America is the first Democracy!

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EnglshGentleman

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America is the first Democracy!
« on: June 17, 2011, 11:16:39 PM »
That is what a person I know on facebook was spouting because Glenn Beck said that there has never been a government in the history of the world in which the people voted for what their leaders or public works were until the US came along.

FU CONSERVATIVE MEDIA!!!!!!!




« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 10:00:34 AM by EnglshGentleman »

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sillyrob

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 11:26:44 PM »
You should remove that person you know on Facebook to prevent further FUing.

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Parsifal

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2011, 12:35:59 AM »
Can you prove otherwise?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2011, 12:37:04 AM »
America is not a democracy.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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Johannes

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2011, 01:41:51 AM »
Have you ever personally observed a democracy older than the United States?

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Lorddave

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2011, 03:19:35 AM »
Have you ever personally observed a democracy older than the United States?
Have you ever personally observed a nation that practiced actual democracy?
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Hazbollah

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2011, 03:35:21 AM »
Have you ever personally observed a democracy older than the United States?
Yes. I happen to live in one.
Always check your tackle- Caerphilly school of Health. If I see an innuendo in my post, I'll be sure to whip it out.

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Lorddave

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2011, 03:58:13 AM »
Have you ever personally observed a democracy older than the United States?
Yes. I happen to live in one.
Impossible.

As far as I know, no country is a true democracy.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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spanner34.5

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2011, 05:08:48 AM »
My I.Q. is 85. Or was it 58?

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Hazbollah

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2011, 07:10:35 AM »
Have you ever personally observed a democracy older than the United States?
Yes. I happen to live in one.
Impossible.

As far as I know, no country is a true democracy.
Yes, but I was using the definition of democracy that is so often thrown around by politicians.
Always check your tackle- Caerphilly school of Health. If I see an innuendo in my post, I'll be sure to whip it out.

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2011, 10:00:11 AM »
Have you ever personally observed a democracy older than the United States?

Johannes is terrible.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2011, 10:01:46 AM »
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Hazbollah

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2011, 10:05:54 AM »
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Actually, it roughly means 'the people rule'. As it is politicians (who are often totally out of touch of the people) rule, it isn't.
Always check your tackle- Caerphilly school of Health. If I see an innuendo in my post, I'll be sure to whip it out.

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2011, 10:15:11 AM »
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Actually, it roughly means 'the people rule'. As it is politicians (who are often totally out of touch of the people) rule, it isn't.

And Hazbollah took the bait.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2011, 10:17:09 AM »
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Actually, it roughly means 'the people rule'. As it is politicians (who are often totally out of touch of the people) rule, it isn't.

Actually, a more literal translation is "rule of the people".  Not that it changes your argument, but your argument is entirely irrelevant to the point I made anyway.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Hazbollah

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2011, 10:26:53 AM »
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Actually, it roughly means 'the people rule'. As it is politicians (who are often totally out of touch of the people) rule, America  isn't a true democracy.

Actually, a more literal translation is "rule of the people".  Not that it changes your argument, but your argument is entirely irrelevant to the point I made anyway.
Not really irrelevant.  Clarified the quote, there. I fail to see how politicians misusing the word to justify creating puppet governments in resource-rich nations is an evolution of the  word.
Always check your tackle- Caerphilly school of Health. If I see an innuendo in my post, I'll be sure to whip it out.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2011, 10:39:27 AM »
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Actually, it roughly means 'the people rule'. As it is politicians (who are often totally out of touch of the people) rule, America  isn't a true democracy.

Actually, a more literal translation is "rule of the people".  Not that it changes your argument, but your argument is entirely irrelevant to the point I made anyway.
Not really irrelevant.  Clarified the quote, there. I fail to see how politicians misusing the word to justify creating puppet governments in resource-rich nations is an evolution of the  word.

Because the meaning of the word has literally changed over time.  And even in ancient Greece, where the word originated, the word only applied to a select group of people making the decisions, which isn't all that far from what we have now.  The US is not a pure democracy, obviously, but the essential elements of its government are mostly democratic.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2011, 02:04:04 PM »
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Actually, it roughly means 'the people rule'. As it is politicians (who are often totally out of touch of the people) rule, America  isn't a true democracy.

Actually, a more literal translation is "rule of the people".  Not that it changes your argument, but your argument is entirely irrelevant to the point I made anyway.
Not really irrelevant.  Clarified the quote, there. I fail to see how politicians misusing the word to justify creating puppet governments in resource-rich nations is an evolution of the  word.

Because the meaning of the word has literally changed over time.  And even in ancient Greece, where the word originated, the word only applied to a select group of people making the decisions, which isn't all that far from what we have now.  The US is not a pure democracy, obviously, but the essential elements of its government are mostly democratic.

Really? I thought we were a Federal Republic. Just becaust there are some democratic qualities of it, does not mean the US is a democracy. This is like claiming ancient Sparta was a monarchy.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2011, 02:13:56 PM »
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Actually, it roughly means 'the people rule'. As it is politicians (who are often totally out of touch of the people) rule, America  isn't a true democracy.

Actually, a more literal translation is "rule of the people".  Not that it changes your argument, but your argument is entirely irrelevant to the point I made anyway.
Not really irrelevant.  Clarified the quote, there. I fail to see how politicians misusing the word to justify creating puppet governments in resource-rich nations is an evolution of the  word.

Because the meaning of the word has literally changed over time.  And even in ancient Greece, where the word originated, the word only applied to a select group of people making the decisions, which isn't all that far from what we have now.  The US is not a pure democracy, obviously, but the essential elements of its government are mostly democratic.

Really? I thought we were a Federal Republic. Just becaust there are some democratic qualities of it, does not mean the US is a democracy. This is like claiming ancient Sparta was a monarchy.

In a representative democracy, the people elect officials to make the laws.  In the US, the people elect officials to make the laws.  Sounds like a match to me.  The US can be both a federal republic and a democracy.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Lorddave

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2011, 02:35:37 PM »
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Actually, it roughly means 'the people rule'. As it is politicians (who are often totally out of touch of the people) rule, America  isn't a true democracy.

Actually, a more literal translation is "rule of the people".  Not that it changes your argument, but your argument is entirely irrelevant to the point I made anyway.
Not really irrelevant.  Clarified the quote, there. I fail to see how politicians misusing the word to justify creating puppet governments in resource-rich nations is an evolution of the  word.

Because the meaning of the word has literally changed over time.  And even in ancient Greece, where the word originated, the word only applied to a select group of people making the decisions, which isn't all that far from what we have now.  The US is not a pure democracy, obviously, but the essential elements of its government are mostly democratic.

Really? I thought we were a Federal Republic. Just becaust there are some democratic qualities of it, does not mean the US is a democracy. This is like claiming ancient Sparta was a monarchy.

In a representative democracy, the people elect officials to make the laws.  In the US, the people elect officials to make the laws.  Sounds like a match to me.  The US can be both a federal republic and a democracy.
According to a vocal minority of the US population, it can also be socialist.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2011, 03:19:06 PM »
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Actually, it roughly means 'the people rule'. As it is politicians (who are often totally out of touch of the people) rule, America  isn't a true democracy.

Actually, a more literal translation is "rule of the people".  Not that it changes your argument, but your argument is entirely irrelevant to the point I made anyway.
Not really irrelevant.  Clarified the quote, there. I fail to see how politicians misusing the word to justify creating puppet governments in resource-rich nations is an evolution of the  word.

Because the meaning of the word has literally changed over time.  And even in ancient Greece, where the word originated, the word only applied to a select group of people making the decisions, which isn't all that far from what we have now.  The US is not a pure democracy, obviously, but the essential elements of its government are mostly democratic.

Really? I thought we were a Federal Republic. Just becaust there are some democratic qualities of it, does not mean the US is a democracy. This is like claiming ancient Sparta was a monarchy.

In a representative democracy, the people elect officials to make the laws.  In the US, the people elect officials to make the laws.  Sounds like a match to me.  The US can be both a federal republic and a democracy.
According to a vocal minority of the US population, it can also be socialist.

Yes, a democratic government can have a socialist economy, but I don't see how that's relevant. ???
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2011, 04:10:02 PM »
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Actually, it roughly means 'the people rule'. As it is politicians (who are often totally out of touch of the people) rule, America  isn't a true democracy.

Actually, a more literal translation is "rule of the people".  Not that it changes your argument, but your argument is entirely irrelevant to the point I made anyway.
Not really irrelevant.  Clarified the quote, there. I fail to see how politicians misusing the word to justify creating puppet governments in resource-rich nations is an evolution of the  word.

Because the meaning of the word has literally changed over time.  And even in ancient Greece, where the word originated, the word only applied to a select group of people making the decisions, which isn't all that far from what we have now.  The US is not a pure democracy, obviously, but the essential elements of its government are mostly democratic.

Really? I thought we were a Federal Republic. Just becaust there are some democratic qualities of it, does not mean the US is a democracy. This is like claiming ancient Sparta was a monarchy.

In a representative democracy, the people elect officials to make the laws.  In the US, the people elect officials to make the laws.  Sounds like a match to me.  The US can be both a federal republic and a democracy.

A representative democracy is not a true democracy just like an oligarchy is not a monarchy.

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Tausami

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2011, 08:54:40 PM »
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Actually, it roughly means 'the people rule'. As it is politicians (who are often totally out of touch of the people) rule, America  isn't a true democracy.

Actually, a more literal translation is "rule of the people".  Not that it changes your argument, but your argument is entirely irrelevant to the point I made anyway.
Not really irrelevant.  Clarified the quote, there. I fail to see how politicians misusing the word to justify creating puppet governments in resource-rich nations is an evolution of the  word.

Because the meaning of the word has literally changed over time.  And even in ancient Greece, where the word originated, the word only applied to a select group of people making the decisions, which isn't all that far from what we have now.  The US is not a pure democracy, obviously, but the essential elements of its government are mostly democratic.

Really? I thought we were a Federal Republic. Just becaust there are some democratic qualities of it, does not mean the US is a democracy. This is like claiming ancient Sparta was a monarchy.

In a representative democracy, the people elect officials to make the laws.  In the US, the people elect officials to make the laws.  Sounds like a match to me.  The US can be both a federal republic and a democracy.
According to a vocal minority of the US population, it can also be socialist.

Yes, a democratic government can have a socialist economy, but I don't see how that's relevant. ???

I think he means communist, by which he actually means Stalinist dictatorship.

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Hazbollah

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2011, 02:16:59 AM »
 
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Actually, it roughly means 'the people rule'. As it is politicians (who are often totally out of touch of the people) rule, America  isn't a true democracy.

Actually, a more literal translation is "rule of the people".  Not that it changes your argument, but your argument is entirely irrelevant to the point I made anyway.
Not really irrelevant.  Clarified the quote, there. I fail to see how politicians misusing the word to justify creating puppet governments in resource-rich nations is an evolution of the  word.

Because the meaning of the word has literally changed over time.  And even in ancient Greece, where the word originated, the word only applied to a select group of people making the decisions, which isn't all that far from what we have now.  The US is not a pure democracy, obviously, but the essential elements of its government are mostly democratic.
I thought the Founding Fathers specifically stated that it was not to be a democracy.
Always check your tackle- Caerphilly school of Health. If I see an innuendo in my post, I'll be sure to whip it out.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2011, 03:12:25 AM »
In a way the meaning of the word hasn't changed. It has always meant different things to different people, and the old Greek definitions we have inherited from Plato and Aristotle were largely interpretations of a very unique form of democracy in a very unique time and place.


Any form of government in which power is fundamentally derived from the people is a form of democracy.
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spanner34.5

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2011, 03:34:39 AM »
My I.Q. is 85. Or was it 58?

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Chrissetti II

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2011, 09:40:33 AM »
Ooh, I thought Iceland had the oldest continuous parliament in the world? Maybe one day you've saved me from a QI General Ignorance trap.

And anyway, arguing about the original meaning of 'democracy' serves as much good as arguing about the root of 'homophobia' with CR90; the definition has changed over time.

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hoppy

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2011, 09:30:42 AM »
America is a true democracy.  Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how the definitions of words evolve over time.
Actually, it roughly means 'the people rule'. As it is politicians (who are often totally out of touch of the people) rule, America  isn't a true democracy.

Actually, a more literal translation is "rule of the people".  Not that it changes your argument, but your argument is entirely irrelevant to the point I made anyway.
Not really irrelevant.  Clarified the quote, there. I fail to see how politicians misusing the word to justify creating puppet governments in resource-rich nations is an evolution of the  word.

Because the meaning of the word has literally changed over time.  And even in ancient Greece, where the word originated, the word only applied to a select group of people making the decisions, which isn't all that far from what we have now.  The US is not a pure democracy, obviously, but the essential elements of its government are mostly democratic.

Really? I thought we were a Federal Republic. Just becaust there are some democratic qualities of it, does not mean the US is a democracy. This is like claiming ancient Sparta was a monarchy.
EG is right on this. Democracy is mob rule.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2011, 06:57:28 PM »
I still disagree.  As was pointed out earlier, the word literally means "rule by the people", and that is a pretty broad definition.  I think there's plenty of reason for America to be considered a democracy.  Besides, if you're going to argue that it's not a democracy because it's not a "true" democracy, then you have to allow that the notion of a "true" democracy is a figment of your imagination, as it has never actually existed, and is in fact completely impractical.

Also, to use a different form of government as an analogy: neither the Soviet Union nor China did or does adhere to Marx's and Engels' definition of "communism", yet both countries are considered to be communist.

Inb4 the Soviet Union wasn't really communist.  It's moot, because words are defined as the people define them, and popular opinion always wins out.  Just as the word "communism" evolved over time to include regimes like the Soviet Union's and China's, the word "democracy" has evolved to include governments like the US's.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: America is the first Democracy!
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2011, 07:38:19 PM »
The main difference between a democracy and a republic is that a republic is ruled by laws first, people second.  The people get to vote on their laws, however the supreme court can strike them down saying that this particular law that was passed by the representatives is illegal.  I would say America is primarily a republic, however we do have many democratic features.