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Weightless Astronauts

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doyh

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Weightless Astronauts
« on: January 08, 2011, 04:55:11 PM »
How are astronauts able to be weightless in space on camera if they are unable to get there?
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Ski

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2011, 04:56:36 PM »
Underwater filming, vomit comet, special effects...
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doyh

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2011, 04:58:38 PM »
Quote from: Ski on January 08, 2011, 04:56:36 PM
Underwater filming, vomit comet, special effects...

I mean while they're in the space shuttle without suits on.
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Ski

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2011, 05:02:20 PM »
Vomit comet, special effects...
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Danukenator123

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2011, 05:47:38 PM »
Quote from: Ski on January 08, 2011, 05:02:20 PM
Vomit comet, special effects...

...Proof?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2011, 05:55:59 PM »
Quote from: Danukenator123 on January 08, 2011, 05:47:38 PM
Quote from: Ski on January 08, 2011, 05:02:20 PM
Vomit comet, special effects...

...Proof?

For proof that Vomit Comets and Special Effects can simulate weightlessness rent the movies Apollo 13 and Space Cowboys.

In Apollo 13 with Tom Hanks the weightless scenes were all filmed in Vomit Comets with NASA's assistance.

In Space Cowboys with Clint Eastwood the weightless scenes were all done with the help of NASA's computer graphics people.

Like the military, NASA is pretty big on providing technical assistance to Hollywood with its films whenever the military/NASA is depicted as a main character. It's a way of public promotion if the public sees these organizations in the limelight. NASA doesn't help all movie studios though. NASA and the military reportedly refused to participate in the filming of the movie Independence Day due to the Area 51 scenes.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 06:07:21 PM by Tom Bishop »
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doyh

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2011, 06:12:18 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 08, 2011, 05:55:59 PM
Quote from: Danukenator123 on January 08, 2011, 05:47:38 PM
Quote from: Ski on January 08, 2011, 05:02:20 PM
Vomit comet, special effects...

...Proof?

For proof that Vomit Comets and Special Effects can simulate weightlessness rent the movies Apollo 13 and Space Cowboys.

In Apollo 13 with Tom Hanks the weightless scenes were all filmed in Vomit Comets with NASA's assistance.

In Space Cowboys with Clint Eastwood the weightless scenes were all done with the help of NASA's computer graphics people.

Like the military, NASA is pretty big on providing technical assistance to Hollywood with its films whenever the military/NASA is depicted as a main character. It's a way of public promotion if the public sees these organizations in the limelight. NASA doesn't help all movie studios though. NASA and the military reportedly refused to participate in the filming of the movie Independence Day due to the Area 51 scenes.

But you can tell when something is faked. There's just something a little bit... off... about it. When something was made with a green screen, you can tell. Even with movies that spend hundreds of millions of dollars on special effects like Avatar, you can tell. And they were showing video and images of people in space a long time before Avatar came out
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General Disarray

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2011, 06:18:52 PM »
Plus, the vomit comet can only simulate weightlessness for less than a minute at a time. Several times, I have seen live shots of astronauts weightless for continuous periods of several minutes at a time.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2011, 06:27:15 PM »
Quote from: doyh on January 08, 2011, 06:12:18 PM
But you can tell when something is faked.

Then you should be able to tell me which one of these three images is a painting, and which two are not.





« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 11:14:16 PM by Tom Bishop »
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markjo

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2011, 06:57:06 PM »
The first one is the painting.

It's a lot harder to fake moving pictures than static ones.
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2011, 09:29:04 PM »
I think it is the third one, since it appears to be on a canvas.

But I'll go with markjo, mostly because I followed the link location that has "painting" in it's name.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2011, 09:31:21 PM »
It was a trick question. They're all paintings.

Picture 1 - http://fineartamerica.com/profiles/dru-blair.html (first in set)

Picture 2 - http://current.com/1v5vu4c (second in the set)

Picture 3 - http://www.tripwiremagazine.com/2010/11/40-excellent-examples-of-magnificent-photo-realistic-paintings.html (towards the bottom of set)
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doyh

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2011, 09:36:03 PM »
So he was right, then. I, and I assume him as well, saw that you were using this as evidence to support your claims, and thus chose the painting that looks the least like a painting, as it was most likely to be right. But regardless, each of those paintings took a long time to make. There are about 80 of them every second in a good video.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2011, 09:46:55 PM »
Quote from: doyh on January 08, 2011, 09:36:03 PM
So he was right, then. I, and I assume him as well, saw that you were using this as evidence to support your claims, and thus chose the painting that looks the least like a painting, as it was most likely to be right. But regardless, each of those paintings took a long time to make. There are about 80 of them every second in a good video.

Well, it goes to show that with a good enough artist and enough attention to detail anything can be faked without apparently being so. I chose paintings to demonstrate this because hyper-realistic fine art has been around since the times of the Ancient Greeks and doesn't rely on any particular piece of modern technology. The Ancient Greeks could also created hyper-realisitic artwork as good as any photograph.

With computers, CGI, and special effects, the artist can now take hyper-realism to film. Making something look realistic is only a matter of the skill of the artist and the amount of time put into the work. If you look through the galleries I linked above you can see that some paintings are better than others. Some you could tell were obviously painted and others could be mistaken for a photograph. It's not clear that they're all paintings. Like the difference between TV effects and Cinema effects, the realism of the effects is a matter of the production budget and the skill of the artist.

Also, it helps that NASA leads us in to believe that their films are truly being taken, just as I led Markjo and EnglshGentleman on to believe that some of the images I presented were photographs. It's much more convincing that way.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 09:50:43 PM by Tom Bishop »
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doyh

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2011, 09:56:33 PM »
Again, a five minute presentation would require 400 perfect fakes. That would take years, if not decades.
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earthisroundDUMMY

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2011, 10:07:22 PM »
Quote from: doyh on January 08, 2011, 09:56:33 PM
Again, a five minute presentation would require 400 perfect fakes. That would take years, if not decades.

yes. and if they were fakes, it could be proven. I don't seen any proven NASA fakery anywhere. Common sense. FETs have none.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2011, 10:09:00 PM »
Quote from: doyh on January 08, 2011, 09:56:33 PM
Again, a five minute presentation would require 400 perfect fakes. That would take years, if not decades.

I'm not suggesting that NASA is hand-painting each still of its videos. I am suggesting that the realism of a work, whether it be paintings or motion picture, depends on the skill of the artist and the amount of time put into it.

I am also suggesting that your quote "But you can tell when something is faked" is false. Markjo and EnglshGentleman didn't seem to tell that they were looking at three paintings.

Quote from: earthisroundDUMMY on January 08, 2011, 10:07:22 PM
yes. and if they were fakes, it could be proven. I don't seen any proven NASA fakery anywhere. Common sense. FETs have none.

Not everything which is fake can be proven to be fake, looks fake, or even has anything about it suggesting that it might be fake.

For example; what flaws can you find in Dru Blair's Tica Painting?



Do you see any flaws which readily tell us that it's not really a photograph? I don't.

You can see how the artist made it here: http://www.drublair.com/comersus/store/tica.asp

    "Detail of final painting showing skin texture. Subtle nuances created by an xacto knife, an eraser, and some colored pencil can build convincing skin texture. The etcetera technique also helps the believability of the skin and hair texture. Fine hair is created using my shield-reveal technique, and my split frisket technique."
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 10:35:28 PM by Tom Bishop »
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2011, 10:10:21 PM »
Quote from: doyh on January 08, 2011, 09:56:33 PM
Again, a five minute presentation would require 400 perfect fakes. That would take years, if not decades.

No it doesn't. Have you ever seen like, ANY movie in which people are in outer space, and experience weightlessness. Looks pretty realistic to me.

As Tom Bishop has said, they aren't painting everything. It is quite easy to make realistic looking videos with technology.
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earthisroundDUMMY

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2011, 10:44:28 PM »
we're talking about doctored images and footage, not artwork. Altering images and footage leaves a data footprint that an expert will notice when looking at the data...
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General Disarray

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2011, 10:45:28 PM »
Quote from: General Disarray on January 08, 2011, 06:18:52 PM
Several times, I have seen live shots of astronauts weightless for continuous periods of several minutes at a time.
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2011, 11:40:01 PM »
Quote from: General Disarray on January 08, 2011, 10:45:28 PM
Quote from: General Disarray on January 08, 2011, 06:18:52 PM
Several times, I have seen live shots of astronauts weightless for continuous periods of several minutes at a time.

How do you know they are live or not? All you are doing is blindly believing the assertion that it is.
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berny_74

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2011, 06:32:09 AM »
Quote from: EnglshGentleman on January 08, 2011, 11:40:01 PM
Quote from: General Disarray on January 08, 2011, 10:45:28 PM
Quote from: General Disarray on January 08, 2011, 06:18:52 PM
Several times, I have seen live shots of astronauts weightless for continuous periods of several minutes at a time.

How do you know they are live or not? All you are doing is blindly believing the assertion that it is.

Because its on live TV, answering phoned in questions and from guests at the show.  Really - the only option you  have here is "conspiracy" which is as dead as the fact that you like to push around birds as a way of altering flight times and then you claim you don't.

Berny
Quote from: EnglshGentleman on June 14, 2010, 10:44:23 PM
Here is a photo of a company that is attempting to lure birds to their plane so they can easily catch and tether them to it thus reducing the costs of having to catch and train them.
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2011, 07:48:34 AM »
Quote from: berny_74 on January 09, 2011, 06:32:09 AM
Quote from: EnglshGentleman on January 08, 2011, 11:40:01 PM
Quote from: General Disarray on January 08, 2011, 10:45:28 PM
Quote from: General Disarray on January 08, 2011, 06:18:52 PM
Several times, I have seen live shots of astronauts weightless for continuous periods of several minutes at a time.

How do you know they are live or not? All you are doing is blindly believing the assertion that it is.

Because its on live TV, answering phoned in questions and from guests at the show.  Really - the only option you  have here is "conspiracy" which is as dead as the fact that you like to push around birds as a way of altering flight times and then you claim you don't.

Berny
Quote from: EnglshGentleman on June 14, 2010, 10:44:23 PM
Here is a photo of a company that is attempting to lure birds to their plane so they can easily catch and tether them to it thus reducing the costs of having to catch and train them.


So? At magic shows, the magicians claim to know super personal details about their audience. Can they really read minds? Can they know the past!?

I said that birds can be trained to pull planes. Never to push and pull.
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markjo

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2011, 08:03:59 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 08, 2011, 09:46:55 PM
With computers, CGI, and special effects, the artist can now take hyper-realism to film.

That's the problem with hyper-realism; it looks too good.  Scenes are too crisp and clean to be believable.
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Beorn

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Re: Weightless Astronauts
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2011, 08:24:18 PM »
Quote from: EnglshGentleman on January 09, 2011, 07:48:34 AM
Quote from: berny_74 on January 09, 2011, 06:32:09 AM
Quote from: EnglshGentleman on January 08, 2011, 11:40:01 PM
Quote from: General Disarray on January 08, 2011, 10:45:28 PM
Quote from: General Disarray on January 08, 2011, 06:18:52 PM
Several times, I have seen live shots of astronauts weightless for continuous periods of several minutes at a time.

How do you know they are live or not? All you are doing is blindly believing the assertion that it is.

Because its on live TV, answering phoned in questions and from guests at the show.  Really - the only option you  have here is "conspiracy" which is as dead as the fact that you like to push around birds as a way of altering flight times and then you claim you don't.

Berny
Quote from: EnglshGentleman on June 14, 2010, 10:44:23 PM
Here is a photo of a company that is attempting to lure birds to their plane so they can easily catch and tether them to it thus reducing the costs of having to catch and train them.


So? At magic shows, the magicians claim to know super personal details about their audience. Can they really read minds? Can they know the past!?

I said that birds can be trained to pull planes. Never to push and pull.

First of all he didn't say they pushed and pulled, second, like that even matters.. birds pulling planes? Seriously? Pick up your game
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