Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #330 on: February 10, 2011, 01:06:14 PM »
I'm certainly not a mathematician, but it seems arbitrary to simply invoke non-Euclidean geometry in order to explain an anomaly that exists only for essentially the outer "half" of your model. What is the nature of the world's geometry, exactly?
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forreal

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #331 on: February 10, 2011, 02:02:11 PM »
I'm certainly not a mathematician, but it seems arbitrary to simply invoke non-Euclidean geometry in order to explain an anomaly that exists only for essentially the outer "half" of your model. What is the nature of the world's geometry, exactly?

This is exactly what we are trying to figure out here.

Thank you pizza for catching my earlier typing errors, but regardless of what was said earlier, the point of this whole discussion is to attempt to have you explain your theory so that we might better understand your viewpoint.

Honestly you act like a small child picking apart the most unrelated details of a response and completely avoid describing your viewpoint.  I'm starting to think you are just a fugly old troll.

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #332 on: February 10, 2011, 05:56:36 PM »
Well, hopefully PizzaPlanet will offer clarification at some point. Which reminds me, it certainly took me a while before I caught on to the Toy Story reference.
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vhu9644

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #333 on: February 11, 2011, 12:58:19 AM »
i got too lazy to read the earlier posts, 17 pages is a lot

but, pizza, i want you to draw 3 parrellel lines on a orange peel the goes all the way around and meets itself again (aka, draw a circle, that are parellel.) one in the middle, and one equidistant from the top and the center, one equidistant from the bottom to the center
now i want you to mesure the length around the circles, do this to your best estimate

you should find the equator is longer than the ones near the pole

then cut it perpendicular to the lines with only one cut, that expands half of the whole circumfrence, in which it starts and ends at the poles

now, i want you to make that rectangular, without additional cuts

if you succeed, you will have 3 lines, that are of equal lenghts, but becuase the outer lines represent a smaller distance, due to a smaller original circumfrence, you must compensate for this

hence, if you were to divide the rectangle into fourths, a fourth of the equator, would not be the same length across as a fourth of the outer lines, hence your 1000 km to 200 km

google is makeing the round earth rectangular, but now, it must compensate for the increased length at the poles

hope you can understand this

do try this experiment!
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Nolhekh

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #334 on: February 11, 2011, 12:39:36 PM »
PizzaPlanet, How would you define the way light bends using your chosen form of geometry?  How do coordinates work in your chosen form of geometry?

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #335 on: February 11, 2011, 01:44:17 PM »
PizzaPlanet, How would you define the way light bends using your chosen form of geometry?  How do coordinates work in your chosen form of geometry?
See also: OP
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Nolhekh

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #336 on: February 11, 2011, 01:51:11 PM »
I'm still having a hard time with this statement:

Quote
The solution itself bases on the fact that, due to bendy light, rays hit the Earth at different angles, and thus the projections of the same length on the surface will differ.

What do you mean by the "projections of the same length?"

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Nolhekh

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #337 on: February 11, 2011, 01:58:36 PM »
I'm still having a hard time with this statement:

Quote
The solution itself bases on the fact that, due to bendy light, rays hit the Earth at different angles, and thus the projections of the same length on the surface will differ.

What do you mean by the "projections of the same length?"

How can angle of light contact distort length?

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Nolhekh

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #338 on: February 11, 2011, 02:09:30 PM »
Giving you the benefit of the doubt that angle of light contacting the ground somehow changes how far away that part of the ground looks to an observer, your diagram assumes the sun shines from the centre of the earth.  It shines from the equator.  If the light were to bend the same on either side of the sun, then the sun's movement would cause distances to look like they're changing throughout the day.  when the sun rises, your bedroom wall looks further away than it does at noon.  Thus, your whole argument is completely absurd.

You claim the varying distances on the Google maps make round earth inconsistent with itself.  Smaller distances at certain latitudes of round earth = same smaller distances specified at same latitudes in google maps.  Therefore it's consistent.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 02:37:35 PM by Nolhekh »

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #339 on: February 11, 2011, 02:25:06 PM »
What do you mean by the "projections of the same length?"
Exactly what it says.

How can angle of light contact distort length?
See the Bishop equation.

this diagram assumes the sun shines from the centre of the earth.
No.
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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #340 on: February 11, 2011, 08:48:46 PM »
I still do not understand the basic geometry of the model described in FET. How is a circumnavigation near the "north pole" and one near the "ice wall" going to take anywhere near the same amount of time?
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IOA

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #341 on: February 11, 2011, 09:00:47 PM »
Furthermore, what about circumnavigation along the longitudinal lines?

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #342 on: February 11, 2011, 09:39:05 PM »
I still do not understand the basic geometry of the model described in FET. How is a circumnavigation near the "north pole" and one near the "ice wall" going to take anywhere near the same amount of time?
The distances are the same. Assuming a fixed velocity, the circumnavigation is going to take the same amount of time. I'm not sure how to explain it further.

Furthermore, what about circumnavigation along the longitudinal lines?
Yes, what about it?
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Nolhekh

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #343 on: February 12, 2011, 06:50:01 AM »
Furthermore, what about circumnavigation along the longitudinal lines?
Yes, what about it?
How can the speed at which a boat or plane moves be affected by the behaviour of light?

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #344 on: February 12, 2011, 08:13:37 AM »
How can the speed at which a boat or plane moves be affected by the behaviour of light?
It can't.
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Nolhekh

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #345 on: February 12, 2011, 09:28:21 AM »
How can the speed at which a boat or plane moves be affected by the behaviour of light?
It can't.

Would it move constistently according to your non-euclidean model?

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #346 on: February 12, 2011, 09:54:34 AM »
Would it move constistently according to your non-euclidean model?
Consistently with what?
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Nolhekh

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #347 on: February 12, 2011, 09:59:38 AM »
Would it move constistently according to your non-euclidean model?
Consistently with what?

If a plane were to travel a distance of 300 km in an hour, would these be euclidean kilometers, or non-euclidean kilometers?

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #348 on: February 12, 2011, 10:28:01 AM »
Why, WHY, WHY can't you read the god damned OP before responding to it?!

The definition of our units of length is at fault
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Nolhekh

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #349 on: February 12, 2011, 10:59:06 AM »
Why, WHY, WHY can't you read the god damned OP before responding to it?!

The definition of our units of length is at fault

I am reading the OP.  I'm just trying to make sense of it.

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IOA

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #350 on: February 12, 2011, 10:59:13 AM »
Furthermore, what about circumnavigation along the longitudinal lines?
Yes, what about it?
You can stop trolling anytime you like.

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Nolhekh

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #351 on: February 12, 2011, 11:04:00 AM »
Ok, so you want length to be redefined due to bendy light, but speeds are not affected by the behaviour of light, so you want us to redefine part of a value that is not affected by the behaviour light due to a behaviour of light.  Contradiction.  Your model fails.

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #352 on: February 12, 2011, 12:03:29 PM »
I am not attacking the model here, but I honestly (at the risk of sounding like a broken record) don't get it either. I am happy to operate under the assumption that the earth is flat while learning about how things work, but when the theory presents seemingly major paradoxes and logical inconsistencies then it's very difficult for me to maintain this perspective.

Is there ANY way to succinctly describe the FET model in order to account for two circles having the same circumference even though they, for all I can reasonably determine, have vastly different circumferences? (Here I refer to the aforementioned paths encircling the world near the "north pole" and near the "ice wall" such that in RET they would naturally appear to be equivalent)

I'm stuck on this particular question because it seems like a pretty fundamental point to establish (i.e. the actual nature of the world's geometry on a forum dedicated to proposing a theory on the world's geometry).
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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #353 on: February 12, 2011, 12:33:59 PM »
Would it move constistently according to your non-euclidean model?
Consistently with what?

If a plane were to travel a distance of 300 km in an hour, would these be euclidean kilometers, or non-euclidean kilometers?

why oh why are you being trolled.
kilometers can't be non euclidean.
It should be obvious that light has nothing to do with the physical shape of the world

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #354 on: February 12, 2011, 12:57:18 PM »
Ok, so you want length to be redefined due to bendy light, but speeds are not affected by the behaviour of light
Yes.

so you want us to redefine part of a value that is not affected by the behaviour light due to a behaviour of light.
No.

Contradiction.
Only in your words.

It should be obvious that light has nothing to do with the physical shape of the world
This is exactly what I'm saying. I've stated it many, many times now. Mechanics != optics. I'm not sure what people don't get.
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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #355 on: February 12, 2011, 12:59:38 PM »
Ok, so you want length to be redefined due to bendy light, but speeds are not affected by the behaviour of light
Yes.

so you want us to redefine part of a value that is not affected by the behaviour light due to a behaviour of light.
No.

Contradiction.
Only in your words.

It should be obvious that light has nothing to do with the physical shape of the world
This is exactly what I'm saying. I've stated it many, many times now. Mechanics != optics. I'm not sure what people don't get.


you still haven't answered to my request.

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Nolhekh

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #356 on: February 12, 2011, 01:20:52 PM »
Ok, so you want length to be redefined due to bendy light, but speeds are not affected by the behaviour of light
Yes.

so you want us to redefine part of a value that is not affected by the behaviour light due to a behaviour of light.
No.
Speed = distance / time
Speed(not affected by bendy light) =/= distance(determined by bendy light)/time

How on earth would you measure speed then?

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #357 on: February 12, 2011, 01:55:08 PM »
Speed(not affected by bendy light) =/= distance(determined by bendy light)/time
Distance isn't determined by light. What on Earth are you talking about?

you still haven't answered to my request.
You forgot to make a request. Also, your attitude is not welcome in this thread. Please take your angry ranting to RM.
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Nolhekh

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #358 on: February 12, 2011, 02:42:25 PM »
Speed(not affected by bendy light) =/= distance(determined by bendy light)/time
Distance isn't determined by light. What on Earth are you talking about?
Ok, so you want length to be redefined due to bendy light...
Yes.

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Re: Distances on RE and FE consistent thanks to bendy light.
« Reply #359 on: February 12, 2011, 03:14:05 PM »
Can we distill the confusion into the following?

RET: Speed = distance/time

FET: ?
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