Poll

Did Gabrielle Giffords' political opponents cause her to get shot in the head?

Yes.
5 (25%)
No.
15 (75%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Gabrielle Giffords

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Trekky0623

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2011, 08:02:29 AM »
I don't like conspiracy theories. Yes, there could have been an accomplice, but in all likelihood, the man was just crazy and acted alone.

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17 November

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2011, 03:41:42 PM »
I don't like conspiracy theories
And you are so entitled, but in my opinion all that statement amounts to is an attempt to label, stigmatize and squelch a legitimate path of inquiry.

in all likelihood, the man was just crazy and acted alone.

And that opinion is what we call the beginning point of a prejudiced investigation - not an objective one. 

An objective approach treats all possibilities equitably and seeks to be influenced by relevant factual evidence and not the politics of the moment.


I reckon from what happened on the scene that he may or may not have had an accomplice.  As far as that is concerned, I am not prejudiced in either direction.

However, my knowledge of consistent trends in other assasinations of leaders for whom a possible motive might indeed exist leads me to suspect the possibility of both an accomplice and even support network.  I am inclined towards that opinion?  I honestly hesitate to say without more evidence, but to excllude the possibility due to ignorance is a decision which I have more often than not found to be dead wrong.

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pizzaguy

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2011, 05:27:57 AM »
And you are so entitled, but in my opinion all that statement amounts to is an attempt to label, stigmatize and squelch a legitimate path of inquiry.
All that from a guy expressing his opinion?

Quote from: 17 November
in all likelihood, the man was just crazy and acted alone.

And that opinion is what we call the beginning point of a prejudiced investigation - not an objective one.

An objective approach treats all possibilities equitably and seeks to be influenced by relevant factual evidence and not the politics of the moment.

However, my knowledge of consistent trends in other assasinations of leaders for whom a possible motive might indeed exist leads me to suspect the possibility of both an accomplice and even support network.  I am inclined towards that opinion?  I honestly hesitate to say without more evidence, but to excllude the possibility due to ignorance is a decision which I have more often than not found to be dead wrong.
1)  Trekky in not INVESTIGATING anything... he is expressing an opinion.
2)  It is YOU who insist in injecting the "politics of the moment" into this, not Trekky (case in point your last paragraph above, speaking of that:)
3)  The guy acted alone, the individual in question has been interviewed, he is a cab driver that brought Jared to the event.  So, tell us, you are a preacher by trade, aren't you?
Pizzaguy IS about the most informative and logical REer here.

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Beorn

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2011, 09:53:24 AM »
I would not want to be the cap driver with people like 17 November walking around.
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Only one thing can save our future. Give Thork a BanHammer for Th*rksakes!

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2011, 10:47:16 AM »
From everything I've read so far on the shooter, it wasn't specifically politically motivated but more likely anti-government sentiments in general, coupled with a potentially psychopathic personality.

Beno, I thought you might find this article interesting.  What do you think? http://www.slate.com/id/2281133
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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pizzaguy

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2011, 05:01:07 PM »
I would not want to be the cap driver with people like 17 November walking around.
Yea, but he might be trolling me. 
Pizzaguy IS about the most informative and logical REer here.

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17 November

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2011, 05:03:30 AM »
Beno, I thought you might find this article interesting.  What do you think? http://www.slate.com/id/2281133

I think Nietzsche enthusiasts trying to distance themselves from Jared Loughner are like right-wingers who try to distance themselves from Nazism.  Nietzsche's literature is a disservice to the unfortunate and weak but a godsend to exploiters and greedy wealthy who want an excuse to void their conscience.  Although only a feeble creature, Nietzsche was an opponent of both Jesus Christ and socialism, and simultaneously a patron of fascism, zionism, degenerate modern psychiatry, and generations of deluded nihilists like Charles Manson and Jared Loughner.  Nietzsche many times over continues to prove himself a malignant influence. 

I have long been planing to pick up a copy of Franz Mehring's classic (and sympathetic) biography of Karl Marx in which (as I hear) he slams Nietzsche.  Mehring wrote that "Nietzsche condemned socialism with the outworn commonplaces of capitalist exploitation, with phrases which a travelling salesman would hardly use at a beer table."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/mehring/1909/xx/philosophy.htm

http://www.sauer-thompson.com/conversations/archives/002780.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_and_reception_of_Friedrich_Nietzsche#Nietzsche_and_Zionism

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Disseminating the truth about fanatics like Friedrich Nietzsche and Count Gobineau will diminish the number of Jared Loughner's and Norman Bates infinitely more than building psychiatric hospitals and prisons and increasing incarcerations to fill them which only creates an underclass caste system.

Restricting violence and gore in video games and movies will do infinitely more to eliminate violence than restricting guns.

The problem with banning guns and building more prisons is the same as with Hippocratic medicine versus modern medicine.  The former primarily aims to resolve the cause of a problem while the latter only aims to eliminate the effects.  The solution is therefore obvious: Eliminate Nietzschean literature and people like Jared Loughner and Charles Manson develop into better people than otherwise.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2011, 11:10:43 AM »
Violence existed long before video games.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Lorddave

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2011, 02:27:07 PM »
Violence existed long before video games.
It also existed long before the majority of the population could read.

Look, I said it before and I'll say it again:
This looks like nothing more than a coincidence to me.  A mentally ill and violent person went into a cafe and shot people.  I doubt he had any political motivation simply because his shots were wild and untrained.  There was a lot of collateral damage.  Plus, he didn't count bullets and save one for himself.  All good Assassins should kill themselves immediately after doing their job especially when they have no hope of escape.

As for our mental health system:
It sucks.  This doesn't mean that some people don't need help, but it does mean that the psychiatrists are not as well trained in separating the Normal from the Dangerous properly.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2011, 03:44:47 PM »
He went to the "Congress on the corner" event specifically to assassinate Giffords. The police searched his room and found  evidence that this was planned.  It was certainly not a coincidence.  It was also not the first time he had contact with Giffords.  I have no idea where you got the idea that this was a coincidence.  Or what any of this has to do with the ability to read.  November was blaming violence on video games, I wasn't blaming violence on reading. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/10giffords.html
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Lorddave

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2011, 03:51:44 PM »
He went to the "Congress on the corner" event specifically to assassinate Giffords. The police searched his room and found  evidence that this was planned.  It was certainly not a coincidence.  It was also not the first time he had contact with Giffords.  I have no idea where you got the idea that this was a coincidence.  Or what any of this has to do with the ability to read.  November was blaming violence on video games, I wasn't blaming violence on reading. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/10giffords.html

1. Because I haven't actually followed the story.
2. November said:

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The solution is therefore obvious: Eliminate Nietzscheanliterature and people like Jared Loughner and Charles Manson develop into better people than otherwise.

I was adding to your argument.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2011, 04:03:16 PM »
Ah.. well sorry about the mix up. 

The reason I wanted Beno to read the Nietzsche article was to see if it was accurate, since he is the philosophy genius. 
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Benocrates

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2011, 04:10:06 PM »
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Disseminating the truth about fanatics like Friedrich Nietzsche and Count Gobineau will diminish the number of Jared Loughner's and

lol, nope. What 'facts' do you think would alter his nihilist existential position?

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I have long been planing to pick up a copy of Franz Mehring's classic (and sympathetic) biography of Karl Marx in which (as I hear) he slams Nietzsche.  Mehring wrote that "Nietzsche condemned socialism with the outworn commonplaces of capitalist exploitation, with phrases which a travelling salesman would hardly use at a beer table."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/mehring/1909/xx/philosophy.htm

Well...of course a socialist will slam Nietzsche. But I have no idea what this has to do with anything.

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I think Nietzsche enthusiasts trying to distance themselves from Jared Loughner are like right-wingers who try to distance themselves from Nazism.
wut?


And Nietzsche was not a patron of Zionism. Perhaps a few Zionists, but thats it.

As for your book burning philosophy, what other ideas are too dangerous to be in public?


Quote from: President Barack Obama
Pot had helped
Get the fuck over it.

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Benocrates

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2011, 04:17:48 PM »
As for the article, it seems spot on to me. People like Loughner so often misunderstand Nietzsche, especially with his sister's collection 'Will to Power'. Even most philosophers don't really understand Nietzsche.
Quote from: President Barack Obama
Pot had helped
Get the fuck over it.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2011, 04:20:44 PM »
Cool, I always wondered why Nietzsche gets blamed for things (I've never read any of his work). That article made a lot of sense to me, so I was hoping the author knew what he was talking about.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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17 November

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Re: Gabrielle Giffords
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2011, 10:52:25 PM »
I always wondered why Nietzsche gets blamed for things (I've never read any of his work). That article made a lot of sense to me, so I was hoping the author knew what he was talking about.

Nietzsche gets blamed for things because he's Glen Beck minus the religious facade.  He was an anti-social outcast on steroids.