Operation Fast and Furious

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17 November

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2011, 03:54:14 PM »
That link shows the US government supplying the Mexican mafia which means Chapo Guzman is yet another american created terrorist.

The Mexican press generally seems far better informed and aware about this than the United States.

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2011, 04:24:58 PM »
I agree that U.S. press coverage has been really low key about something they should be screaming to high heaven.  This stinks from beginning to whatever end it comes to.  I hope that's not just some whimper cause this is awful.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2011, 04:28:21 PM »
Agreed...they should have just given them to me. 

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Lorddave

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2011, 03:44:10 AM »
That link shows the US government supplying the Mexican mafia which means Chapo Guzman is yet another american created terrorist.

The Mexican press generally seems far better informed and aware about this than the United States.

1. Why would they want drug gangs in Mexico when it directly affects the border states?
2. Why would they want to keep drugs around when stopping them would be a major win for the "war on drugs"?
3. Giving a known criminal something they want for the purpose of discovering where it goes isn't uncommon.  Like if I wanted to find out(roughly) where you live I'd bait you into going to a website that allowed me to track your packets back to your ISP.
Or maybe I'd plant some fake money at a bank, let someone rob it, and track the money.

Seriously, you're jumping to some major conclusions.  Especially since it was published.  If the Mexican drug gangs were a US run terrorist cell, why would we publicly admit to giving them guns?  Or are you one of those "I know that they know that I know that they know...." kind of people?
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Chrissetti II

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2011, 09:41:51 AM »
Operation: Fast and furious.

They're spying on my bedroom!  :o

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 10:05:28 AM »
Lol.

Looks like Mr. Kenneth Melson is about to be thrown under the bus.  There are  more plausible but equally nefarious scheme scenarios other than 17 November's that are being thrown around.  Time and the hearings may bring them to light.  Whatever, the plan was about as stupid as they get.

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hoppy

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2011, 12:56:18 PM »
That link shows the US government supplying the Mexican mafia which means Chapo Guzman is yet another american created terrorist.

The Mexican press generally seems far better informed and aware about this than the United States.

1. Why would they want drug gangs in Mexico when it directly affects the border states?
2. Why would they want to keep drugs around when stopping them would be a major win for the "war on drugs"?
3. Giving a known criminal something they want for the purpose of discovering where it goes isn't uncommon.  Like if I wanted to find out(roughly) where you live I'd bait you into going to a website that allowed me to track your packets back to your ISP.
Or maybe I'd plant some fake money at a bank, let someone rob it, and track the money.

Seriously, you're jumping to some major conclusions.  Especially since it was published.  If the Mexican drug gangs were a US run terrorist cell, why would we publicly admit to giving them guns?  Or are you one of those "I know that they know that I know that they know...." kind of people?
Dave, you just refuse to believe that the gov't may not be looking out for your good.
 How many people died from this?  how many drugs got in this country?........How many drug dealers did they catch? how many terrorist's?
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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2011, 02:12:16 AM »
how many terrorist's 'what' did they catch?

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Robbyj

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2011, 02:43:23 AM »
It's a pretty safe bet that these cartels would acquire the weapons they desire with or without the aforementioned scenario.  The end result seems somewhat inconsequential.  It is also strange they mention the Tucson shooting considering the weapon used was purchased at a local sporting goods store.  I thought CNN was above this type of blatant fear mongering, but apparently not. 
Why justify an illegitimate attack with a legitimate response?

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hoppy

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2011, 05:02:17 AM »
It's a pretty safe bet that these cartels would acquire the weapons they desire with or without the aforementioned scenario.  The end result seems somewhat inconsequential.  It is also strange they mention the Tucson shooting considering the weapon used was purchased at a local sporting goods store.  I thought CNN was above this type of blatant fear mongering, but apparently not.
The results were not inconsequential as a border patrol agent was killed, and there were other preventable deaths.
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theonlydann

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2011, 05:15:38 AM »
Can you prove they were preventable deaths? That without these specific guns, those people would still be alive? Robby is right. This was a ridiculous plot by our operatives, but i agree that they would have gotten the guns anyhow. 

Still a damn shame

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hoppy

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2011, 05:39:22 AM »
Can you prove they were preventable deaths? That without these specific guns, those people would still be alive? Robby is right. This was a ridiculous plot by our operatives, but i agree that they would have gotten the guns anyhow. 

Still a damn shame
Article in OP states preventable deaths. We should be protecting the border not shipping guns south to the mafia.
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Robbyj

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 06:17:55 AM »
Article in OP states preventable deaths.

You are stating opinion as if it is fact.  How do you believe this was preventable?
Why justify an illegitimate attack with a legitimate response?

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hoppy

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 07:20:46 AM »
Article in OP states preventable deaths.

You are stating opinion as if it is fact.  How do you believe this was preventable?
The article in OP said it.

"The idea was that once the weapons in Mexico were traced back to the straw purchasers, the entire arms smuggling network could be brought down. Instead, the report argues, letting the weapons slip into the wrong hands was a deadly miscalculation that resulted in preventable deaths, including that of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry."

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theonlydann

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2011, 07:29:38 AM »
And how does that opinion prove that those deaths would not have occurred? All that was preventable was that THOSE guns would not have killed them. It still could have been other guns. Last i checked, a lack of weapons was not hindering crime in Mexico.

Also, stupid stupid plan and stupid name for the plan.

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hoppy

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2011, 07:34:36 AM »
And how does that opinion prove that those deaths would not have occurred? All that was preventable was that THOSE guns would not have killed them. It still could have been other guns. Last i checked, a lack of weapons was not hindering crime in Mexico.

Also, stupid stupid plan and stupid name for the plan.
The point is, it was a stupid plan from law enforcement side. Good plan if you want to give someone guns.
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theonlydann

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2011, 07:40:00 AM »
Yes. The point is my tax dollars went towards allowing Mexican drug cartels to be armed. YAY!

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2011, 11:32:52 AM »
CBS News is to be commended on following and digging around on this and I don't even like CBS News.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2011, 06:42:59 AM »
Yes. The point is my tax dollars went towards allowing Mexican drug cartels to be armed. YAY!

I blame Obama.


This rabbit hole is getting deeper and deeper.

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General Disarray

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2011, 08:07:01 AM »
I blame Obama.

And absolutely no one was surprised.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2011, 08:39:19 AM »
I blame Obama.

And absolutely no one was surprised.

Your governor isn't looking so good anymore. 

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General Disarray

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2011, 09:11:25 AM »
Your governor isn't looking so good anymore.

His recent debate performance:

You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2011, 10:50:21 AM »
The ATF was known as 'damned revenuers,'  now they're just stupid revenuers.  Seriously though, they're out of control.

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Ski

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2011, 11:02:44 AM »
Well, I blame Obama in the sense that he is the Chief Executive and these things happened under his watch. He is, in that sense, responsible. I don't know of any information linking him directly to this fiasco.
Someone should be facing jail time. And it should be someone at the national level, not at a local bureau. I imagine a large civil suit against the government will follow when the dust settles.

For those saying they would have gotten arms anyway: Can the administration now distribute illicit drugs to the public? When people are killed or harmed by those under the influence, would not the government be liable? I suspect if people were dying in your neighborhood, your tune would change.

And lest I sound like a partisan hack (I'm a libertarian, for the record), if it is discovered that Operation Wide Receiver was, in effect, the same-type operation as Fast and Furious then the appropriate people in the Bush administration should be drug into court as well.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2011, 11:09:58 AM »
I agree.  This isn't just about poor judgment; the (alleged) actions are criminal.  I suspect some people think they're above the law and it appears to be systemic in that organization.  In any event, it should all face the light of day.  I support the call for a special prosecutor and let the chips fall.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2011, 11:19:24 AM »
Yeah, it's nice to imagine what it would be like in a fantasy world where politicians and high-level bureaucrats were held accountable for the things they ordered their people to do.

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2011, 11:31:50 AM »
It doesn't have to be a fantasy. 

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Ski

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2011, 04:59:09 PM »
Indeed. Media silence (and I dare include social-media these days) is what helps prevent accountability.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Lorddave

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Re: Operation Fast and Furious
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2011, 06:34:26 PM »
I don't see what the big deal is.

If you wanna track bears you put out real rabbit meat, not imitation meat.
If you wanna track drug dealers, you give them traceable drugs.
If you wanna track bank robbers, you put serial numbers on the money and track that.

And if you wanna track people with guns?  You give them guns. 

The only thing wrong is that it failed.  The ones you NEVER hear about are the ones that succeed.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.