Gravity

All I would like to see, is a real world example of either weight or the speed at which things fall, varying at different locations around the world.

Other than look up other people's research (which he probably won't trust anyways), probably not.

So you just impose conditions that prevent you from getting the result you seek. The average everyday person cannot detect tiny variations in gravity.

Quote from: General Disarray on February 09, 2011, 09:07:37 AM

So you just impose conditions that prevent you from getting the result you seek. The average everyday person cannot detect tiny variations in gravity.

So RET has made a crazy claim about things changing weight and things falling at various speeds depending on location, and I have to just accept it? No evidence will be provided. This phenomenon happens because NASA says it does, so that is that?
My point is made. Let those who read this thread judge it for themselves. I have no interest in trying to corner you. This isn't a game. Let the learned individual decide which makes more sense to them. I am satisfied RET has no place left to run.

If you refuse to take the necessary steps to verify or disprove these things for yourself, then you don't really have any business saying that they aren't true.

Quote from: General Disarray on February 09, 2011, 09:40:13 AM

If you refuse to take the necessary steps to verify or disprove these things for yourself, then you don't really have any business saying that they aren't true.

Gravity changing around earth is an RE theory. Who has the burden of proof? I'm not being unreasonable. I just want an example in real life where someone has met with this phenomenon.

Quote from: Thork on February 09, 2011, 09:49:01 AM

Quote from: General Disarray on February 09, 2011, 09:40:13 AM

If you refuse to take the necessary steps to verify or disprove these things for yourself, then you don't really have any business saying that they aren't true.

Gravity changing around earth is an RE theory. Who has the burden of proof? I'm not being unreasonable. I just want an example in real life where someone has met with this phenomenon.

Such has been provided to you. You even provided some of the evidence yourself. It is your problem if you don't believe it.

FE'er: Give me evidence now!
RE'er: Ok, here it is, just like you asked for.
FE'er: Giving evidence from a source that is known to be untrustworthy?
RE'er: That's not truuuuuuuee!!!!
FE'er: Get me some actual evidence.
RE'er: NO U!

I don't want research. Just an every day example of someone running into this as they go about their daily lives.

Yes ... hang on. What is all this mass business about? We have already said we are not interested in mass. We are only interested in weight. The OP is about variations in gravity so balances are irrelevant. We need examples of where weight is different, in different places. Now Markjo has linked a wiki page suggesting that scales are calibrated so that a mass in india weighs the same as a mass in Finland. This seems very convenient. However what it suggests is that if you took some Indian scales from India to Finland, they would over-read. So we need examples of discrepancies between local scales and a set that have been imported, or someone needs to perform the experiment for themselves next time they are on holiday by taking some scales with them. (Do not use RyanAir ... the extra baggage charge will be large for a decent set of scales).

Now we can widen the search for the truth. We are measuring the gravity in different parts of the world. So it is not only weight we can examine. We can look at acceleration. Do things fall faster in Finland than anywhere else on earth? Do things fall more slowly in India? Variable gravity suggests they would as 9.82 m/s² is faster that 9.78 m/s² after all.  - if so the world keepy-uppy football championships should be held in India.

Again I have never heard of anything so ridiculous in the real world as things falling faster in different countries. Please provide evidence of things falling faster in certain places.

Quote from: markjo on February 09, 2011, 08:47:42 AM

Other than look up other people's research (which he probably won't trust anyways), probably not.

I don't want research. Just an every day example of someone running into this as they go about their daily lives. It effects the whole planet. So surely someone has run up against this. This is typical RET as far as i am concerned. A claim is made and theory is produced. All the sheeple think, mmmm yes that makes sense, but don't question whether that is what happens. The just take it from NASA that gravity varies over the planet.

ITT: we forget about whole fields of science.

Quote from: General Disarray on February 09, 2011, 09:51:06 AM

Quote from: Thork on February 09, 2011, 09:49:01 AM

Quote from: General Disarray on February 09, 2011, 09:40:13 AM

If you refuse to take the necessary steps to verify or disprove these things for yourself, then you don't really have any business saying that they aren't true.

Gravity changing around earth is an RE theory. Who has the burden of proof? I'm not being unreasonable. I just want an example in real life where someone has met with this phenomenon.

Such has been provided to you. You even provided some of the evidence yourself. It is your problem if you don't believe it.

A mock up by NASA is not acceptable, no. I am happy to leave it there. Let those who read this thread judge for themselves, I suspect this one has run its course.

As with many threads, I predict this will be flogged like the dead horse that it is for several more pages, but I'm finished with it.

ITT: we forget about whole fields of science.

Quote from: General Disarray on February 09, 2011, 09:59:17 AM

FE'er: Give me evidence now!
RE'er: Ok, here it is, just like you asked for.
FE'er: Giving evidence from a source that is known to be untrustworthy?
RE'er: That's not truuuuuuuee!!!!
FE'er: Get me some actual evidence.
RE'er: NO U!

Quote from: Thork on February 09, 2011, 08:56:54 AM

I don't want research. Just an every day example of someone running into this as they go about their daily lives.

That's just it.  People don't run into this during their everyday lives.  They only run into it when they need to make very precise weight measurements in different parts of the world.

Quote from: markjo on February 09, 2011, 01:21:03 PM

Quote from: Thork on February 09, 2011, 08:56:54 AM

I don't want research. Just an every day example of someone running into this as they go about their daily lives.

That's just it.  People don't run into this during their everyday lives.  They only run into it when they need to make very precise weight measurements in different parts of the world.

I can see where this would come into play if there was a difference in weights in different parts of the world, but have never heard a word about it anywhere but FES..
  Think about it. If you bought a 100 Troy ounce bar of silver, it is stamped 100 tr oz..It does not give the country it was stamped in or what country it is calibrated for. It weighs 100 tr oz everywhere in the world.
 People would complain if it weighed any less. A 1% difference in weight would make it weigh 99 tr oz or 101 tr oz. Precious metal dealers would not put up with it.

http://www.lacosteromberg.com/fg5Principle.htm
http://www.springerlink.com/content/k7t2nj1560342t54/
http://www.gwrinstruments.com/
http://ethesis.helsinki.fi/julkaisut/mat/fysik/vk/virtanen/studieso.pdf
http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/GRD/GRAVITY/ABSG.html
http://rsi.aip.org/resource/1/rsinak/v70/i11/p4131_s1
http://www.gfz-potsdam.de/portal/gfz/Struktur/Departments/Department+1/sec12/infrastructure/link_sagos;jsessionid=1F4BFEC11A5E7B3D806DDFBB4DD4F5EF
http://gravity.ucsd.edu/pub/1998_francis.pdf
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0902/0902.4081v1.pdf
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/ametek/deadweight_tester/hk1000.htm
Check one. Or two. Or All.
It's not that hard to admit that you were wrong

Quote from: markjo on February 09, 2011, 01:21:03 PM

Quote from: Thork on February 09, 2011, 08:56:54 AM

I don't want research. Just an every day example of someone running into this as they go about their daily lives.

That's just it.  People don't run into this during their everyday lives.  They only run into it when they need to make very precise weight measurements in different parts of the world.

I can see where this would come into play if there was a difference in weights in different parts of the world, but have never heard a word about it anywhere but FES..
  Think about it. If you bought a 100 Troy ounce bar of silver, it is stamped 100 tr oz..It does not give the country it was stamped in or what country it is calibrated for. It weighs 100 tr oz everywhere in the world.
 People would complain if it weighed any less. A 1% difference in weight would make it weigh 99 tr oz or 101 tr oz. Precious metal dealers would not put up with it.

Quote from: hoppy on February 10, 2011, 05:04:22 AM

Quote from: markjo on February 09, 2011, 01:21:03 PM

Quote from: Thork on February 09, 2011, 08:56:54 AM

I don't want research. Just an every day example of someone running into this as they go about their daily lives.

That's just it.  People don't run into this during their everyday lives.  They only run into it when they need to make very precise weight measurements in different parts of the world.

I can see where this would come into play if there was a difference in weights in different parts of the world, but have never heard a word about it anywhere but FES..
  Think about it. If you bought a 100 Troy ounce bar of silver, it is stamped 100 tr oz..It does not give the country it was stamped in or what country it is calibrated for. It weighs 100 tr oz everywhere in the world.
 People would complain if it weighed any less. A 1% difference in weight would make it weigh 99 tr oz or 101 tr oz. Precious metal dealers would not put up with it.

It does. and just because you haven't heard of it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Quote from: Thevoiceofreason on February 10, 2011, 03:18:00 AM

http://www.lacosteromberg.com/fg5Principle.htm
http://www.springerlink.com/content/k7t2nj1560342t54/
http://www.gwrinstruments.com/
http://ethesis.helsinki.fi/julkaisut/mat/fysik/vk/virtanen/studieso.pdf
http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/GRD/GRAVITY/ABSG.html
http://rsi.aip.org/resource/1/rsinak/v70/i11/p4131_s1
http://www.gfz-potsdam.de/portal/gfz/Struktur/Departments/Department+1/sec12/infrastructure/link_sagos;jsessionid=1F4BFEC11A5E7B3D806DDFBB4DD4F5EF
http://gravity.ucsd.edu/pub/1998_francis.pdf
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0902/0902.4081v1.pdf
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/ametek/deadweight_tester/hk1000.htm
Check one. Or two. Or All.
It's not that hard to admit that you were wrong

Alot of that is theoretical stuff, trying to find gravitational waves and soforth.
 Where does 100 tr oz's, not weigh 100 tr oz's, which it would if the gravitational pull is different in different areas.

Troy weight is a system of units of mass customarily used for precious metals, black powder, and gemstones.

Quote from: hoppy on February 10, 2011, 08:18:05 AM

Alot of that is theoretical stuff, trying to find gravitational waves and soforth.
 Where does 100 tr oz's, not weigh 100 tr oz's, which it would if the gravitational pull is different in different areas.

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_weight

Troy weight is a system of units of mass customarily used for precious metals, black powder, and gemstones.

A tr oz is a measure of mass not weight.
People used balance scales long before spring scales came into being.

Berny
Are we missing this point?

Quote from: berny_74 on February 10, 2011, 12:49:11 PM

Quote from: hoppy on February 10, 2011, 08:18:05 AM

Alot of that is theoretical stuff, trying to find gravitational waves and soforth.
 Where does 100 tr oz's, not weigh 100 tr oz's, which it would if the gravitational pull is different in different areas.

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_weight

Troy weight is a system of units of mass customarily used for precious metals, black powder, and gemstones.

A tr oz is a measure of mass not weight.
People used balance scales long before spring scales came into being.

Berny
Are we missing this point?

The point is people use scales all the time to measure weight.
According to you scales will show different weights in different areas.
I want to know where 100 tr ozs, weighs something different on a scale.

Well, this is what Wikipedia says:

"Government regulation generally requires periodic inspections by licensed technicians using weights whose calibration is traceable to an approved laboratory. Scales intended for casual use such as bathroom or diet scales may be produced, but must by law be labelled "Not Legal for Trade" to ensure that they are not repurposed in a way that jeopardizes commercial interest.[citation needed] In the United States, the document describing how scales must be designed, installed, and used for commercial purposes is NIST Handbook 44.

Because gravity varies by over 0.5% over the surface of the earth, the distinction between force due to gravity and mass is relevant for accurate calibration of scales for commercial purposes. Usually the goal is to measure the mass of the sample rather than its force due to gravity at that particular location.

Traditional mechanical balance-beam scales intrinsically measured mass. But ordinary electronic scales intrinsically measure the gravitational force between the sample and the earth, i.e. the weight of the sample, which varies with location. So such a scale has to be re-calibrated after installation, for that specific location, in order to obtain an accurate indication of mass."

Quote from: Around And About on February 10, 2011, 05:29:32 PM

Well, this is what Wikipedia says:

"Government regulation generally requires periodic inspections by licensed technicians using weights whose calibration is traceable to an approved laboratory. Scales intended for casual use such as bathroom or diet scales may be produced, but must by law be labelled "Not Legal for Trade" to ensure that they are not repurposed in a way that jeopardizes commercial interest.[citation needed] In the United States, the document describing how scales must be designed, installed, and used for commercial purposes is NIST Handbook 44.

Because gravity varies by over 0.5% over the surface of the earth, the distinction between force due to gravity and mass is relevant for accurate calibration of scales for commercial purposes. Usually the goal is to measure the mass of the sample rather than its force due to gravity at that particular location.

Traditional mechanical balance-beam scales intrinsically measured mass. But ordinary electronic scales intrinsically measure the gravitational force between the sample and the earth, i.e. the weight of the sample, which varies with location. So such a scale has to be re-calibrated after installation, for that specific location, in order to obtain an accurate indication of mass."

Another RET conspiracy, if they didn't calibrate all the scales around he world. Things would have different weights depending upon their location. Thank goodness for big brother calibrating all those scales. Give me a break.

Another RET conspiracy, if they didn't calibrate all the scales around he world. Things would have different weights depending upon their location. Thank goodness for big brother calibrating all those scales. Give me a break.

3.2.1.  Mass and Weight. - The mass of a body is a measure of its inertial property or how much matter it contains. 
The weight of a body is a measure of the force exerted on it by gravity or the force needed to support it.  Gravity on
earth gives a body a downward  acceleration of about 9.8 m/s
2
 In common parlance, weight is often used as a)  .
synonym for mass as in weights and measures.)  The incorrect use of weight in place of mass should be phased out,
and the term mass used when mass is meant.
Standards of mass are ordinarily calibrated by comparison to a reference standard of mass.  If two objects are
compared on a balance and give the same balance indication, they have the same "mass" (excluding the effect of air
buoyancy).  The forces of gravity on the two objects are balanced.  Even though the value of the acceleration of
gravity, g, is different from location to location, because the two objects of equal mass in the same location (where
both masses are acted upon by the same  g) will be affected in the same manner and by the same amount by any
change in the value of g, the two objects will balance each other under any value of g.
However, on a spring balance the mass of a body is not balanced against the mass of another body.  Instead, the
gravitational force on the body is balanced by the restoring force of a spring.  Therefore, if a very sensitive spring
balance is used, the indicated mass of the body would be found to change if the spring balance and the body were
moved from one locality to another locality with a different acceleration of gravity.  But a spring balance is usually
used in one locality and is adjusted or calibrated to indicate mass at that locality.