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Are my questions valid?

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Voting closed: August 30, 2006, 06:19:50 AM

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Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked

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troy2000

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Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« on: August 30, 2006, 06:19:50 AM »
Firstly, I am definitely NOT an FE'er.  

I have seen TWO Shuttle launches first-hand.  No Internet TV, Sky Digital or any other of those services.  

It seems aparent that FE'ers are quite capable of inventing an answer to any of these questions, so I am most likely wasting my time posting this.

If, as you say, the world is entirely flat (which I know it is not), attempt to answer these questions.

1: Why does the Shuttle launch at an angle? (I know that this is because it require movement so that its orbit does not decay)

2: What happens to the Shuttle after launch? (I know it enters orbit)  

3: How does it re-enter the Earth's atmosphere and land?

4: A new devision of Virgin, Virgin Galactic has launch and is offering public trips into a sub-orbit where the customer will experience zero-gavity.  Do you honesty believe that the people who have used this service are lying.
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flat_brain_theory

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2006, 06:49:30 AM »
Quote from: "troy2000"


4: A new devision of Virgin, Virgin Galactic has launch and is offering public trips into a sub-orbit where the customer will experience zero-gavity.



Lol, we have to pay for some flat earthers to go on a virgin space flight....

and press their fat empty head against the glass and simply say....."look"
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TheEngineer

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2006, 08:47:31 AM »
Quote from: "flat_brain_theory"

Lol, we have to pay for some flat earthers to go on a virgin space flight....

and press their fat empty head against the glass and simply say....."look"

I will volunteer.  Send me the money and I will go as soon as they start service.
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Erasmus

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2006, 08:56:55 AM »
Quote from: "troy2000"
1: Why does the Shuttle launch at an angle?


To fool you into thinking you know what you think you know.

Quote
2: What happens to the Shuttle after launch?


It goes up for a while.  Eventually, it lands.

Quote
3: How does it re-enter the Earth's atmosphere and land?


That question assumes that it leaves the earth's atmosphere to begin with.

Quote
4: A new devision of Virgin, Virgin Galactic has launch and is offering public trips into a sub-orbit where the customer will experience zero-gavity.  Do you honesty believe that the people who have used this service are lying.


Zero gravity does not contradict FE.  It's how they make movies about astronauts, and is not even a secret.
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semperround

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Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2006, 09:21:28 AM »
Quote from: "Earsmus"
It goes up for a while. Eventually, it lands.


were does it land?
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troy2000

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2006, 10:01:10 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "troy2000"
1: Why does the Shuttle launch at an angle?


To fool you into thinking you know what you think you know.

Quote
2: What happens to the Shuttle after launch?


It goes up for a while.  Eventually, it lands.

Quote
3: How does it re-enter the Earth's atmosphere and land?


That question assumes that it leaves the earth's atmosphere to begin with.

Quote
4: A new devision of Virgin, Virgin Galactic has launch and is offering public trips into a sub-orbit where the customer will experience zero-gavity.  Do you honesty believe that the people who have used this service are lying.


Zero gravity does not contradict FE.  It's how they make movies about astronauts, and is not even a secret.


Here is one of the many things which I don't understand about the FE theory:

If the Earth is flat, and it is travelling at the speed of light to generate gravity, then why, after the first few moments would gravity still exist?  It's against the laws of physics  :roll:.  "An object in motion remains in motion."  Therefore, unless the planet was continually accellerating, there would be no gravity.

Here is another point I wish to make:

You say that when you look through a telescope at the Moon.  You see a two dimensional image.  However, if you observe such things as creators are other distubances on the surface, you will clearly see that they bend out of sight.  This definitely indicates that the moon IS a sphere.  If you don't believe me, then take a look at these images:  





Here is one of Mars:



This proof cannot be denied.

 :D
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flat_brain_theory

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2006, 10:53:30 AM »
Quote from: "troy2000"

This proof cannot be denied.

 :D



neither can pig ignorance
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troy2000

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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2006, 11:02:05 AM »
Was that remark at me or Erasmus?
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flat_brain_theory

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Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2006, 11:38:31 AM »
not you troy....nice post.


its to FEers
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dysfunction

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2006, 11:46:08 AM »
Quote from: "troy2000"
Here is one of the many things which I don't understand about the FE theory:

If the Earth is flat, and it is travelling at the speed of light to generate gravity, then why, after the first few moments would gravity still exist?  It's against the laws of physics  :roll:.  "An object in motion remains in motion."  Therefore, unless the planet was continually accellerating, there would be no gravity.


The Earth never travels at the speed of light- it is continually accelerating (in the FE model, to which I do not subscribe, btw), but as it approaches lightspeed its acceleration slows along an asymptotic curve. However, even though its acceleration may be slowing relative to some objects, from the frame of reference of observers on the Earth, Earth never approaches lightspeed, and thus from our vantage point its acceleration would seem to remain constant. Don't bother disputing this- I did originally, and it took 12 pages of discussion to convince me that I was wrong.
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troy2000

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ok
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2006, 12:01:41 PM »
I wonder how long it will take the FE'ers to come up with an explanation for those images :D.  Another excellent way which could disprove the flatness of other planets, would be to post some stereoscopic images :wink:
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Curious

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2006, 12:07:24 PM »
Quote from: dysfunction
Earth never approaches lightspeed, and thus from our vantage point its acceleration would seem to remain constant. Don't bother disputing this- I did originally, and it took 12 pages of discussion to convince me that I was wrong.


Too bad you gave up the good fight.

Acceleration is a change of velocity over time.  If there is to be the affect to simulate gravity due to acceleration, then time dialation is also a factor.  Just  "as it approaches lightspeed its acceleration slows along an asymptotic curve" so does the rate at which time passes.  The Universe would need to exist for an infinite time span for this to work, and most current theories do not allow for this, if for no other reason then entropy and the application of thermodynamics.
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dysfunction

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Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2006, 12:18:33 PM »
But time isn't dilated from the perspective of observers on the Earth. Go ask the guys at physicsforums.com, they support the FEers on this particular point. Here's the thread I posted asking about it there:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=129832
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qwerty789

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Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2006, 03:26:24 PM »
HA-HA

Gosh this must be a weird feeling for you dsyfunction. Sure is funny debating people who *KNOW* they must be absolutely right.  :D

By the way, for anyone interested, this explanation is actually stickied. Not the 12 pages he's talking about (because 11.5 of them are irrelevant), but another thread I even missed completely till now.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3152
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qwerty789

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2006, 03:35:32 PM »
Quote from: "troy2000"
1: Why does the Shuttle launch at an angle? (I know that this is because it require movement so that its orbit does not decay)


So your proof that the Earth is round, is that the shuttle launches at an angle? Because of course, otherwise it would explode or something, so that can't be fake or unrelated, right?

Quote from: "troy2000"
2: What happens to the Shuttle after launch? (I know it enters orbit) )


It's a plane. What do you think it does? It goes up, flies for a bit, and then lands out of your sight.

Quote from: "troy2000"
3: How does it re-enter the Earth's atmosphere and land?


Mu

Quote from: "troy2000"
4: A new devision of Virgin, Virgin Galactic has launch and is offering public trips into a sub-orbit where the customer will experience zero-gavity.  Do you honesty believe that the people who have used this service are lying.


No, not at all, because this working has nothing to do with the earth being flat or round, but simply based on the idea of freefall. A good point is that they won't experience zero-gravity. Just like astronauts aren't weightless. You have to go an infinite distance away from the earth to not feel its gravity.
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troy2000

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2006, 01:17:48 PM »
Quote from: "qwerty789"
Quote from: "troy2000"
1: Why does the Shuttle launch at an angle? (I know that this is because it require movement so that its orbit does not decay)


So your proof that the Earth is round, is that the shuttle launches at an angle? Because of course, otherwise it would explode or something, so that can't be fake or unrelated, right?

Quote from: "troy2000"
2: What happens to the Shuttle after launch? (I know it enters orbit) )


It's a plane. What do you think it does? It goes up, flies for a bit, and then lands out of your sight.

Quote from: "troy2000"
3: How does it re-enter the Earth's atmosphere and land?


Mu

Quote from: "troy2000"
4: A new devision of Virgin, Virgin Galactic has launch and is offering public trips into a sub-orbit where the customer will experience zero-gavity.  Do you honesty believe that the people who have used this service are lying.


No, not at all, because this working has nothing to do with the earth being flat or round, but simply based on the idea of freefall. A good point is that they won't experience zero-gravity. Just like astronauts aren't weightless. You have to go an infinite distance away from the earth to not feel its gravity.


First of all, the Space Shuttle is most definitely NOT a plane.  Second, it is clear to me that no-matter what evidence I give for the Earth being round, you will deny its truthfulness.  However, if u took the time to examine those images I posted, then u would plainly see that what I attempted to explain.  One undefeatable fact here, is that if the Earth really were flat (which it is not), then people would be saying "all this is a conspiracy" as well  :roll:.  Do you agree dysfunction?
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dysfunction

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Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2006, 01:27:41 PM »
Not really- nothing about the Space Shuttle launching definitively "proves" that it really goes into space. To debate these guys, you pretty much have to provide evidence they can verify themselves with absolutely no reliance on anyone else- otherwise they will just claim conspiracy. If there is a conspiracy, the Shuttle is fake. So your points about the Shuttle are pretty much moot, as far as being useful in this debate.
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EnragedPenguin

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Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2006, 01:40:40 PM »
Quote from: "dysfunction"
To debate these guys, you pretty much have to provide evidence they can verify themselves with absolutely no reliance on anyone else.


This is because the flat Earth theory uses the "Zetetic" method.
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CrimsonKing

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Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2006, 01:47:08 PM »
Its like the Scientific method, only better
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qwerty789

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2006, 02:18:59 PM »
Quote from: "troy2000"
First of all, the Space Shuttle is most definitely NOT a plane


Oh really?

And why is that? I consider the space shuttle to be a fixed winged aircraft propelled by jets or propellers. How does this make it NOT a plane? The fact that it has LANDING GEAR only makes you look that much more wrong.

Here's NASA testing the shuttles atmospheric flight capabilities:



Quote from: "troy2000"
Second, it is clear to me that no-matter what evidence


Hmm. I should respond with mu again, but this one isn't a question. How could you possibly know my reaction to real evidence? What you presented in no way demostrates the earth is round. Hell, it doesn't even demostrate that the shuttle goes anywhere but above the cloud line for a short time.
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troy2000

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ok
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2006, 02:51:39 PM »
The Shuttle does not use jets or propellers.  Also, if you really knew the Shuttle's atmospheric flight capabillities, then you would also know that it handles like a brick.  It was designed to be used primarily in space.  It only uses wings to allow it to navigate when it re-enters the Earth's atmosphere(and you doubt it even leaves this).  The Shuttle has no powered flight while in the atmosphere.  This does not sound like a plane to me.

Next time you are in a plane at high altitude.  Try looking out the window.  You will clearly see the curvaure of the Earth.

According to the FE theory, there are no satellites, correct?  Tonight, if the sky is clear look at the stars for a while and you will shortly see at least two little white specs moving in straight lines and eventually disappearing.  These are called SATELLITES.  I have often done this.  One night I actually saw the Space Station with my telescope in detail.  These are things which you can validate for yourself and you will see that I am correct.
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dysfunction

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Re: ok
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2006, 02:54:44 PM »
Quote from: "troy2000"
The Shuttle does not use jets or propellers.  Also, if you really knew the Shuttle's atmospheric flight capabillities, then you would also know that it handles like a brick.  It was designed to be used primarily in space.  It only uses wings to allow it to navigate when it re-enters the Earth's atmosphere(and you doubt it even leaves this).  The Shuttle has no powered flight while in the atmosphere.  This does not sound like a plane to me.


It still doesn't prove anything. Of course I already believe the Shuttle really does go into space, but just because the Shuttle is built as if it were intended to go into space doesn't mean it actually can or does.
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qwerty789

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Re: ok
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2006, 02:56:59 PM »
Quote from: "troy2000"
The Shuttle does not use jets or propellers.  Also, if you really knew the Shuttle's atmospheric flight capabillities, then you would also know that it handles like a brick.  It was designed to be used primarily in space.  It only uses wings to allow it to navigate when it re-enters the Earth's atmosphere(and you doubt it even leaves this).  The Shuttle has no powered flight while in the atmosphere.  This does not sound like a plane to me.


Oh yes it does:



How those aren't 'jets' to you is hilarious.

Also, just because you made a BAD PLANE doesn't mean it still isn't a PLANE. It has wings, and goes through the air. It's a plane.
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Bugman

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Re: ok
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2006, 03:01:07 PM »
Quote from: "qwerty789"
Quote from: "troy2000"
The Shuttle does not use jets or propellers.  Also, if you really knew the Shuttle's atmospheric flight capabillities, then you would also know that it handles like a brick.  It was designed to be used primarily in space.  It only uses wings to allow it to navigate when it re-enters the Earth's atmosphere(and you doubt it even leaves this).  The Shuttle has no powered flight while in the atmosphere.  This does not sound like a plane to me.


Oh yes it does:



How those aren't 'jets' to you is hilarious.

Also, just because you made a BAD PLANE doesn't mean it still isn't a PLANE. It has wings, and goes through the air. It's a plane.


I think he is quibbling the difference between jet engines and rocket engines. However,  there is nothing to prevent an aircraft from having a rocket engine, though it may not be ideal.
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dysfunction

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Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2006, 03:02:21 PM »
Especially since a number of planes in history have had rocket engines; the two are not mutually exclusive.
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Bugman

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Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2006, 03:04:35 PM »
Quote from: "dysfunction"
Especially since a number of planes in history have had rocket engines; the two are not mutually exclusive.


I thought they had, but I wasn't sure, so I checked up on the X-15, which apparently did.
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qwerty789

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Re: ok
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2006, 03:13:04 PM »
Quote from: "troy2000"
Next time you are in a plane at high altitude.  Try looking out the window.  You will clearly see the curvaure of the Earth.


OMG, YOU'RE SO RIGHT! How could I have missed that for so long?



It's like looking at a blue/green basketball!  :lol:
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qwerty789

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Space Shuttle Launch - Cannot Be Faked
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2006, 03:14:11 PM »
Quote from: "Bugman"
Quote from: "dysfunction"
Especially since a number of planes in history have had rocket engines; the two are not mutually exclusive.


I thought they had, but I wasn't sure, so I checked up on the X-15, which apparently did.


Oh, it's nothing as classified as the X line. Think mid F-line

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troy2000

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3d
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2006, 03:15:19 PM »
Images do not seem to help w prove anything here as many people assume they are fake and CG.  However, I happen to work in CG.  I know what the limits are.  No CG image can possibly be this realistic.  By todays level of technology it is impossible.  But decide for yourself:



This is what I mean at a high altitude:



See the curve?  It really couldn't be any clearer :)
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Bugman

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Re: 3d
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2006, 03:18:21 PM »
Quote from: "troy2000"
Images do not seem to help w prove anything here as many people assume they are fake and CG.  However, I happen to work in CG.  I know what the limits are.  No CG image can possibly be this realistic.  By todays level of technology it is impossible.  But decide for yourself:



Well, that looks conclusive.
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