Gender-neutral third person pronouns.

We have one in English; it's called it. But for some reason people have a problem applying it to people. Why? And if there is a legitimate reason, should they be accepted as an adequate alternative?

I reckon English will evolve to accept 'they' as the preferred pronoun whenever gender is not stated. This will prevent, once and for all, bias towards one gendered pronoun over another.

I brought this up because I'm sort of learning Esperanto in my free time, and I noticed that most sources define ĝi as it, and as an English speaker, I felt that there was a problem until I realized that is was merely my bias in this language carrying over. There's no reason that ĝi has to apply to non-people only, really.

I brought this up because I'm sort of learning Esperanto in my free time

Have you thought of maybe, I don't know, talking to girls instead?

Interesting. Is it an easy language to learn?

Interesting. Is it an easy language to learn?

Yes, but you need to pay subscription fees.

Interesting. Is it an easy language to learn?

The hardest thing is vocabulary. The grammar is extremely regular. When you'd actually use it, I don't know, since there aren't that many speakers.

What's wrong with "one"?

What's wrong with "one"?

It sounds overly formal. Plus, it doesn't always work.

"When the sales agent calls, tell _____ to come by the office."

One would not work here.

Quote from: Parsifal on April 15, 2011, 08:51:46 PM

What's wrong with "one"?

It sounds overly formal. Plus, it doesn't always work.

"When the sales agent calls, tell _____ to come by the office."

One would not work here.

Nor would "it", unless you're a complete prick.

Quote from: fluffycornsnake on April 15, 2011, 06:31:14 PM

Interesting. Is it an easy language to learn?

The hardest thing is vocabulary. The grammar is extremely regular. When you'd actually use it, I don't know, since there aren't that many speakers.

Are you using an online resource? I'd like to learn it as well at some point.

Quote from: Parsifal on April 15, 2011, 08:51:46 PM

What's wrong with "one"?

It sounds overly formal. Plus, it doesn't always work.

"When the sales agent calls, tell _____ to come by the office."

One would not work here.

But "them" would.

I quite like the Burgoyne gender neutral pronouns from New Frontier

He/She = S/he
Him/Her= Hir
His/Hers= Hish

Quote from: Trekky0623 on April 16, 2011, 01:23:12 AM

Quote from: Parsifal on April 15, 2011, 08:51:46 PM

What's wrong with "one"?

It sounds overly formal. Plus, it doesn't always work.

"When the sales agent calls, tell _____ to come by the office."

One would not work here.

But "them" would.

No it wouldn't. Them = More than one person.  English lacks a gender neutral term referring to a person ("it" does not refer to a person), though according to a friend, in English if the gender is not apparent the correct way is to default to the masculine.  Similar to what they do in Spanish with "ellos".  In high school English I was told to write he/she, which is not correct.

Of course in the modern age with emphasis on equality many are wanting the default changed.

Quote from: markjo on April 16, 2011, 11:45:50 AM

Quote from: Trekky0623 on April 16, 2011, 01:23:12 AM

Quote from: Parsifal on April 15, 2011, 08:51:46 PM

What's wrong with "one"?

It sounds overly formal. Plus, it doesn't always work.

"When the sales agent calls, tell _____ to come by the office."

One would not work here.

But "them" would.

No it wouldn't. Them = More than one person.  English lacks a gender neutral term referring to a person ("it" does not refer to a person), though according to a friend, in English if the gender is not apparent the correct way is to default to the masculine.  Similar to what they do in Spanish with "ellos".  In high school English I was told to write he/she, which is not correct.

Of course in the modern age with emphasis on equality many are wanting the default changed.

In academia, the standard is to switch between pronouns for each separate reference. It's not unheard of to be penalised essay marks for defaulting to the masculine.

He/She = S/he
Him/Her= Hir
His/Hers= Hish

Those have been used by various LGBT groups for a good 60 years now.

Quote from: Chris Spaghetti on April 16, 2011, 12:05:48 PM

He/She = S/he
Him/Her= Hir
His/Hers= Hish

Those have been used by various LGBT groups for a good 60 years now.

I did not know that. This gives even more support to use these pronouns rather than just a Star Trek novel.

So this would be a grammatically correct sentence?

"They walked into the room and felt themself fill with a dread which reached deep into their soul?"

No. The correct usage is "themselves."

No. The correct usage is "themselves."

Surely you wouldn't pluralise it for a singular title?

Surely you wouldn't use "they" for a singular title?

I wouldn't bu tif 'they' is being used as a singular non-gender-specific third-person pronoun, as the dinosaurs contended, then 'themself' would surely be more appropriate than 'themselves?'

Why? The proper personal pronoun derivative of "they" is "themselves." If you can use one multiple pronoun for a singular noun, why can't you use another?