An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.

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Toomanychars

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An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« on: January 16, 2011, 10:13:20 PM »
This can't really be done by anyone but it's not hard to do by someone willing enough and it has been done many times.

1. Get a decent telescope
2. Go to a port
3. Watch the boats as they travel away from you
4. Watch as the water seems to rise and rise and eventually engulf the boat
5. Think "Is every boat going out there sinking or are they traveling along a sphere?"
6. Choose the logical choice
7. You now know that the Earth is round.

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New Earth

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2011, 11:10:23 PM »
I never considered boats on the horizon to be a valid argument. Humans don't have eagle's vision, the further the object is the harder it is to see. That is true in round or flat earth models. If something is moving away from you, eventually you gonna loose sight of it, that has nothing to do with curvature of the earth and it does not prove that the earth is round. If you go to Chicago and visit Sears Tower, you can take an elevator to the top floor, which is over a thousand feet high and there is an observation deck from where you can see the whole city, on a clear day you can even see Wisconsin. You can see everything in the radius of about 40 or so miles, but anything further then that you can't see. That has nothing to do with a sphere but just a matter of distance. On a flat earth it will be the same way, at about certain distance your eye sight simply incapable to observe any further.
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Toomanychars

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2011, 11:48:14 PM »
I never considered boats on the horizon to be a valid argument. Humans don't have eagle's vision, the further the object is the harder it is to see. That is true in round or flat earth models. If something is moving away from you, eventually you gonna loose sight of it, that has nothing to do with curvature of the earth and it does not prove that the earth is round. If you go to Chicago and visit Sears Tower, you can take an elevator to the top floor, which is over a thousand feet high and there is an observation deck from where you can see the whole city, on a clear day you can even see Wisconsin. You can see everything in the radius of about 40 or so miles, but anything further then that you can't see. That has nothing to do with a sphere but just a matter of distance. On a flat earth it will be the same way, at about certain distance your eye sight simply incapable to observe any further.

Then how do we see stars from distant galaxies? If photons from millions of light years away can reach our eyes then i'm sure ones from 100 miles away can as well. And anyway i wasn't talking about the boat simply dissapearing, i was talking about the sea level seemingly rising and engulfing the boat which does involve it disappearing but the most important part is the sea level seemingly rising.

Also, you do realize what a telescope does don't you?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 11:50:02 PM by Toomanychars »

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New Earth

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2011, 12:55:50 AM »
In a flat earth model the stars are not millions of light years away, they are actually very close to the earth.  Actually yes you made a very good observation. If the stars were indeed millions of light years away we couldn't even see them, so yes flat earth model wins.


Also yes I know what telescope does, it makes an astronomer glaze into nothingness of space. Think about this for a second; They've been looking at the stars for centuries now and they found nothing of value. Perhaps they are doing something wrong?
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Nolhekh

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2011, 04:44:24 AM »
I never considered boats on the horizon to be a valid argument. Humans don't have eagle's vision, the further the object is the harder it is to see. That is true in round or flat earth models. If something is moving away from you, eventually you gonna loose sight of it, that has nothing to do with curvature of the earth and it does not prove that the earth is round. If you go to Chicago and visit Sears Tower, you can take an elevator to the top floor, which is over a thousand feet high and there is an observation deck from where you can see the whole city, on a clear day you can even see Wisconsin. You can see everything in the radius of about 40 or so miles, but anything further then that you can't see. That has nothing to do with a sphere but just a matter of distance. On a flat earth it will be the same way, at about certain distance your eye sight simply incapable to observe any further.

You clearly have no understanding of human vision or perspective.  If the boat is going too far to see, it will appear to shrink proportionally in all dimensions before "vanishing."  This is not the case for the sinking ship effect.  In the sinking ship effect, the vertical dimension diminishes faster in proportion than the horizontal dimension, suggesting that the water is obstructing the lower part of the ship.
If our vision is limited to 40 miles as you suggest, then how come we're able to see the sun from 3000 miles away?

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Toomanychars

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2011, 07:26:43 AM »
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In a flat earth model the stars are not millions of light years away, they are actually very close to the earth.  Actually yes you made a very good observation. If the stars were indeed millions of light years away we couldn't even see them, so yes flat earth model wins.

So we Can't see the sun either? or is it 50 miles away in FET?

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Also yes I know what telescope does, it makes an astronomer glaze into nothingness of space. Think about this for a second; They've been looking at the stars for centuries now and they found nothing of value. Perhaps they are doing something wrong?

LOL, just when i thought u couldn't possibly get any more of an idiot you just did, you don't even know how telescopes work and on top of that you don't know all the advancements that astronomy has made in science.

You clearly have no understanding of human vision or perspective.  If the boat is going too far to see, it will appear to shrink proportionally in all dimensions before "vanishing."  This is not the case for the sinking ship effect.  In the sinking ship effect, the vertical dimension diminishes faster in proportion than the horizontal dimension, suggesting that the water is obstructing the lower part of the ship.
If our vision is limited to 40 miles as you suggest, then how come we're able to see the sun from 3000 miles away?

After listening to that idiot, New Earth blabber on about his nonsense it's nice to see someone who knows what they are talking about.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 07:32:04 AM by Toomanychars »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2011, 09:55:05 AM »
What's an expiremnt?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 12:06:26 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Toomanychars

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2011, 02:40:28 PM »
What's an expiremnt?

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A test under controlled conditions that is made to demonstrate a known truth, examine the validity of a hypothesis, or determine the efficacy of something previously untried.

the conditions are arguably controlled so it would be classified as an experiment.

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parsec

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2011, 02:42:22 PM »
What's an expiremnt?

Quote
A test under controlled conditions that is made to demonstrate a known truth, examine the validity of a hypothesis, or determine the efficacy of something previously untried.

where is this quote from?

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Toomanychars

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2011, 02:59:31 PM »
where is this quote from?

Thefreedictionary.com

If you don't consider it a good enough of a source here are some more definitions from various sources.

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a tentative procedure or policy

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an operation or procedure carried out under controlled conditions in order to discover an unknown effect or law, to test or establish a hypothesis, or to illustrate a known law

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a test, trial, or tentative procedure; an act or operation for the purpose of discovering something unknown or of testing a principle, supposition, etc

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the conducting of such operations; experimentation

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Atrial or special observation, made to confirm or disprove something doubtful; esp., one under conditions determined by the experimenter; an act or operation undertaken in order to discover some unknown principle or effect, or to test, establish, or illustrate some suggest or known truth; practical test; poof.

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a test or trial of something

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parsec

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2011, 03:05:37 PM »
where is this quote from?

Thefreedictionary.com

If you don't consider it a good enough of a source here are some more definitions from various sources.

Quote
a tentative procedure or policy

Quote
an operation or procedure carried out under controlled conditions in order to discover an unknown effect or law, to test or establish a hypothesis, or to illustrate a known law

Quote
a test, trial, or tentative procedure; an act or operation for the purpose of discovering something unknown or of testing a principle, supposition, etc

Quote
the conducting of such operations; experimentation

Quote
Atrial or special observation, made to confirm or disprove something doubtful; esp., one under conditions determined by the experimenter; an act or operation undertaken in order to discover some unknown principle or effect, or to test, establish, or illustrate some suggest or known truth; practical test; poof.

Quote
a test or trial of something


Could you provide a link to the particular entries?

Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2011, 03:09:57 PM »
None of those definitions are for an 'expiremnt'

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Toomanychars

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2011, 03:13:30 PM »
Could you provide a link to the particular entries?

Learn to use Google please.

None of those definitions are for an 'expiremnt'

Actually all of them are, just because your definition of an experiment is different doesn't mean it's the correct one. Anyway, the definition of an experiment is not the subject here, If you want to discuss that please start a new topic.

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New Earth

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2011, 03:14:39 PM »
There are many questions, why can we only see 40 miles into the distance while standing on top of sears tower? And why can we see the sun and the stars which are millions and billions of miles away? Those questions are valid, but you will have to ask the designer of this universe to explain this to you, not me. Science fails to explain this as well.

I can think of few things thou; in a round earth model, the sun is extremely large, and each star in the sky is also a sun, some are thousands times bigger then our sun, some are billion times bigger then our sun, such as Canis Majoris (excuse my spelling) so because of their immense size we can see them as little dots in the sky, why is it so confusing to you? In a flat earth model, the sun and the stars are very close to the earth's surface. So how does this disprove bendy light on a flat earth?

On another note; Astronomy achieved nothing. Name one useful discovery that they achieved for the mankind?
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Toomanychars

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2011, 03:26:55 PM »
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There are many questions, why can we only see 40 miles into the distance while standing on top of sears tower? And why can we see the sun and the stars which are millions and billions of miles away? Those questions are valid, but you will have to ask the designer of this universe to explain this to you, not me. Science fails to explain this as well.

I prefer not to spend my time chatting with nonexistent entities, last time i checked i wasn't insane. And actually Science does explain it, you just fail to understand science. There are many more photons released by the stars than bouncing off objects on Earth so there is a much higher probability that photons from stars will pass through certain obstacles such as gases.

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I can think of few things thou; in a round earth model, the sun is extremely large, and each star in the sky is also a sun, some are thousands times bigger then our sun, some are billion times bigger then our sun, such as Canis Majoris (excuse my spelling) so because of their immense size we can see them as little dots in the sky, why is it so confusing to you? In a flat earth model, the sun and the stars are very close to the earth's surface. So how does this disprove bendy light on a flat earth?

As I've mentioned before this has nothing to do with how far humans can see, there are telescopes for a reason. I'm talking about the ocean seemingly engulfing the ship, but you obviously have no argument for that and so you stray off topic so people won't see that you are wrong.

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On another note; Astronomy achieved nothing. Name one useful discovery that they achieved for the mankind?

They have helped us understand the Universe, esp. the different formation out there, how they form and how they effect very important variables in physics like light and its properties. Knowledge is the jewel of mankind.

BTW, as a heads up i'm ignoring all your posts from now on because you are either a troll or a complete idiot.

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parsec

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2011, 03:28:04 PM »
Could you provide a link to the particular entries?

Learn to use Google please.

http://tinyurl.com/5u9sgtb

Yay! Your thread is the third result (at least for me).

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Nolhekh

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2011, 04:28:53 PM »
There are many questions, why can we only see 40 miles into the distance while standing on top of sears tower? And why can we see the sun and the stars which are millions and billions of miles away? Those questions are valid, but you will have to ask the designer of this universe to explain this to you, not me. Science fails to explain this as well.
mathematics can be used to explain these things.
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I can think of few things though; in a round earth model, the sun is extremely large, and each star in the sky is also a sun, some are thousands times bigger then our sun, some are billion times bigger then our sun, such as Canis Majoris (excuse my spelling) so because of their immense size we can see them as little dots in the sky, why is it so confusing to you? In a flat earth model, the sun and the stars are very close to the earth's surface. So how does this disprove bendy light on a flat earth?
You seemed to have answered them quite nicely right there.  Although bendy light was not your original argument :
Humans don't have eagle's vision, the further the object is the harder it is to see. That is true in round or flat earth models. If something is moving away from you, eventually you gonna loose sight of it, that has nothing to do with curvature of the earth and it does not prove that the earth is round.
You argued in simple terms that perspective was causing the sinking ship phenomenon, which I pointed out can't be true, because perspective causes objects to diminish proportionally, while the sinking ship phenomenon causes the vertical dimension to shrink proportionally faster than the horizontal.
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On another note; Astronomy achieved nothing. Name one useful discovery that they achieved for the mankind?
How useful the achievements of astronomy are to mankind have no impact on the validity of its discoveries.

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New Earth

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2011, 04:40:16 PM »
You can ignore me if it pleases you, but your argument for sinking ship is flawed. You stated that if human vision is limited how come we can see the distant stars? We argue for the flat earth model, and in a flat earth model the stars are close to the earth they are not millions of years away, by this model your argument is irrelevant.  In a flat earth model if you stand on the beach and you watch the ships drift further away, eventually they get far enough and you loose sight of them, this does not prove that the earth is round, it proves that our eye sight is limited.

As far as astronomy goes, its a waste of tax payer's dollars. They haven't made one discovery that they were able to prove. In a round earth model the stars are suns, and even astronomers agree that all these suns are very different from each other, some stars are red, blue, yellow, they vary in size as well. So if this is the case then why do they all appear to look the same in the night sky? Surely each star must look different to even our naked eye, since their properties are different. So right there astronomers completely fail to explain this. They say those suns all very diverse in their composition yet from the earth they all look the same, this is a major flaw in logic and common sense. Flat earth theory explains a lot more reasonably the true reality of what stars really are.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2011, 04:43:41 PM »
None of those definitions are for an 'expiremnt'

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New Earth

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2011, 04:46:54 PM »
None of those definitions are for an 'expiremnt'


Exactly, just because the ship disappears beyond horizon does not prove that the earth is round, it just proves you are incapable of seeing any further, thats all that it proves.
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berny_74

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2011, 05:04:33 PM »
None of those definitions are for an 'expiremnt'


Exactly, just because the ship disappears beyond horizon does not prove that the earth is round, it just proves you are incapable of seeing any further, thats all that it proves.

They are not argueing with your points - they are mocking you for misspelling experiment.  You obviously need to learn that some FE'ers care less about actual debate or knowledge as in putting down others.

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To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
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Nolhekh

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2011, 05:20:16 PM »
You can ignore me if it pleases you, but your argument for sinking ship is flawed. You stated that if human vision is limited how come we can see the distant stars? We argue for the flat earth model, and in a flat earth model the stars are close to the earth they are not millions of years away, by this model your argument is irrelevant.  In a flat earth model if you stand on the beach and you watch the ships drift further away, eventually they get far enough and you loose sight of them, this does not prove that the earth is round, it proves that our eye sight is limited.
In reality, through a telescope one can observe the ships' dimensions shrinking disproportionally.  This is not due to perspective as you claim here
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Humans don't have eagle's vision, the further the object is the harder it is to see. That is true in round or flat earth models. If something is moving away from you, eventually you gonna loose sight of it, that has nothing to do with curvature of the earth and it does not prove that the earth is round.
 That is the sole argument I'm interested in making.

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As far as astronomy goes, its a waste of tax payer's dollars. They haven't made one discovery that they were able to prove. In a round earth model the stars are suns, and even astronomers agree that all these suns are very different from each other, some stars are red, blue, yellow, they vary in size as well. So if this is the case then why do they all appear to look the same in the night sky? Surely each star must look different to even our naked eye, since their properties are different. So right there astronomers completely fail to explain this. They say those suns all very diverse in their composition yet from the earth they all look the same, this is a major flaw in logic and common sense. Flat earth theory explains a lot more reasonably the true reality of what stars really are.
Well they certainly vary in brightness, which accounts for their distances and sizes.  As for the colours, they aren't colours we can distinguish with the unaided eye.  They have to be detected through a spectroscope, which can also help to determine star composition.  This information was very easy to research.  Why weren't you able to find it?  You claimed there was no explanation, and easily I found one.  This looks like an obvious case of ignorance.
As for the merits of astronomy. I will not comment as you can easily find out for yourself.  Hint: Asteroids; Dinosaurs: Extinction; could happen again.

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New Earth

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2011, 05:34:00 PM »
Don't you think its a bit arrogant for scientists to claim that dinosaurs were wiped out by a comet? There can literally be millions of reasons why dinosaurs disappeared but science does not recognize any other reason but a comet? Don't you see how cocky and ignorant the science really is? The only way to tell what happened is to invent a time machine and tavel back in time to find out, this event happened millions of years ago and scientists claim this as if they were witnessing it live, the nerve of these people will never cease to amaze me.
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Nolhekh

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2011, 05:46:37 PM »
Don't you think its a bit arrogant for scientists to claim that dinosaurs were wiped out by a comet? There can literally be millions of reasons why dinosaurs disappeared but science does not recognize any other reason but a comet? Don't you see how cocky and ignorant the science really is? The only way to tell what happened is to invent a time machine and tavel back in time to find out, this event happened millions of years ago and scientists claim this as if they were witnessing it live, the nerve of these people will never cease to amaze me.

They claim it was a comet because all the evidence they've found points to it being a comet.  If it didn't, they would find something else.  Scientists do also recognize that the earth was in a state of cooling just before the comet struck, so don't think they haven't considered alternative explanations.  The comet theory actually took quite a long time to come up with.  Before, they guessed it was an asteroid.  But later evidence pointed more towards it being a comet.  Nice to see you atually looked and found out it was a comet and didn't take my word for it being an asteroid.  Regardless of what wiped out the dinosaurs, asteroid / comet impacts are still very possible and would do at least enough damage that their prevention is worth investing in.  The same goes for coronal mass ejections.   There's something for you to look up.

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markjo

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2011, 05:53:38 PM »
Wonders why Mods let it happen so often

Especially in the upper, "serious" forums.  ::)
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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New Earth

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2011, 07:27:09 PM »

[/quote]

They claim it was a comet because all the evidence they've found points to it being a comet.  If it didn't, they would find something else.  Scientists do also recognize that the earth was in a state of cooling just before the comet struck, so don't think they haven't considered alternative explanations.  The comet theory actually took quite a long time to come up with.  Before, they guessed it was an asteroid.  But later evidence pointed more towards it being a comet.  Nice to see you atually looked and found out it was a comet and didn't take my word for it being an asteroid.  Regardless of what wiped out the dinosaurs, asteroid / comet impacts are still very possible and would do at least enough damage that their prevention is worth investing in.  The same goes for coronal mass ejections.   There's something for you to look up.
[/quote]

Dude I have BA from one of the best colleges in Chicago. You are treating me like I'm some kid without any knowledge! Something that happened millions of years ago has no evidence, REMEBER THAT! Something that happened this long ago can be only be theorized. In my years of spenidng time in academia I realized two things; Science is often not very scientific. Science is often very political. Examples; Theory of Evolution and the beginning of all life in Africa.
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markjo

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2011, 07:30:32 PM »
Examples; Theory of Evolution and the beginning of all life in Africa.

Check me if I'm wrong, but isn't it just human life that is believed to begin in Africa?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Nolhekh

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2011, 07:42:38 PM »
You stated that if human vision is limited how come we can see the distant stars? We argue for the flat earth model, and in a flat earth model the stars are close to the earth they are not millions of years away.
  They are still at least thousands of miles away in the flat earth model: much further than the 40 miles or so you gave for the "limit of human vision".

Just so you know, distance is not a limiting factor for human vision.  The limiting factors are angular size - too small an angular size will not resolve as a distinct shape on the retina - and brightness - If enough photons emitted or reflected by the object come into contact with the retina, they will be detected regardless of angular size.

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Nolhekh

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2011, 08:00:20 PM »
Dude I have BA from one of the best colleges in Chicago. You are treating me like I'm some kid without any knowledge! Something that happened millions of years ago has no evidence, REMEBER THAT! Something that happened this long ago can be only be theorized. In my years of spenidng time in academia I realized two things; Science is often not very scientific. Science is often very political. Examples; Theory of Evolution and the beginning of all life in Africa.
Education is often very political. Why should I give the education system at your college any more credit than you give to science?

http://www.universetoday.com/58792/scientists-come-to-a-conclusion-asteroid-killed-the-dinosaurs/
This article describes in some detail the "evidence" you're looking for.

As for the beginning of all life in Africa, as far as I know life began in the ocean.  Evolution has loads of evidence as well.  However, I'm not here to debate about dinosaurs, biogenesis, or evolution.  Further posts on those subjects in this thread will be ignored.

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squevil

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Re: An expiremnt to prove the Earth is round.
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2011, 09:50:12 PM »
New Earth get your facts strait.
firstly next time the stars are oiut check out orion you can clearly see the stars are different colours, some blue and other bright orange.
secondly as im aware nobody has ever said that a comet killed off the dinosaurs is 100% sure but its a possibility. my theory would be climate change or something if they were cold blooded but who knows