Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?

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doyh

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You cannot use words like "proof" is a reasoned debate

Yes I can. Rowbotham's work has been confirmed and verified by others. Therefore his work meets the status of "proof".

No. Earth Not a Globe proves that the earth is flat. Therefore the shuttle and NASA's other space ventures must be a sham.

Are you suggesting that Rowbotham was infallible in his reasoning?

Rowbotham's work is correct because it has been validated and confirmed by others.

Actually, real scientists have disproved it.
If we would all stop deflecting questions, maybe we could get somewhere.

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Tom Bishop

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When you're on your death bed you have better things to think about -- like your impending death, all the people you will be leaving behind, and who will support your family once you are gone.
If it were me, I'd want the world to know the truth before I die. I don't know, I guess I'm just not that much of a coward.

If it the government is willing to take out ex-NASA employee Thomas Baron's family, what makes you think that they wouldn't be willing to take out yours?

Really Tom? You still think that they murdered him with a train?

Well, either they were murdered or the entire family decided to have a group suicide together by parking their car on some train tracks.

How many family group suicides do you see?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 11:26:21 PM by Tom Bishop »

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General Disarray

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Zeteticism has not contributed anything to the development of humankind.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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markjo

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Well, either they were murdered or the entire family decided to have a group suicide together by parking their car on some train tracks.

Tom, you're ignoring a third possibility:
Quote from: http://www.xmission.com/~jwindley/baron.html
Officially Thomas Baron's death is ruled an accident by the Florida Highway Patrol. The investigating trooper concluded that Baron had tried to beat a train at a crossing. Had Baron been murdered, it would have made more sense to do that before he testified and before he delivered a lengthy report to Congress. Baron had already been known to the press as a sort of whistle-blower and a critic of North American since early 1967 at the latest. To try to "silence" him three months later, after his testimony, is useless.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Beorn

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When you're on your death bed you have better things to think about -- like your impending death, all the people you will be leaving behind, and who will support your family once you are gone.
If it were me, I'd want the world to know the truth before I die. I don't know, I guess I'm just not that much of a coward.

If it the government is willing to take out ex-NASA employee Thomas Baron's family, what makes you think that they wouldn't be willing to take out yours?

Really Tom? You still think that they murdered him with a train?

Well, either they were murdered or the entire family decided to have a group suicide together by parking their car on some train tracks.

How many family group suicides do you see?

There's lots. Usually it's one doing all the suicide dragging the rest with them.
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Only one thing can save our future. Give Thork a BanHammer for Th*rksakes!

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doyh

  • 391
When you're on your death bed you have better things to think about -- like your impending death, all the people you will be leaving behind, and who will support your family once you are gone.
If it were me, I'd want the world to know the truth before I die. I don't know, I guess I'm just not that much of a coward.


If it the government is willing to take out ex-NASA employee Thomas Baron's family, what makes you think that they wouldn't be willing to take out yours?

Really Tom? You still think that they murdered him with a train?

Well, either they were murdered or the entire family decided to have a group suicide together by parking their car on some train tracks.

How many family group suicides do you see?


It wasn't a suicide.

Quote from:  http://www.xmission.com/~jwindley/baron.html
Thomas Baron's death is ruled an accident by the Florida Highway Patrol. The investigating trooper concluded that Baron had tried to beat a train at a crossing.

Quote from:  http://www.xmission.com/~jwindley/baron.html
Didn't Apollo defenders once claim that Baron had committed suicide?

Yes. That report was based on discussions among historians that occurred in about 2002 but was ultimately revealed to be little more than hearsay. Investigative journalist Gary Corsair reports the findings of the Florida Highway Patrol, and has uncovered no evidence of suicide.

This website is quoted several times in the FAQ, so don't you dare tell me that it isn't accurate.
If we would all stop deflecting questions, maybe we could get somewhere.

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Runways...yeah, cos the shuttle can land on just any runway - doesnt need one of the longest in the world at all!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle_Landing_Facility

Since the shuttle is not going into space and since it is not traveling at escape-velocity type speeds, I doubt it needs "one of the longest runways in the world" to land.
Duh, you don't know what escape velocity is? It is the velocity required to leave a planets gravitational field. You can deny gravity, but you can't deny thats what the term means. Even if you meant "reentry speed" that is still wrong, it doesnt land at reentry speed, but a little over 200 knots. It can get up to that speed being dropped off the back of a 747.

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And then to build the stack you need the fourth largest building in the world, but I'm sure there are plenty of those around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_Assembly_Building

The second fuel stack could be built in the same Vehicle Assembly Building.

What are you going to bolt the fuel tank too? Your shuttle is apparently in Africa or Europe. OK, lets say you did build a second one in the VAB, how are you going to sneak 180 foot tall rocket out of the building to a port, put it on a cargo ship, move it across the atlantic, get it off the other end and then still hoist it upright and put your shuttle on it.

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And of course we all know that the shuttle can always launch two weeks or less after it was used. 100% record there, never any technical or weather delays at all.

If there was a delay NASA would just blame it on one of their space projects taking too long. Or a technical issue with re-entry, or they could say that they wanted to wait for weather conditions to improve before re-entry. There a million and one excuses they could give.

Yeah, but you only have maximum 3 weeks of mission time. So lets say the mission is supposed to last 2 weeks. You then try and launch the shuttle back to Florida but something goes wrong. You have a max of one week to fix it, and we know shuttle launches have been delayed far longer than that before.

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You then have to explain why tugs are fetching another set of boosters out of the sea west of Africa. Claim they are just big fireworks maybe?

Why would they need to fetch them out of the water?

Cos the boosters are reuseable. After every launch they send tugs out into the Atlantic to fetch them back. Not something that is easy to hide.

Watch this -

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This is so funny, I can go on picking holes in anything you come back with on this forever. Major FET fail.

You didn't pick any holes.

I have now.
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

From the FAQ - "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence."

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Thevoiceofreason

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I never understood why FE'er stood behind Rowboat.

If we're going to invoke authority, lets invoke the physics  and geo departments of 100+ of the worlds finest universities.
In a battle of scientists, FE simply cannot win against the entire globe

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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
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Well, either they were murdered or the entire family decided to have a group suicide together by parking their car on some train tracks.

Tom, you're ignoring a third possibility:
Quote from: http://www.xmission.com/~jwindley/baron.html
Officially Thomas Baron's death is ruled an accident by the Florida Highway Patrol. The investigating trooper concluded that Baron had tried to beat a train at a crossing. Had Baron been murdered, it would have made more sense to do that before he testified and before he delivered a lengthy report to Congress. Baron had already been known to the press as a sort of whistle-blower and a critic of North American since early 1967 at the latest. To try to "silence" him three months later, after his testimony, is useless.

All streets with train track intersections have train crossings by law. What kind of "accident" did he have?

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Tom Bishop

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Also, in response to your quote, he was murdered after the first congressional hearing because he was scheduled to come back and give more details about his findings. He was to publish a 500 page congressional report the week after his murder which, curiously, was never found.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 08:46:52 PM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Well, either they were murdered or the entire family decided to have a group suicide together by parking their car on some train tracks.

Tom, you're ignoring a third possibility:
Quote from: http://www.xmission.com/~jwindley/baron.html
Officially Thomas Baron's death is ruled an accident by the Florida Highway Patrol. The investigating trooper concluded that Baron had tried to beat a train at a crossing. Had Baron been murdered, it would have made more sense to do that before he testified and before he delivered a lengthy report to Congress. Baron had already been known to the press as a sort of whistle-blower and a critic of North American since early 1967 at the latest. To try to "silence" him three months later, after his testimony, is useless.

All streets with train track intersections have train crossings by law. What kind of "accident" did he have?

Train crossings don't necessarily block traffic when a train is coming, even today.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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doyh

  • 391
He tried to beat the train. It's tragic, but it is also a rather common way to die any not should not be fodder for conspiracy theories.
If we would all stop deflecting questions, maybe we could get somewhere.

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General Disarray

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Zeteticism has not contributed anything to the development of humankind.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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Tom Bishop

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Train crossings don't necessarily block traffic when a train is coming, even today.

Actually, they do.

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Supertails

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Train crossings don't necessarily block traffic when a train is coming, even today.

Actually, they do.
Weird how we have ones that don't, here...oh well, obviously must be an illusion since you're the end-all be-all of train crossings!  Glad we have someone who knows the status of every single crossing in the United States here.  :)
Recently listened to:


Train crossings don't necessarily block traffic when a train is coming, even today.

Actually, they do.

Hey all been lurking for a long time but felt the need to respond to this. I live in a town that used to be very dependent on trains so there is a alot of crossings. A few times a week a train still comes through. Not all the crossings have a way to block traffic. And the ones that do people can still get around them. I have seen this first hand. People are just too impatient. Also there are plenty of videos of this on the internet.

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markjo

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Train crossings don't necessarily block traffic when a train is coming, even today.

Actually, they do.

No, they don't.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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berny_74

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Train crossings don't necessarily block traffic when a train is coming, even today.

Actually, they do.

On the way to Kitchen/Waterloo, nothing blocks traffic

Couldn't get google maps to post the pic so there's the link.
But an easy search shows dozens of unguarded railway crossings.
Quote from: http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page1302.aspx
According to Transport Canada, in 2002, at least 15 people were killed and 14 seriously injured in 77 railway crossing accidents/collisions in Ontario.  When compared to the national average, 30% of 261 railway-crossing accidents/collisions occured in Ontario.

Which means death by train is - not uncommon at all.

Berny
Thinks Tom needs to get out to the country a bit more.


To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

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Supertails

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I think he just needs to stop clinging desperately to a position once he's chosen it.  Being wrong now and then is okay, Tom.  It's normal.  No need to be ashamed.
Recently listened to:


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Tom Bishop

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No, they don't.


All public roads must have gates by law. That road is obviously a little private road leading to someone's farm or something.

Here's an article where the DOT says that all public roads must have gates, but private roads may opt out:

http://www.uticaod.com/news/x98867492/Kentucky-truck-driver-ticketed-after-Yorkville-train-collision
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 04:08:03 PM by Tom Bishop »

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IOA

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That's irrelevant. He still pointed out a single counter-conjecture, so your conjecture is false.

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berny_74

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All public roads must have gates by law. That road is obviously a little private road leading to someone's farm or something.

Here's an article where the DOT says that all public roads must have gates, but private roads may opt out:

http://www.uticaod.com/news/x98867492/Kentucky-truck-driver-ticketed-after-Yorkville-train-collision
From our famous Wikipedia
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All public crossings in the United States are required to be marked by at least a crossbuck; most crossings intersecting rural roads have this setup. If the crossing has more than one railroad track, the crossbuck will usually have a small sign beneath it denoting the number of tracks. As traffic on the road crossing or the rail crossing increases, safety features are increased accordingly. More heavily trafficked crossings have AWDs, with alternately flashing red lights to warn automobile drivers and a bell to warn pedestrians. Additional safety is attained through crossing gates that block automobiles' approach to the tracks when activated. Increasingly, crossings are being fitted with four-quadrant gates to prevent circumventing the gates.

And more on the crossbuck....
Quote from: http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/safety/technical_working_group/twg_part_1.pdf
1.  A crossbuck is a type of YIELD sign: the driver should be prepared to
stop at least 4.5 m (15 ft) before the near rail if necessary, unless and
until the driver can make a reasonable decision that there are no trains
in hazardous proximity to the crossing, and it is safe to cross.

A further look at the article we take a look......
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Paragraph (c) of this section
establishes that the private crossings
within a quiet zone must at a minimum
be equipped with crossbucks and
??STOP?? signs conforming to MUTCD
standards together with advance
warning signs in compliance with
? 222.35(c).

The "minimum" requirement for private crossings.

I think he just needs to stop clinging desperately to a position once he's chosen it.  Being wrong now and then is okay, Tom.  It's normal.  No need to be ashamed.

Stop beating the dead horse.

Berny
Really - get out MORE.
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

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markjo

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Here's an article where the DOT says that all public roads must have gates, but private roads may opt out:

http://www.uticaod.com/news/x98867492/Kentucky-truck-driver-ticketed-after-Yorkville-train-collision

First of all, it was a state, not the federal, DoT mentioned in that article.  Secondly, please provide evidence that there were laws requiring gates at railroad crossing on public roads in Florida in effect at the time of Tomas Baron's death.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Tausami

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Honestly, Tom. You're desecrating a man's memory with conspiracy theories. Specifically, a man who arguably saved countless lives by exposing NASA's  lax safety regulations. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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theonlydann

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Trains. They're awesome.

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Around And About

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"Trains are blameless, holy creatures."
I'm not black nor a thug, I'm more like god who will bring 7 plagues of flat earth upon your ass.

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gotham

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"Railway termini are our gates to the glorious and the unknown. Through them we pass out into adventure and sunshine, to them, alas! we return."

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Hessy

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All public roads must have gates by law. That road is obviously a little private road leading to someone's farm or something.

You're assuming (incorrectly) that the law is followed everywhere by everyone.

I can also personally testify that some private AND public roads do not have gates, etc. on railroad intersections.

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sillyrob

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Zeteticism has given us this website and the ability to get drunk and have fun on it from time to time!


Preemptive reported for being drunk on the internet.

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markjo

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All public roads must have gates by law. That road is obviously a little private road leading to someone's farm or something.

You're assuming (incorrectly) that the law is followed everywhere by everyone.

He's also assuming (incorrectly) that the law was in effect in Florida in 1967.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.