Airplanes ?

Hey !

I've just read that :

Q: "How come the travel time by air from South America to New Zealand, via the polar route, is SHORTER than the travel time going North first and then South again?"

A: The airline pilots are guided by their GPS. Remember that satellites do not exist. The replacement data given from pseudolites deliberately throwing distorting all the paths to make it the flights take different times. The curvature of these paths can add or subtract great distances without the overall turning being obvious to someone traveling it.

Since when airline pilots are guided by their GPS ?
As a private pilot, i'm quite aware of how airplane generally use GPS. In fact, GPS is generally only use as a check device (only very recent GPS are certified for being us as a primary nav device).
Their are using generally inertial systems do calculate their position. I guess you will tell me that the calculus behind that are facked...
Even if it's the case, how Lindbergh possibly travel accross the Atlantic in 1927 ? I hardly beleive that he calculates his way to Paris considering the Earth is flat...

Thanks !

He was obviously part of the conspiracy  .

He was obviously part of the conspiracy  .

Is that also true for every single pilot that worked in airline company before, let's say, 1990/5 ? (GPS was introduce in Army in around 1990).

Even if it's the case, how Lindbergh possibly travel accross the Atlantic in 1927 ? I hardly beleive that he calculates his way to Paris considering the Earth is flat...

Thanks !

Lindbergh used dead reckoning relying on his airspeed indicator, his watch and his compass. A compass will indicate north in the flat earth dark energy model as the magnetic field is generated in the same fashion as in the globular earth model.

Quote from: flogart on June 18, 2011, 07:22:23 AM

Even if it's the case, how Lindbergh possibly travel accross the Atlantic in 1927 ? I hardly beleive that he calculates his way to Paris considering the Earth is flat...

Thanks !

Lindbergh used dead reckoning relying on his airspeed indicator, his watch and his compass. A compass will indicate north in the flat earth dark energy model as the magnetic field is generated in the same fashion as in the globular earth model.

Yes, because dark energy was proven when?

I don't think dark energy has been proven and remains theoretical in both flat earth and round earth cosmology.

I don't think dark energy has been proven and remains theoretical in both flat earth and round earth cosmology.

Oh okay, then a compass "should indicate North in the Flat Earth dark energy model in theory." Thanks!

I don't see how dark energy is relevant at all. As to the matter at hand, I would imagine that he was mistaken when he thought he had gone round the Ice wall. I would imagine it gets quite repetitive down there, so I can't blame him.

Quote from: Mrs. Peach on June 18, 2011, 07:51:26 AM

I don't think dark energy has been proven and remains theoretical in both flat earth and round earth cosmology.

Oh okay, then a compass "should indicate North in the Flat Earth dark energy model in theory." Thanks!

Note Mrs Peach's use of the word "model", which renders the changes you made to her statement completely unnecessary.  Thanks!

Quote from: sillyrob on June 18, 2011, 07:57:15 AM

Quote from: Mrs. Peach on June 18, 2011, 07:51:26 AM

I don't think dark energy has been proven and remains theoretical in both flat earth and round earth cosmology.

Oh okay, then a compass "should indicate North in the Flat Earth dark energy model in theory." Thanks!

Note Mrs Peach's use of the word "model", which renders the changes you made to her statement completely unnecessary.  Thanks!

You're right, I shouldn't have even said in theory. I should have said, "...should indicate North in the Flat Earth dark energy model because we all know there is no 'north' on a flat Earth, and this explanation seemed to work because mysterious things like 'dark energy' keep people interested and they assume the person who came up with this model knows what they're talking about." How silly of me to even call it a theory.

You're right, I shouldn't have even said in theory. I should have said, "...should indicate North in the Flat Earth dark energy model because we all know there is no 'north' on a flat Earth, and this explanation seemed to work because mysterious things like 'dark energy' keep people interested and they assume the person who came up with this model knows what they're talking about." How silly of me to even call it a theory.

How could there be no north on a flat earth? East is fairly simple to find if you can remember where the sun is in the morning. Well, north is ninety degrees counterclockwise from east. 

Hey !

I've just read that :

Quote

Q: "How come the travel time by air from South America to New Zealand, via the polar route, is SHORTER than the travel time going North first and then South again?"

A: The airline pilots are guided by their GPS. Remember that satellites do not exist. The replacement data given from pseudolites deliberately throwing distorting all the paths to make it the flights take different times. The curvature of these paths can add or subtract great distances without the overall turning being obvious to someone traveling it.

Since when airline pilots are guided by their GPS ?
As a private pilot, i'm quite aware of how airplane generally use GPS. In fact, GPS is generally only use as a check device (only very recent GPS are certified for being us as a primary nav device).
Their are using generally inertial systems do calculate their position. I guess you will tell me that the calculus behind that are facked...
Even if it's the case, how Lindbergh possibly travel accross the Atlantic in 1927 ? I hardly beleive that he calculates his way to Paris considering the Earth is flat...

Thanks !

It is in the FAQ as many people point out a pilot would notice if his GPS lied to him. The point is GPS is manipulated to give you a signal to make you think earth is round whilst navigating you across a flat earth. If you don't think GPS signals are altered mathematically, have a read about selective availability. This is the Americans admitting that they tamper with it.

NDBs suck, VORs are small range and localised (power restriction) + suffer from all kinds of errors, LORAN is a forerunner for the GPS coverup. INS does not prove a round earth. You don't know what its calculating. Again you just blindly follow the output.

If the earth is flat (and many people here are sure that it is) why wouldn't Lindberg consider the earth to be flat and use that for navigation? He draws a straight line on a flat map of a flat world and hello Paris. If you think it is any more scientific than that, have a look at Douglas "wrong-way" Corrigan.

As a commercial pilot, your being a private pilot does not impress me.

Quote from: sillyrob on June 18, 2011, 10:33:24 AM

You're right, I shouldn't have even said in theory. I should have said, "...should indicate North in the Flat Earth dark energy model because we all know there is no 'north' on a flat Earth, and this explanation seemed to work because mysterious things like 'dark energy' keep people interested and they assume the person who came up with this model knows what they're talking about." How silly of me to even call it a theory.

How could there be no north on a flat earth? East is fairly simple to find if you can remember where the sun is in the morning. Well, north is ninety degrees counterclockwise from east.

Because North is the rim.  The Antarctic continent is really the middle of the Flat Earth - this is much more likely than the empty vast ice floes of the Arctic.  Is is just the North Centric Flat Earthers that incorrectly insist that the North is the Centre.


Berny
Has Spoken

It is in the FAQ as many people point out a pilot would notice if his GPS lied to him. The point is GPS is manipulated to give you a signal to make you think earth is round whilst navigating you across a flat earth. If you don't think GPS signals are altered mathematically, have a read about selective availability. This is the Americans admitting that they tamper with it.

Will Europeans also lie to us when their GPS (they found a new name, i can't remember now) will work ?

NDBs suck, VORs are small range and localised (power restriction) + suffer from all kinds of errors, LORAN is a forerunner for the GPS coverup. INS does not prove a round earth. You don't know what its calculating. Again you just blindly follow the output.

NDBs suck ? Based on what... the fact that we dimanstle them ? I can travel across a state using only one NDB...
VOR, NDBs, what's your point ?
Of course INS can be faked 'easily', but don't you think it includes too much people to be true ?

If the earth is flat (and many people here are sure that it is) why wouldn't Lindberg consider the earth to be flat and use that for navigation? He draws a straight line on a flat map of a flat world and hello Paris. If you think it is any more scientific than that, have a look at Douglas "wrong-way" Corrigan.

As a commercial pilot, your being a private pilot does not impress me.

Why Lindbergh would consider that the earth is flat ?! Why every pilot who travels across the oceans and continents with no navaids would also consider that ?

As a commercial pilot, if you really believe that earth is flat, have (or will) you ever try to follow a route calculated considering a flat-earth ?
What about maps ? Can you explain how to convert 'classicly' projected map to a flat-earth map ?

Will Europeans also lie to us when their GPS (they found a new name, i can't remember now) will work ?

I am European. I assume you are referring to the Galileo satellite navigation system.
The fact they named it after Galileo tells you all you need to know. It reeks of conspiracy. See other threads on Galileo.

NDBs suck ? Based on what... the fact that we dimanstle them ? I can travel across a state using only one NDB...
VOR, NDBs, what's your point ?
Of course INS can be faked 'easily', but don't you think it includes too much people to be true ?

Yes NDBs suck. Most commercial pilots never use one ever because most autopilots won't track them, so pilots usually put in the supposed location of said beacon into the FMS as a way point, and forget about the actual beacon altogether. You might want to be careful going large distances on one NDB.

However, NDB signals are also affected more by atmospheric conditions, mountainous terrain, coastal refraction and electrical storms, particularly at long range.

Why Lindbergh would consider that the earth is flat ?! Why every pilot who travels across the oceans and continents with no navaids would also consider that ?

Why wouldn't he? You fly. When you are in the air, does the earth look flat to you, or like a giant ball? If you want to answer ball you should see your physician about metamorphopsia. It is only logical one would plan as one perceives in the early stages of a new navigational science.

As a commercial pilot, if you really believe that earth is flat, have (or will) you ever try to follow a route calculated considering a flat-earth ?

Suppose you fly North East to a location IRL. Are you continually adjusting your heading enroute to your destination and flying a great circle? Or do you just fly in a straight line on one heading, direct the quickest way? If the answer is straight line direct, the earth is flat and you navigated it using a flat earth technique.

As for maps you are in danger of fragmenting your thread. It is a whole other topic.

Suppose you fly North East to a location IRL.

Problem is your using a Round Earth Map in the first place.  Make up a FE map and then see what happens.


Berny
Thought E/W straight line was covered in http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=48852.0

Berny, as said above maps is a separate topic, stop derailing the thread. And nowhere on any map does it say "This is a round earth map". They could equally be FE maps, accurate depictions of earth. Now GTFO of this thread if you want to talk about maps
Always with the maps. Go make yet another map thread if you like.

Berny, as said above maps is a separate topic, stop derailing the thread. And nowhere on any map does it say "This is a round earth map". They could equally be FE maps, accurate depictions of earth. Now GTFO of this thread if you want to talk about maps
Always with the maps. Go make yet another map thread if you like.

Woah now - this is Flogart's thread not yours - and he has posed that questions as well.  Therefore Maps is completely on topic for this thread unless the creator of said thread specifically said otherwise.  Navigation is pretty tied in with maps?  I know in England there you follow the IFR (I follow Road) rules and its not like you can get lost - but I am sure other pilots use maps.


Berny
Thork needs a hug?

If you are interested on my thoughts about maps use the search function with 'Maps' and '*Thork'. I have no desire to talk about maps again. I joined this thread as it was about 'airplanes'.
As everyone seems to have a stiffy for maps, good day.

And I hate cats.

Quote from: Mrs. Peach on June 18, 2011, 03:25:54 PM

How could there be no north on a flat earth? East is fairly simple to find if you can remember where the sun is in the morning. Well, north is ninety degrees counterclockwise from east.

Because North is the rim.  The Antarctic continent is really the middle of the Flat Earth - this is much more likely than the empty vast ice floes of the Arctic.  Is is just the North Centric Flat Earthers that incorrectly insist that the North is the Centre.


Berny
Has Spoken

It matters not what you choose as your own defintion of 'north,' the word's origins mean 'left,' i.e. when facing east, north is on your left. 

He draws a straight line on a flat map of a flat world and hello Paris.

Based on a projection that assumes a RE?

Quote from: Thork on June 18, 2011, 04:05:31 PM

He draws a straight line on a flat map of a flat world and hello Paris.

Based on a projection that assumes a RE?

So you are led to believe.

Quote from: Geology_Undergrad on June 20, 2011, 09:18:33 AM

Quote from: Thork on June 18, 2011, 04:05:31 PM

He draws a straight line on a flat map of a flat world and hello Paris.

Based on a projection that assumes a RE?

So you are led to believe.

If your going to make a flippant comment atleast back it up.