Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?

  • 108 Replies
  • 7796 Views
*

Marcus Aurelius

  • 4546
  • My Alts: Tom Bishop, Gayer, theonlydann
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #90 on: February 20, 2011, 08:36:49 AM »
??? I thought the whole point of God was that he makes no sense but you believe in him anyway for no apparent reason?

That is why it is so hard to reason with religious people.  Their faith demands absolute belief in something even when evidence to the contrary is presented.

Take William Lane Craig, I seem to remember him being quoted as saying that even if he was to go back in a time machine to the day before the first Easter Sunday, right outside Jesus's tomb, and witness first hand that nobody came out of the tomb for the next few days, he would still believe in the resurrection.  I think a great amount of Christians still would.  Many fundamentalists see their ability to reject reason and evidence over their beliefs as a test of the strength of faith in God.

?

fluffycornsnake

  • Official Member
  • 1307
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #91 on: February 20, 2011, 08:53:09 AM »
Take William Lane Craig, I seem to remember him being quoted as saying that even if he was to go back in a time machine to the day before the first Easter Sunday, right outside Jesus's tomb, and witness first hand that nobody came out of the tomb for the next few days, he would still believe in the resurrection.

Wut. Why? Do you have a source?

*

Marcus Aurelius

  • 4546
  • My Alts: Tom Bishop, Gayer, theonlydann
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2011, 10:33:58 AM »
Take William Lane Craig, I seem to remember him being quoted as saying that even if he was to go back in a time machine to the day before the first Easter Sunday, right outside Jesus's tomb, and witness first hand that nobody came out of the tomb for the next few days, he would still believe in the resurrection.

Wut. Why? Do you have a source?

I cannot find it, sorry.  However did find this quote, which pretty much says the same thing:

Quote
Should a conflict arise between the witness of the Holy Spirit to the fundamental truth of the Christian faith and beliefs based on argument and evidence, then it is the former which must take precedence over the latter, not vice versa. [William Lane Craig, Reasonable Faith: Christian Truth and Apologetics, (Revised edition, Wheaton, IL: Crossway, 1994), p. 36.]

*

Marcus Aurelius

  • 4546
  • My Alts: Tom Bishop, Gayer, theonlydann
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #93 on: February 20, 2011, 11:05:51 AM »
Ah ha!  Here is where I saw it.  Unfortunately it is not a direct quote.  Take it as you will, it's a page or two down from the link.

http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/contra_craig/contra_craig.htm#Comments%20on%20Craig%27s%20Book:%20Reasonable%20Faith


*

Trekky0623

  • Official Member
  • 10061
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #94 on: February 20, 2011, 11:46:13 AM »

*

Weegee Board

  • 10323
  • Pokemon Master
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #95 on: February 20, 2011, 12:04:01 PM »
I wish CR90 would post in this thread.

?

fluffycornsnake

  • Official Member
  • 1307
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #96 on: February 20, 2011, 02:07:33 PM »
Wow. As Christian apologists go, I was never hugely impressed with WLC, but he has effectively destroyed his credibility there. I'll bet he's a RE'er as well.

*

Tausami

  • Head Editor
  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6767
  • Venerated Official of the High Zetetic Council
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #97 on: February 20, 2011, 07:14:32 PM »
Wow. As Christian apologists go, I was never hugely impressed with WLC, but he has effectively destroyed his credibility there. I'll bet he's a RE'er as well.

Probably. What a loser.

*

Marcus Aurelius

  • 4546
  • My Alts: Tom Bishop, Gayer, theonlydann
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #98 on: February 20, 2011, 07:53:15 PM »
According to the link, WLC has won more debates than he has lost.  But that is mainly because he is a very good at what he does.

*

Tausami

  • Head Editor
  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6767
  • Venerated Official of the High Zetetic Council
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #99 on: February 20, 2011, 08:33:15 PM »
According to the link, WLC has won more debates than he has lost.  But that is mainly because he is a very good at what he does.

Winning a debate means that one is good at debating, not correct.

*

Marcus Aurelius

  • 4546
  • My Alts: Tom Bishop, Gayer, theonlydann
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #100 on: February 20, 2011, 08:38:34 PM »
According to the link, WLC has won more debates than he has lost.  But that is mainly because he is a very good at what he does.

Winning a debate means that one is good at debating, not correct.

It's really all about whether or not you convince your audience, and stump your opponent.  His arguments are crap, but if his opponent is not prepared to counter them properly it really does not matter.

*

Beorn

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6543
  • If I can't trust my eyes, what can I trust?
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #101 on: February 20, 2011, 11:13:47 PM »
According to the link, WLC has won more debates than he has lost.  But that is mainly because he is a very good at what he does.

Winning a debate means that one is good at debating, not correct.

It's really all about whether or not you convince your audience, and stump your opponent.  His arguments are crap, but if his opponent is not prepared to counter them properly it really does not matter.

religious people have mayor headway in debates, as they don't have to explain anythin while the opponent has to explain everything from the forming of the universe to evolution to abiogenesis. Plus the religious person can just say "but that's what faith is" and because most people going to religious debates are also religious that will be a win in the debate
Quote
Only one thing can save our future. Give Thork a BanHammer for Th*rksakes!

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9548
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #102 on: February 20, 2011, 11:40:23 PM »
Ya, it is a fallacious technique to tell someone in a debate have to explain something like abiogenesis in its entirety because if they refuse, they come off as having a weak position, and if they accept and explain it all, they appear long winded.

It is like asking a loaded question.

"Have you stopped supporting necrophilia yet?

*

Supertails

  • 4387
  • what do i put here
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #103 on: February 20, 2011, 11:53:32 PM »
No, I haven't.  :(

Oh, wait, that wasn't...?  Oops.
Recently listened to:


Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #104 on: February 21, 2011, 12:46:47 AM »
Ya, it is a fallacious technique to tell someone in a debate have to explain something like abiogenesis in its entirety because if they refuse, they come off as having a weak position, and if they accept and explain it all, they appear long winded.

It is like asking a loaded question.

"Have you stopped supporting necrophilia yet?

my teacher's example when I was learning about fallacies was "have you stopped beating your wife?"

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9548
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #105 on: February 21, 2011, 06:19:30 AM »
Ya, it is a fallacious technique to tell someone in a debate have to explain something like abiogenesis in its entirety because if they refuse, they come off as having a weak position, and if they accept and explain it all, they appear long winded.

It is like asking a loaded question.

"Have you stopped supporting necrophilia yet?

my teacher's example when I was learning about fallacies was "have you stopped beating your wife?"

Riveting.

*

Weegee Board

  • 10323
  • Pokemon Master
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #106 on: February 21, 2011, 09:24:56 AM »
Ya, it is a fallacious technique to tell someone in a debate have to explain something like abiogenesis in its entirety because if they refuse, they come off as having a weak position, and if they accept and explain it all, they appear long winded.

It is like asking a loaded question.

"Have you stopped supporting necrophilia yet?

my teacher's example when I was learning about fallacies was "have you stopped beating your wife?"

Riveting.

That's the one most people use.

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9548
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #107 on: February 21, 2011, 10:35:32 AM »
Ya, it is a fallacious technique to tell someone in a debate have to explain something like abiogenesis in its entirety because if they refuse, they come off as having a weak position, and if they accept and explain it all, they appear long winded.

It is like asking a loaded question.

"Have you stopped supporting necrophilia yet?

my teacher's example when I was learning about fallacies was "have you stopped beating your wife?"

Riveting.

That's the one most people use.

Really? I have yet to hear someone say that in a debate.

*

Weegee Board

  • 10323
  • Pokemon Master
Re: Can an omniscient being exist with a universe that has free will?
« Reply #108 on: February 21, 2011, 10:56:50 AM »
Ya, it is a fallacious technique to tell someone in a debate have to explain something like abiogenesis in its entirety because if they refuse, they come off as having a weak position, and if they accept and explain it all, they appear long winded.

It is like asking a loaded question.

"Have you stopped supporting necrophilia yet?

my teacher's example when I was learning about fallacies was "have you stopped beating your wife?"

Riveting.

That's the one most people use.

Really? I have yet to hear someone say that in a debate.

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic.