Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?

  • 23 Replies
  • 5609 Views
?

Secret User

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 4233
Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« on: January 25, 2011, 06:45:42 PM »
I procrastinated on writing debate cases for my upcoming debate tournament, and now need to write them very quickly. And, of course, when looking for arguments I could use, the first reaction is to go ask all the friendly people of FES. The topic is as follows:

In the United States, juveniles charged with violent felonies ought to be treated as adults in the criminal justice system.

So, good idea, bad idea?
I vote for SecretUser as supreme overlord of TFES.

condemnant quod non intellegunt

*

Beorn

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6543
  • If I can't trust my eyes, what can I trust?
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2011, 06:47:34 PM »
Can you give a bit more information on American system for us none Americans? What is age of juveniles, what is the current system, when is something called a violent felony
Quote
Only one thing can save our future. Give Thork a BanHammer for Th*rksakes!

?

Mr Pseudonym

  • Official Member
  • 5448
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2011, 08:46:20 PM »
I procrastinated on writing debate cases for my upcoming debate tournament, and now need to write them very quickly. And, of course, when looking for arguments I could use, the first reaction is to go ask all the friendly people of FES. The topic is as follows:

In the United States, juveniles charged with violent felonies ought to be treated as adults in the criminal justice system.

So, good idea, bad idea?
You make it sound like this is an everyday or at least very regular occurrence.  Is that so?
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

?

Sean

  • Official Member
  • 10731
  • ...
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2011, 11:36:27 AM »
I procrastinated on writing debate cases for my upcoming debate tournament, and now need to write them very quickly. And, of course, when looking for arguments I could use, the first reaction is to go ask all the friendly people of FES. The topic is as follows:

In the United States, juveniles charged with violent felonies ought to be treated as adults in the criminal justice system.

So, good idea, bad idea?
You make it sound like this is an everyday or at least very regular occurrence.  Is that so?

I don't think it is, but that's not the point. Did you read the thread? It's a debate topic. Also, it's bad.
Quote from: sokarul
Better bring a better augment, something not so stupid.

*

Saddam Hussein

  • Official Member
  • 35362
  • Former President of Iraq
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2011, 12:05:53 PM »
It varies by state to state, but I think there are a few general rules on how it works.  If someone is convicted as a juvenile, they can only be held up to their 21st birthday, they are held in juvenile centers, things like that.

*

EnigmaZV

  • 3471
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2011, 12:15:08 PM »
I don't think trying a juvenile as an adult just because the felony was violent is wise.  For instance, if a 6 year old was coaxed by someone older to commit such a felony, I don't think they should automatically be tried as an adult.
I don't know what you're implying, but you're probably wrong.

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 40100
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2011, 12:41:39 PM »
It's really a case by case basis.  I doubt a six year old child would ever be tried as an adult, but there are cases where 13 year old rapists or murderers have been.  They look at the maturity level of the kid, plus the crime committed before making that decision.  Sometimes I think it is necessary.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2011, 12:49:11 PM »
It all has to do with the self awareness of the individual. If he/she knows what they are doing is bad, and they commit it willingly, try the person as an adult.

@Space Cowgirl -I believe a 6 yr old has. He intentionally sought out a pistol, and used it to shoot someone (can't remember who) multiple times.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 12:51:18 PM by JamesJamie »

*

EnigmaZV

  • 3471
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2011, 12:50:35 PM »
It all has to do with the self awareness of the individual. If he/she knows what they are doing is bad, and they commit it willingly, try the person as an adult.

I don't even know if that's good enough.  I think a reasonable awareness of the consequences and what they mean should also be present.  To relate to the 6 year old again, they may know what they're doing is wrong, but they might rationalize that the older person being mad at them is worse that whatever the other consequences may be.  They don't have the temporal awareness to think of long-term consequences.
I don't know what you're implying, but you're probably wrong.

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 40100
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2011, 01:02:17 PM »
I think there is a state that automatically charges anyone who commits murder as an adult, and then a judge decides whether the person is tried as an adult or juvenile.  I can't find any record of a six year old being tried as an adult.

I'm not sure if this is true http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2000/03/05/loc_kentucky_6-year-old.html
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 01:09:29 PM by Space Cowgirl »
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

?

Secret User

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 4233
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2011, 03:18:10 PM »
It's also a matter of what is considered a violent felony. Is burglary a violent felony? Rape? Murder? Also, "treated as an adult" is open to interpretation. 

From a psychological standpoint, in individuals under the age of around 18, the frontal lobe (which controls reasoning and logic) is not yet developed, therefore it's impossible for a child to really know what he is doing.
I vote for SecretUser as supreme overlord of TFES.

condemnant quod non intellegunt

*

Beorn

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6543
  • If I can't trust my eyes, what can I trust?
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2011, 03:30:20 PM »
It's also a matter of what is considered a violent felony.

According to some here it's a death penalty felony
Quote
Only one thing can save our future. Give Thork a BanHammer for Th*rksakes!

?

Mr Pseudonym

  • Official Member
  • 5448
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2011, 04:20:22 PM »
I procrastinated on writing debate cases for my upcoming debate tournament, and now need to write them very quickly. And, of course, when looking for arguments I could use, the first reaction is to go ask all the friendly people of FES. The topic is as follows:

In the United States, juveniles charged with violent felonies ought to be treated as adults in the criminal justice system.

So, good idea, bad idea?
You make it sound like this is an everyday or at least very regular occurrence.  Is that so?

I don't think it is, but that's not the point. Did you read the thread? It's a debate topic. Also, it's bad.
It is a valid point; why debate something that is a rare occurence? If it is rare, it should be debated on a case by case basis. Anyone who thinks they can neatly sum this up otherwise is mistaken.  The age difference between a 6yo and a 15yo is huge, so obvisouly we need different strokes for different folks.
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

*

Tausami

  • Head Editor
  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6767
  • Venerated Official of the High Zetetic Council
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2011, 07:47:07 PM »
It's also a matter of what is considered a violent felony. Is burglary a violent felony? Rape? Murder? Also, "treated as an adult" is open to interpretation. 

From a psychological standpoint, in individuals under the age of around 18, the frontal lobe (which controls reasoning and logic) is not yet developed, therefore it's impossible for a child to really know what he is doing.

If I were to kill someone, I'd know exactly what I was doing.

*

Raist

  • The Elder Ones
  • 30590
  • The cat in the Matrix
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2011, 09:35:51 PM »
The option has to be on the table. If the law said that no 17 year old, or 15 year old for that matter could be held in jail past the age of 21 for a crime committed then there would be nothing stopping them from going on murder sprees and facing only a few years in prison. Hell, going for the high score could become a tradition at the age of 17. See how many people you can kill and if you get caught.

I don't think all juveniles should be tried as an adult, but if you take away the option, you open up a huge can of worms.

Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2011, 04:31:58 PM »
if at the age of 15 if im not adult enough to know if i want to have sex with an 18 yr old or able to vote on/in the individuals who make the laws then please explain to me how i am old enough to be tried as an adult for crimes committed?

*

Raist

  • The Elder Ones
  • 30590
  • The cat in the Matrix
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2011, 11:13:11 PM »
if at the age of 15 if im not adult enough to know if i want to have sex with an 18 yr old or able to vote on/in the individuals who make the laws then please explain to me how i am old enough to be tried as an adult for crimes committed?

So you believe a 15 year old should be able to go around killing people and only be in jail for 6 years? No matter how many people he kills?

What would that tell the other fifteen year olds? Hell, 15 would become the age of the assassins, who wouldn't wanna make large sums of money if the risk was only 6 years in jail.

*

Beorn

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6543
  • If I can't trust my eyes, what can I trust?
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2011, 01:57:02 PM »
if at the age of 15 if im not adult enough to know if i want to have sex with an 18 yr old or able to vote on/in the individuals who make the laws then please explain to me how i am old enough to be tried as an adult for crimes committed?

So you believe a 15 year old should be able to go around killing people and only be in jail for 6 years? No matter how many people he kills?

What would that tell the other fifteen year olds? Hell, 15 would become the age of the assassins, who wouldn't wanna make large sums of money if the risk was only 6 years in jail.

Euh me
Quote
Only one thing can save our future. Give Thork a BanHammer for Th*rksakes!

Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2011, 02:36:58 PM »
if at the age of 15 if im not adult enough to know if i want to have sex with an 18 yr old or able to vote on/in the individuals who make the laws then please explain to me how i am old enough to be tried as an adult for crimes committed?

So you believe a 15 year old should be able to go around killing people and only be in jail for 6 years? No matter how many people he kills?

What would that tell the other fifteen year olds? Hell, 15 would become the age of the assassins, who wouldn't wanna make large sums of money if the risk was only 6 years in jail.
many countries have far lesser penalties for murder than we do still have lower crime rate.  i really think that most people who are going to kill will do so regardless off threat of punishment homes

?

Mr Pseudonym

  • Official Member
  • 5448
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2011, 04:46:14 PM »
if at the age of 15 if im not adult enough to know if i want to have sex with an 18 yr old or able to vote on/in the individuals who make the laws then please explain to me how i am old enough to be tried as an adult for crimes committed?

So you believe a 15 year old should be able to go around killing people and only be in jail for 6 years? No matter how many people he kills?

What would that tell the other fifteen year olds? Hell, 15 would become the age of the assassins, who wouldn't wanna make large sums of money if the risk was only 6 years in jail.
many countries have far lesser penalties for murder than we do still have lower crime rate.  i really think that most people who are going to kill will do so regardless off threat of punishment homes

This assumes they are all premeditated.
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

*

Tausami

  • Head Editor
  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6767
  • Venerated Official of the High Zetetic Council
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2011, 04:55:35 PM »
I say, stricter regulations on age minimums, but make them lower (maybe thirteen or fourteen?). That's my stance on most things, actually. If a ten-year-old kid gets angry and kills someone, he should get less time in jail, but also mandatory psychological evaluations and therapy. I also think that teenage hormones should be taken into account for things like petty teen vandalism, because we really can't control our anger sometimes.

*

Raist

  • The Elder Ones
  • 30590
  • The cat in the Matrix
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2011, 10:39:19 AM »
if at the age of 15 if im not adult enough to know if i want to have sex with an 18 yr old or able to vote on/in the individuals who make the laws then please explain to me how i am old enough to be tried as an adult for crimes committed?

So you believe a 15 year old should be able to go around killing people and only be in jail for 6 years? No matter how many people he kills?

What would that tell the other fifteen year olds? Hell, 15 would become the age of the assassins, who wouldn't wanna make large sums of money if the risk was only 6 years in jail.
many countries have far lesser penalties for murder than we do still have lower crime rate.  i really think that most people who are going to kill will do so regardless off threat of punishment homes

We aren't talking about motivation for crimes. We are talking about telling minors that they can kill anyone and anything they like and get out by their 21st birthday with nothing even on their record really.

?

Mr Pseudonym

  • Official Member
  • 5448
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2011, 04:56:38 AM »
It is no doubt that the topic is very relevant. To tackle this problem, the issue should be given a deep evaluation and treated at the grass root level of common men and women. They are the ones that are neglected and eventually get provoked to commit the most heinous assaults and crimes.
I want to fly planes.
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

*

berny_74

  • 1786
  • The IceWall! Beat that
Re: Juveniles charged with violent felonies--treat them as adults?
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2011, 07:55:24 AM »
I want to fly planes.

Talk to Thork

Berny
In the end they all get out.
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.