Flores Murder Trial Begins Soon

Quote from: soupnazi on January 26, 2011, 11:51:04 AM

Quote from: Beorn on January 26, 2011, 11:33:41 AM

Quote from: Saddam Hussein on January 25, 2011, 05:39:51 PM

I'm not saying that all burglars are psychopaths.  But they are criminals, and criminals do not think rationally, nor are they particularly noted for empathizing with their victims.

Why would burglars not think rationally? And there's still a big step between stealing something and killing someone. Heck, I know few people that never stole something. Should we go shoot the rest?

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There is a difference between trespassing and breaking into someone's home.

But you would still not know if I was trespassing to actually murder you. So should you shoot me?

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Seriously?  Did you seriously just say that?  Criminals carry guns for protection from the people they're robbing.  Protection from their victims.  Protection from the good guys.

Well that "good" guy will shoot you, so why wouldn't they want to protect themselves?

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Let me think about this one.  Hmm...no, that really doesn't make me sympathize with them.

Never said you had to sympathize with them

i think once you decide you are going to become a burglar you are no longer thinking rationally. you are correct that there is a big step between stealing and murdering, but if someone breaks into my home i am going to assume the worst.  and you argument that burglars would carry guns to protect themselves from the people they are robbing goes against your claim that burglars dont carry weapons.

I'm comparing countries where weapons are illegal with America, sorry didn't make that clear. And you can rationally consider if the chance of getting caught weights up against the profit you might make.

also burglary is never a rational decision.

Because the risks pretty much always outweigh the benefits.

Quote from: Trekky0623 on January 27, 2011, 09:34:54 AM

Because the risks pretty much always outweigh the benefits.

Hobo is cold on the street. He can either go sleep on a park bench, or he can break into a house. Either he gets caught and gets warm nights in cell or he doesn't get caught and can sleep warm in house.

rationality

If he wants to feed his children, he might decide that it's worth the risk.

Quote from: Tausami on January 27, 2011, 11:12:37 AM

If he wants to feed his children, he might decide that it's worth the risk.

To get shot versus going to a homeless shelter?

If you're not breaking the law, why can't you expect to be safe? That's the main point.
If someone punched me in the street, I'd make every attempt to not be hurt again, even at the expense at the attacker. If someone if prepared to attack me, who knows how far he is prepared to go?

If someone broke into my home, why should I, a law abiding citizen, not be able to feel safe? I'd make any attempt to regain safety, even at the expense of the burglar. I'm not saying instantly go for the kill.

Quote from: Eddy Baby on January 27, 2011, 11:45:48 AM

If you're not breaking the law, why can't you expect to be safe? That's the main point.
If someone punched me in the street, I'd make every attempt to not be hurt again, even at the expense at the attacker. If someone if prepared to attack me, who knows how far he is prepared to go?

If someone broke into my home, why should I, a law abiding citizen, not be able to feel safe? I'd make any attempt to regain safety, even at the expense of the burglar. I'm not saying instantly go for the kill.

That's why I said excessive force. Do you think that you should shoot the person that punched you?

Quote from: Eddy Baby on January 27, 2011, 11:45:48 AM

If you're not breaking the law, why can't you expect to be safe? That's the main point.
If someone punched me in the street, I'd make every attempt to not be hurt again, even at the expense at the attacker. If someone if prepared to attack me, who knows how far he is prepared to go?

If someone broke into my home, why should I, a law abiding citizen, not be able to feel safe? I'd make any attempt to regain safety, even at the expense of the burglar. I'm not saying instantly go for the kill.

That's why I said excessive force. Do you think that you should shoot the person that punched you?

Ok someone has no food and has to decide to starve to death or to steal. He decides that the chance of getting caught ways up to starving.

Rationality.

Because the risks pretty much always outweigh the benefits.

Quote from: Beorn on January 27, 2011, 11:31:33 AM

Ok someone has no food and has to decide to starve to death or to steal. He decides that the chance of getting caught ways up to starving.

Rationality.

That's still not a rational decision.  He could go to a soup kitchen or other such charity drive.  And if none could be found and he had to steal, then he could break into, say, a supermarket, or even a convenience store.  Someone's private residence is not a logical target for someone desperate for food.

Quote from: Saddam Hussein on January 27, 2011, 01:04:02 PM

Quote from: Beorn on January 27, 2011, 11:31:33 AM

Ok someone has no food and has to decide to starve to death or to steal. He decides that the chance of getting caught ways up to starving.

Rationality.

That's still not a rational decision.  He could go to a soup kitchen or other such charity drive.  And if none could be found and he had to steal, then he could break into, say, a supermarket, or even a convenience store.  Someone's private residence is not a logical target for someone desperate for food.

Convenience stores and supermarkets have cameras.

Ok someone has no food and has to decide to starve to death or to steal. He decides that the chance of getting caught ways up to starving.

Rationality.

Quote from: Saddam Hussein on January 27, 2011, 01:04:02 PM

Quote from: Beorn on January 27, 2011, 11:31:33 AM

Ok someone has no food and has to decide to starve to death or to steal. He decides that the chance of getting caught ways up to starving.

Rationality.

That's still not a rational decision.  He could go to a soup kitchen or other such charity drive.  And if none could be found and he had to steal, then he could break into, say, a supermarket, or even a convenience store.  Someone's private residence is not a logical target for someone desperate for food.

Convenience stores and supermarkets have cameras.

Quote from: Tausami on January 27, 2011, 01:07:59 PM

Quote from: Saddam Hussein on January 27, 2011, 01:04:02 PM

Quote from: Beorn on January 27, 2011, 11:31:33 AM

Ok someone has no food and has to decide to starve to death or to steal. He decides that the chance of getting caught ways up to starving.

Rationality.

That's still not a rational decision.  He could go to a soup kitchen or other such charity drive.  And if none could be found and he had to steal, then he could break into, say, a supermarket, or even a convenience store.  Someone's private residence is not a logical target for someone desperate for food.

Convenience stores and supermarkets have cameras.

Like Trekky said, it's a risk worth taking if the alternative is to starve.  And he wouldn't get shot, like he might if he broke into someone's house.  At the worst, he'll get sent to prison, and get three meals a day.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_6283c582-3eb6-11e0-870f-001cc4c03286.html

This wouldn't happen in England because everyone is nice.