Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!

  • 24 Replies
  • 10978 Views
?

Demouse

  • 323
  • Mods don't like my haiku
Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« on: April 11, 2011, 05:51:12 AM »
A Bouguer plate is an infinite, flat plate, used as a model in gravity and gravity anomaly computations.

Gravity outside the plate is perpendicular to the plate, towards it, with magnitude 2?G times the mass per unit area, where G = 6.67 × 10?11 N m² kg?2, hence we have 4.191 × 10?10 N m² kg?2 times the mass per unit area.

Using 1 Gal = 0.01 m/s² we get 4.191 × 10?5 mGal m² kg?1 times the mass per unit area.

For mean rock density (2.67 g/cm³) this gives 0.1119 mGal/m.

This is independent of the distance to the plate. (This can be proven most simply with Gauss's law for gravity, but can also be proven directly with Newton's law of gravity.)



Sooo, using mean rock density we get .1119 mGal per meter of thickness

the earth's gravity is 983 000 mGal

983 000 / 0.1119 = 8784629

So using the infinite earth model the earth is 9000 km thick.



Gravity should be uniform regardless of height on an infinite plane, so finding different values for gravity at the same location but differing heights would disprove infinite earth theory.

Can this be shown to be true or false?

Don't bring in FE theories other than those which support an infinite plane to this thread please.


____________________________________________

Oh Skycake.... Why are you so delicious?


*

Parsifal

  • Official Member
  • 36118
  • Bendy Light specialist
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2011, 06:52:59 AM »
Gravity should be uniform regardless of height on an infinite plane, so finding different values for gravity at the same location but differing heights would disprove infinite earth theory.

Can this be shown to be true or false?

It can be shown to be false, because the Earth's surface is not perfectly flat.

To see why, consider the extreme case whereby one compares the inside of a cave to the top of the cave. When inside the cave, the rock above one would have an upward gravitational influence, reducing the overall gravitational field strength. When on top of the cave, that same rock would be below one, and thus would increase the overall gravitational field strength.

Less extreme cases include valleys, where the mountains on either side would have a different effect on the gravitational field depending on altitude.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

?

Oracle

  • 633
  • RE'er with an open, but critical, mind.
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2011, 12:54:02 PM »
Gravity should be uniform regardless of height on an infinite plane, so finding different values for gravity at the same location but differing heights would disprove infinite earth theory.

Can this be shown to be true or false?

It can be shown to be false, because the Earth's surface is not perfectly flat.

To see why, consider the extreme case whereby one compares the inside of a cave to the top of the cave. When inside the cave, the rock above one would have an upward gravitational influence, reducing the overall gravitational field strength. When on top of the cave, that same rock would be below one, and thus would increase the overall gravitational field strength.

Less extreme cases include valleys, where the mountains on either side would have a different effect on the gravitational field depending on altitude.

But you might be able to find a location that does not have too many irregularities and is flat enough to make a reasonable determination, such as the plains in the mid-west US states, or the tundra in northern Alaska, or even over open sea.  the challenge then becomes achieving a reasonable height above this practically flat surface in order to take accurate gravitational measurements.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9549
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2011, 01:29:14 PM »
Gravity should be uniform regardless of height on an infinite plane, so finding different values for gravity at the same location but differing heights would disprove infinite earth theory.

I do not see why this should be true. The Earth is only infinite horizontally, not vertically.

?

Oracle

  • 633
  • RE'er with an open, but critical, mind.
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2011, 01:42:44 PM »
Gravity should be uniform regardless of height on an infinite plane, so finding different values for gravity at the same location but differing heights would disprove infinite earth theory.

I do not see why this should be true. The Earth is only infinite horizontally, not vertically.

A Bouguer plate is infinite horizontally only, it has a finite vertical thickness, otherwise gravity would be infinite if it were not.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9549
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2011, 03:04:03 PM »
Gravity should be uniform regardless of height on an infinite plane, so finding different values for gravity at the same location but differing heights would disprove infinite earth theory.

I do not see why this should be true. The Earth is only infinite horizontally, not vertically.

A Bouguer plate is infinite horizontally only, it has a finite vertical thickness, otherwise gravity would be infinite if it were not.

Ya, we agree on this. I am confused at the assertion that gravity must be uniform vertically. Is he assuming the Earth is perfectly flat?  ???

?

Vongeo

  • Official Member
  • 6004
  • I don't get it either.
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2011, 03:25:32 PM »
I'm no Maff guy, but would it be affected at all if their are holes in the plane?
Vongeo is a wanker, he wears a wanker hat; he always smells like urine and he thinks the Earth is flat.

No longer is this sentence is cut in half. Jekra!

?

Oracle

  • 633
  • RE'er with an open, but critical, mind.
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2011, 05:16:01 PM »
Gravity should be uniform regardless of height on an infinite plane, so finding different values for gravity at the same location but differing heights would disprove infinite earth theory.

I do not see why this should be true. The Earth is only infinite horizontally, not vertically.

A Bouguer plate is infinite horizontally only, it has a finite vertical thickness, otherwise gravity would be infinite if it were not.

Ya, we agree on this. I am confused at the assertion that gravity must be uniform vertically. Is he assuming the Earth is perfectly flat?  ???

A Bouguer plate is theoretically perfectly flat, and you would have to allow for some anomalies due to terrain and varying landscape... hence the reason for trying to find as uniform a location as possible for testing purposes.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9549
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2011, 05:23:58 PM »
Gravity should be uniform regardless of height on an infinite plane, so finding different values for gravity at the same location but differing heights would disprove infinite earth theory.

I do not see why this should be true. The Earth is only infinite horizontally, not vertically.

A Bouguer plate is infinite horizontally only, it has a finite vertical thickness, otherwise gravity would be infinite if it were not.

Ya, we agree on this. I am confused at the assertion that gravity must be uniform vertically. Is he assuming the Earth is perfectly flat?  ???

A Bouguer plate is theoretically perfectly flat, and you would have to allow for some anomalies due to terrain and varying landscape... hence the reason for trying to find as uniform a location as possible for testing purposes.

Oh ok. I was confused why he would use something that is supposed to be flat for something that isn't.

So he is saying like, find a really huge flat plain like in the Midwestern United States, and test the gravity in the air, and on the ground?

?

Oracle

  • 633
  • RE'er with an open, but critical, mind.
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2011, 05:35:29 PM »
Gravity should be uniform regardless of height on an infinite plane, so finding different values for gravity at the same location but differing heights would disprove infinite earth theory.

I do not see why this should be true. The Earth is only infinite horizontally, not vertically.

A Bouguer plate is infinite horizontally only, it has a finite vertical thickness, otherwise gravity would be infinite if it were not.

Ya, we agree on this. I am confused at the assertion that gravity must be uniform vertically. Is he assuming the Earth is perfectly flat?  ???

A Bouguer plate is theoretically perfectly flat, and you would have to allow for some anomalies due to terrain and varying landscape... hence the reason for trying to find as uniform a location as possible for testing purposes.

Oh ok. I was confused why he would use something that is supposed to be flat for something that isn't.

So he is saying like, find a really huge flat plain like in the Midwestern United States, and test the gravity in the air, and on the ground?

Basically, if the G experienced at a very high altitude is significantly different than the G experienced at ground level, then it would be evidence that the earth may not be an infinite plane.  The further out you can go for testing, the more accurate the results should be.

Of course, since the earth is not perfectly flat and uniform density... it would be hard to make a conclusive determination.

?

Demouse

  • 323
  • Mods don't like my haiku
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2011, 06:31:53 PM »


Basically, if the G experienced at a very high altitude is significantly different than the G experienced at ground level, then it would be evidence that the earth may not be an infinite plane.  The further out you can go for testing, the more accurate the results should be.

Of course, since the earth is not perfectly flat and uniform density... it would be hard to make a conclusive determination.

If there were significant differences due to the thickness of the earth at that particular point then it would show ont he ground as much as the air.

The furthur out you got from the earth gravity would be to the average.



If you measured it from a place which has particularly LOW gravity at sea level then you would expect G to rise as you got higher into the sky were the earth an infine plane.


____________________________________________

Oh Skycake.... Why are you so delicious?


*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9549
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2011, 06:34:49 PM »
If you measured it from a place which has particularly LOW gravity at sea level then you would expect G to rise as you got higher into the sky were the earth an infine plane.

Why would you expect G to rise higher?

?

Demouse

  • 323
  • Mods don't like my haiku
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2011, 06:38:00 PM »
If you measured it from a place which has particularly LOW gravity at sea level then you would expect G to rise as you got higher into the sky were the earth an infine plane.

Why would you expect G to rise higher?

Because an infinite plane causes gravitational forces equally at all points aboive it regardless of distance.


It's to do with gravitational vectors.


This is independent of the distance to the plate. (This can be proven most simply with Gauss's law for gravity, but can also be proven directly with Newton's law of gravity.)



____________________________________________

Oh Skycake.... Why are you so delicious?


*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9549
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2011, 06:46:08 PM »
If you measured it from a place which has particularly LOW gravity at sea level then you would expect G to rise as you got higher into the sky were the earth an infine plane.

Why would you expect G to rise higher?

Because an infinite plane causes gravitational forces equally at all points aboive it regardless of distance.

An infinite Earth causes gravitational forces equally at all points along one plane, not all.

?

Demouse

  • 323
  • Mods don't like my haiku
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2011, 06:55:13 PM »
If you measured it from a place which has particularly LOW gravity at sea level then you would expect G to rise as you got higher into the sky were the earth an infine plane.

Why would you expect G to rise higher?

Because an infinite plane causes gravitational forces equally at all points aboive it regardless of distance.

An infinite Earth causes gravitational forces equally at all points along one plane, not all.

Did you read what I posted?


Infinite earth supports gravitation as per newtons laws of gravity.

Newtons laws of gravity prove Gauss's laws of gravity.


An infinite disc exerts equal force in a uniform direction on all objects regardless of distance from that disc.

Infinite theory states the earth is an infinite disc


ERGO, according to infinite theory the earth should exert equal force on all objects regardless of distance to it.



The closer you are to the plane the more you are affected by the ground underneath you, and less by the ground to the sides due to horizontal vectors cancelling each other out. ERGO, the closer you are to the earth the more you are affected by the flaws of the nearby ground.


If you start at a place with flaws that cause particularly low gravity at sea level and then start to move away from the earth, gravity will INCREASE for you as G increses up from the minim up to the average.


____________________________________________

Oh Skycake.... Why are you so delicious?


?

Oracle

  • 633
  • RE'er with an open, but critical, mind.
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2011, 07:07:02 PM »
If you measured it from a place which has particularly LOW gravity at sea level then you would expect G to rise as you got higher into the sky were the earth an infine plane.

Why would you expect G to rise higher?

Because if you started at sea-level then some of the mass due to land and mountains above sea level would not start contributing to your total downward gravitational pull until you rose above them.

Assume a flat infinite plane with a flat water surface.  Now this would assume an almost perfect Bouguer plate scenario, such that G would be constant no matter how high you were off the surface.

Now add landmass above sea level.  While you are below this mass, it would negate some of your downward gravitational pull until you rose to its level, as you rose above this mass, then this mass will start to contribute to your total downward gravitational pull.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9549
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2011, 11:39:35 PM »
If you measured it from a place which has particularly LOW gravity at sea level then you would expect G to rise as you got higher into the sky were the earth an infine plane.

Why would you expect G to rise higher?

Now add landmass above sea level.  While you are below this mass, it would negate some of your downward gravitational pull until you rose to its level, as you rose above this mass, then this mass will start to contribute to your total downward gravitational pull.

Well yes. This if there are mountains or valleys where you are doing an experiment, and the increase in gravitational pull is predicted by both RET and Infinite Earth FET.

I am asking why he is expecting it to increase even over a flat plain.

I don't see how this is a proof of anything. All I see you two stating is that if you were on a mountain, the mountain would add to your G. Yes, I do not deny this. I suppose I fail to see how the change of gravity is relevant to an infinite Earth, and not just the local differences in mass.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 11:42:51 PM by EnglshGentleman »

*

Parsifal

  • Official Member
  • 36118
  • Bendy Light specialist
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2011, 12:02:49 AM »
I suppose I fail to see how the change of gravity is relevant to an infinite Earth, and not just the local differences in mass.

Because the gravitational field created by an infinite, massive plane on its exterior is theoretically (if we accept Newtonian gravitation) uniform, much like the electric field on either side of a sufficiently large charged plate is theoretically uniform. The argument the REers in this thread are making is that if it is shown to vary with altitude, it is shown not to be uniform, and thus (supposedly) to disprove the infinite Earth model. This argument is fundamentally flawed because the Earth is not perfectly flat, nor is it the only massive object in the Universe.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 12:04:25 AM by Parsifal »
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9549
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2011, 12:06:20 AM »
I suppose I fail to see how the change of gravity is relevant to an infinite Earth, and not just the local differences in mass.

Because the gravitational field created by an infinite, massive plane on its exterior is theoretically (if we accept Newtonian gravitation) uniform, much like the electric field on either side of a sufficiently large charged plate is theoretically uniform. The argument the REers in this thread are making is that if it is shown to vary with altitude, it is shown not to be uniform, and thus (supposedly) to disprove the infinite Earth model. This argument is fundamentally flawed because the Earth is not perfectly flat, nor is it the only massive object in the Universe.

Gotcha. But it would have to be done on a completely flat plane so you would be able to know if it wasn't just a large mass changing the local gravitational pull?

Ok. I eagerly await the results of this experiment in which a person find a large flat plane, measure the gravity on the ground, then is able to get themselves way high up in the air perfectly above the spot they tested previously.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 12:08:25 AM by EnglshGentleman »

?

Demouse

  • 323
  • Mods don't like my haiku
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2011, 01:01:53 AM »
I suppose I fail to see how the change of gravity is relevant to an infinite Earth, and not just the local differences in mass.

Because the gravitational field created by an infinite, massive plane on its exterior is theoretically (if we accept Newtonian gravitation) uniform, much like the electric field on either side of a sufficiently large charged plate is theoretically uniform. The argument the REers in this thread are making is that if it is shown to vary with altitude, it is shown not to be uniform, and thus (supposedly) to disprove the infinite Earth model. This argument is fundamentally flawed because the Earth is not perfectly flat, nor is it the only massive object in the Universe.

my specific test would have accounted for the earth not being uniform by starting at the point on the earth's surface what has the lowest gravity at sea level. Thus if the non-uniformity resulted in a mesurable gravitational shift it would be expected for gravity to shift towards the average as you rose in height, therefore resulting in an increase in G.

The gravitational effect of other large bodies would be a good point, but they are all so distant that we would harly notice. A way to ensure this is fair though would be to measure the gravitation at the heights mentioned at differing times as the large bodies moved closer and farther away from that point and see how much difference is made.


____________________________________________

Oh Skycake.... Why are you so delicious?


?

Ali

  • 237
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2011, 12:07:07 PM »
Is a sphere not, technically, also an infinite plain?

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9549
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2011, 12:23:18 PM »
Is a sphere not, technically, also an infinite plain?

No. Why would you think this?  ???

?

Around And About

  • 2615
  • Circular Logic Falls Flat
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2011, 01:46:28 PM »
Is a sphere not, technically, also an infinite plain?

No. Why would you think this?  ???

I'm guessing because you can travel on a "straight" path forever on it, although how in the world that "technically" makes it "infinite" is beyond me.
I'm not black nor a thug, I'm more like god who will bring 7 plagues of flat earth upon your ass.

?

trig

  • 2240
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2011, 07:43:00 AM »
Is a sphere not, technically, also an infinite plain?
Sorry to contradict you, but a sphere is not similar to an infinite plane, except for one geometric property: the lack of borders.

For starters, the sphere has finite surface area, the infinite plane does not.

The curious property of an infinite plane that is being discussed here really depends on it being infinite, not just very big. It is counter-intuitive because we have never seen an infinite plane, so we have to base our analysis on maths only.

*

Username

  • Administrator
  • 17990
Re: Infinite Earth Theory specifically MATHS!!!!
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2011, 11:42:15 PM »
Gravity should be uniform regardless of height on an infinite plane, so finding different values for gravity at the same location but differing heights would disprove infinite earth theory.

Can this be shown to be true or false?

It can be shown to be false, because the Earth's surface is not perfectly flat.

To see why, consider the extreme case whereby one compares the inside of a cave to the top of the cave. When inside the cave, the rock above one would have an upward gravitational influence, reducing the overall gravitational field strength. When on top of the cave, that same rock would be below one, and thus would increase the overall gravitational field strength.

Less extreme cases include valleys, where the mountains on either side would have a different effect on the gravitational field depending on altitude.
Correct.  The local geography affects the gravitational pull of an otherwise uniform body.  This is yet another of the many traits that an infintie plane shares with a spherical body.  Which should be obvious.
So long and thanks for all the fish