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Sinking Ship in ENaG

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Nolhekh

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #90 on: February 10, 2011, 11:58:05 AM »
This is not a side profile view.


If someone is viewing an array of identical objects from the side, the objects don't change distance, and thus don't change size.  If there is a change of size in a diagram, it is a perspective view.  The three ships changing size in my diagram is a perspective view.  The ships portrayed side by side with equal size is a side view. 

This picture also cannot be a side view, as it portrays the sea at an angle.  A side view would have the ground/water at the same level throughout the image.  Furthermore your sea changes angle partway through the diagram.  How can this possibly make sense unless the sea really was changing angle.  If this is the case, it does not depict a flat earth.
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berny_74

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #91 on: February 10, 2011, 12:41:14 PM »
Quote from: hoppy on February 10, 2011, 08:34:30 AM
Berny, your right anything above 3' would be visible. It didn't prove a thing..
P.S.  you're lucky you made back to land in that boat. It does sound fun.

I had my occasional "oh crap" moment.


But eventually it did sink.

Berny
Wasn't anywhere near when it sank



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Quote from: markjo on August 18, 2011, 10:31:34 AM
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Hessy

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #92 on: February 11, 2011, 04:06:07 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 10, 2011, 10:10:47 AM
at an angle imperceivable by the human eye.

Yet the phenomenon you describe isn't observed using telescopes or otherwise methods of enhancing one's sight.  If what you said was true, and what ENaG said was true, using a telescope woud restore the ship; yet this isn't the case.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #93 on: February 11, 2011, 02:10:33 PM »
Quote from: Hessy on February 11, 2011, 04:06:07 AM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 10, 2011, 10:10:47 AM
at an angle imperceivable by the human eye.

Yet the phenomenon you describe isn't observed using telescopes or otherwise methods of enhancing one's sight.  If what you said was true, and what ENaG said was true, using a telescope woud restore the ship; yet this isn't the case.

Actually it is the case. Telescopes do restore ships.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Ships+appear+to+sink+as+they+recede+past+the+horizon
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Nolhekh

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #94 on: February 11, 2011, 02:16:40 PM »
I have already proved Rowbotham's finite vanishing point mathematically impossible.  If something is observed to be "sinking" its either due to bending light, or it is really sinking.  There may be cases where you think something looks like its sinking, but it isn't, then a telescope will restore some visibility, but if it definitively looks like a sinking effect then it's really sinking... hopefully not underwater.
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General Disarray

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #95 on: February 11, 2011, 03:42:59 PM »
I have personally verified with my own telescope that things which sink below the horizon cannot be restored with magnification. Tom is lying.
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markjo

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #96 on: February 11, 2011, 05:08:04 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 11, 2011, 02:10:33 PM
Actually it is the case. Telescopes do restore ships.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Ships+appear+to+sink+as+they+recede+past+the+horizon

You keep saying that, but have yet to show any photographic evidence or mention how much magnification is required to "restore" the sunken parts of the ship.
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hoppy

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #97 on: February 11, 2011, 06:43:55 PM »
Quote from: General Disarray on February 11, 2011, 03:42:59 PM
I have personally verified with my own telescope that things which sink below the horizon cannot be restored with magnification. Tom is lying.
  Mr Anderson.
What kind & power telescope were you using. How far was the distance viewed?
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General Disarray

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #98 on: February 11, 2011, 07:18:23 PM »
I will check it out when I get home, but if Tom is correct, any magnification would restore some of an object below the horizon, and I have verified that this is not the case.
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Hessy

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #99 on: February 12, 2011, 01:31:07 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 11, 2011, 02:10:33 PM
Quote from: Hessy on February 11, 2011, 04:06:07 AM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 10, 2011, 10:10:47 AM
at an angle imperceivable by the human eye.

Yet the phenomenon you describe isn't observed using telescopes or otherwise methods of enhancing one's sight.  If what you said was true, and what ENaG said was true, using a telescope woud restore the ship; yet this isn't the case.

Actually it is the case. Telescopes do restore ships.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Ships+appear+to+sink+as+they+recede+past+the+horizon


He didn't cite any 3rd party references, nor did he provide pictures.

If you could find 1 other person that claims that ships are restored with telescopes other than Rowbotham (who have personally verified the phenomenon) I'd take you seriously.
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hoppy

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #100 on: February 12, 2011, 01:44:06 PM »
Quote from: Hessy on February 12, 2011, 01:31:07 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 11, 2011, 02:10:33 PM
Quote from: Hessy on February 11, 2011, 04:06:07 AM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 10, 2011, 10:10:47 AM
at an angle imperceivable by the human eye.

Yet the phenomenon you describe isn't observed using telescopes or otherwise methods of enhancing one's sight.  If what you said was true, and what ENaG said was true, using a telescope woud restore the ship; yet this isn't the case.

Actually it is the case. Telescopes do restore ships.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Ships+appear+to+sink+as+they+recede+past+the+horizon


He didn't cite any 3rd party references, nor did he provide pictures.

If you could find 1 other person that claims that ships are restored with telescopes other than Rowbotham (who have personally verified the phenomenon) I'd take you seriously.

Hey Hessy, What's wrong with you eyes in your picture, do you think you can get some glasses and get that corrected. If you're running out of money, I'll help you pay for them.
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Hessy

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #101 on: February 12, 2011, 01:47:30 PM »
Quote from: hoppy on February 12, 2011, 01:44:06 PM
Hey Hessy, What's wrong with you eyes in your picture, do you think you can get some glasses and get that corrected. If you're running out of money, I'll help you pay for them.

I'm awaiting an appointment with an eye doctor :(

It took weeks to find a opthamologist that specialized in cartoon Earth's with lazy eyes.
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berny_74

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #102 on: February 12, 2011, 01:52:22 PM »
Quote from: Hessy on February 12, 2011, 01:47:30 PM
Quote from: hoppy on February 12, 2011, 01:44:06 PM
Hey Hessy, What's wrong with you eyes in your picture, do you think you can get some glasses and get that corrected. If you're running out of money, I'll help you pay for them.

I'm awaiting an appointment with an eye doctor :(

It took weeks to find a opthamologist that specialized in cartoon Earth's with lazy eyes.


Deciphering Rowbotham can do that to you.

Berny
You know moonlight will cure you....
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Quote from: markjo on August 18, 2011, 10:31:34 AM
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
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Hessy

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #103 on: February 12, 2011, 02:38:14 PM »
So back on topic.

Quote from: Hessy on February 12, 2011, 01:31:07 PM
He didn't cite any 3rd party references, nor did he provide pictures.

If you could find 1 other person that claims that ships are restored with telescopes other than Rowbotham (who have personally verified the phenomenon) I'd take you seriously.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #104 on: February 12, 2011, 06:28:30 PM »
Quote from: Hessy on February 12, 2011, 02:38:14 PM
So back on topic.

Quote from: Hessy on February 12, 2011, 01:31:07 PM
He didn't cite any 3rd party references, nor did he provide pictures.

If you could find 1 other person that claims that ships are restored with telescopes other than Rowbotham (who have personally verified the phenomenon) I'd take you seriously.

Well, first of all, the person in that link who claimed to restore half-sunken ships is a man named Thomas Winship of South Africa, not Samuel Birley Rowbotham: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Ships+appear+to+sink+as+they+recede+past+the+horizon

Secondly, Rowbotham also claims to observe the effect. From page 216 of Earth Not a Globe we read:

    "On any frozen lake or canal, notably on the "Bedford Canal," in the county of Cambridge, in winter and on a clear day, skaters may be observed several miles away, seeming to glide along upon limbs without feet--skates and boots quite invisible to the unaided eye, but distinctly visible through a good telescope. But even on the sea, when the water is very calm, if a vessel is observed until it is just  "hull down," a powerful telescope turned upon it will restore the hull to sight. From which it must be concluded that the lower part of a receding ship disappears through the influence of perspective, and not from sinking behind the summit of a convex surface. If not so it follows that the telescope  either carries the line of sight through the mass of water, or over its surface and down the other side. This would indeed be "looking round a corner," a power which, nor that of penetrating a dense and extensive medium like water, has never yet been claimed for optical instruments of any kind.

    Upon the sea the law of perspective is modified because the leading condition, that of stability in the surface or datum line, is changed. When the surface is calm the/ hull of a vessel can be seen for a much greater distance than when it is rough and stormy. This can easily be verified by observations upon fixed objects at known distances, such as light-ships, light-houses, sea walls, head-lands, or the light-coloured masonry of batteries, such as are built on the coast in many parts of the world.

    In May, 1864, the author, with several gentlemen who bad attended his lectures at Gosport, made a number of observations on the "Nab" light-ship, from the landing stairs of the Victoria Pier, at Portsmouth. From an elevation of thirty-two inches above the water, when it was very calm, the greater part of the hull of the light vessel was, through a good telescope, plainly visible. But on other occasions, when the water was much disturbed, no portion of the hull could be seen from the same elevation, and with the same or even a more powerful telescope. At other times, when the water was more or less calm, only a small portion of the hull, and sometimes the upper part of the bulwarks only, could be seen. These observations not only prove that the distance at which objects at sea can be seen by a powerful telescope depends greatly on the state of the water, but they furnish a strong argument against rotundity. The "Nab" light-ship is eight statute miles from the Victoria pier, and allowing thirty-two inches for the altitude of the observers, and ten feet for the height of the bulwarks above the water line, we find that even if the water were perfectly smooth and stationary, the top of the hull should at all times be fourteen feet below the horizon. Many observations similar to the above have been made on the north-west light-ship, in Liverpool Bay and on light-vessels in various parts of the sea round; Great Britain and Ireland."

Thirdly, a non-flatearther named Cyrus Teed has restored hulls with telescopes on Lake Michigan here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/cc/cc21.htm

There we have it. Three people who describe a restoration of objects at distance.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 06:41:43 PM by Tom Bishop »
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markjo

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #105 on: February 12, 2011, 06:34:49 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 12, 2011, 06:28:30 PM
Well first of all, the person in that link who claimed to restore half-sunken ships is a man named Thomas Winship of South Africa, not Samuel Birley Rowbotham: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Ships+appear+to+sink+as+they+recede+past+the+horizon

Secondly, Rowbotham also claims to observe the effect.

Thirdly, a non-flatearther named Cyrus Teed claims to have restored hulls with telescopes here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/cc/cc21.htm

There we have it. Three people who describe a restoration of objects at distance.

And zero people who have provided photographic evidence to support that claim.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #106 on: February 12, 2011, 06:38:27 PM »
Quote from: markjo on February 12, 2011, 06:34:49 PM
And zero people who have provided photographic evidence to support that claim.

Detailed first hand accounts from multiple independent sources are as powerful as any picture.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 06:41:06 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Ski

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #107 on: February 12, 2011, 07:01:21 PM »
We had a poster here (round earth advocate, no less) who performed such an experiment and the results showed a small amount of restoration as well.
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Nolhekh

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #108 on: February 12, 2011, 07:08:24 PM »
Without photographic evidence, it's difficult to tell if the observer really knows what he's seeing.
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Ski

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #109 on: February 12, 2011, 07:11:58 PM »
There were photos. The photos showed a restoration. The results were promptly accosted by RE members and the story died.
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Nolhekh

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #110 on: February 12, 2011, 07:15:19 PM »
I refer to the first hand accounts that Tom Bishop mentions. 

Perhaps you could link to the post showing restoration?  I'm interested in taking a look.
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markjo

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #111 on: February 12, 2011, 07:15:25 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 12, 2011, 06:38:27 PM
Quote from: markjo on February 12, 2011, 06:34:49 PM
And zero people who have provided photographic evidence to support that claim.

Detailed first hand accounts from multiple independent sources are as powerful as any picture.

Except when these "multiple independent sources" claim to have seen direct evidence that the earth is round.
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Around And About

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #112 on: February 12, 2011, 08:42:10 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 12, 2011, 06:38:27 PM
Quote from: markjo on February 12, 2011, 06:34:49 PM
And zero people who have provided photographic evidence to support that claim.

Detailed first hand accounts from multiple independent sources are as powerful as any picture.

Hmm yes...I am going to remember that you said this, Tom.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #113 on: February 12, 2011, 09:09:15 PM »
Quote from: markjo on February 12, 2011, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 12, 2011, 06:38:27 PM
Quote from: markjo on February 12, 2011, 06:34:49 PM
And zero people who have provided photographic evidence to support that claim.

Detailed first hand accounts from multiple independent sources are as powerful as any picture.

Except when these "multiple independent sources" claim to have seen direct evidence that the earth is round.

Those sources you're talking about aren't independent.
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markjo

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #114 on: February 12, 2011, 09:35:44 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 12, 2011, 09:09:15 PM
Quote from: markjo on February 12, 2011, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 12, 2011, 06:38:27 PM
Quote from: markjo on February 12, 2011, 06:34:49 PM
And zero people who have provided photographic evidence to support that claim.

Detailed first hand accounts from multiple independent sources are as powerful as any picture.

Except when these "multiple independent sources" claim to have seen direct evidence that the earth is round.

Those sources you're talking about aren't independent.

How do you know which sources I'm talking about? 
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #115 on: February 12, 2011, 09:53:53 PM »
Quote from: markjo on February 12, 2011, 09:35:44 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 12, 2011, 09:09:15 PM
Quote from: markjo on February 12, 2011, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 12, 2011, 06:38:27 PM
Quote from: markjo on February 12, 2011, 06:34:49 PM
And zero people who have provided photographic evidence to support that claim.

Detailed first hand accounts from multiple independent sources are as powerful as any picture.

Except when these "multiple independent sources" claim to have seen direct evidence that the earth is round.

Those sources you're talking about aren't independent.

How do you know which sources I'm talking about? 

Because the few sources which claim to have seen direct evidence that the earth is a globe are not independent of each other.
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markjo

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #116 on: February 12, 2011, 10:12:20 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 12, 2011, 09:53:53 PM
Because the few sources which claim to have seen direct evidence that the earth is a globe are not independent of each other.

Do you have any evidence to support this outlandish claim?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #117 on: February 12, 2011, 10:35:33 PM »
Quote from: markjo on February 12, 2011, 10:12:20 PM
Do you have any evidence to support this outlandish claim?

Yes. Read any book on the history of space travel.

The RSA, the Russian Space Agency, works with NASA on a daily basis, as allies and friends. Even its precursor, the Soviet Space Agency, worked with NASA on billion dollar joint space projects.

ESA, JAXA, ISRO, and the BSA started off as subdivisions of NASA. The respective countries of those organizations paid NASA to send rockets into space for them, which most of them they still do. They just don't have the resources or ability to send payloads into space without relying on either NASA or the RSA for assistance.

Today they all work on joint space projects together and are financially tied, exchanging billions of dollars annually. Hardly independent.

The CSA, the Chinese Space Agency, is the only space agency which claims to be independent of NASA. But it seems that the Chinese Space Agency needs to fake space travel, too. Its recent space walk videos were clearly " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">faked in an underwater studio.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 10:37:55 PM by Tom Bishop »
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General Disarray

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #118 on: February 12, 2011, 10:41:34 PM »
Quote from: General Disarray on February 11, 2011, 03:42:59 PM
I have personally verified with my own telescope that things which sink below the horizon cannot be restored with magnification. Tom is lying.
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markjo

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Re: Sinking Ship in ENaG
« Reply #119 on: February 12, 2011, 11:07:40 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 12, 2011, 10:35:33 PM
Quote from: markjo on February 12, 2011, 10:12:20 PM
Do you have any evidence to support this outlandish claim?

Yes. Read any book on the history of space travel.

When did I say anything about space travel?  There are other ways of observing the roundness of the earth.  For example, passengers and crew aboard the Concorde were able to see the curvature of the earth.  Several amateur projects have sent high altitude balloons aloft and observed the curvature of the earth.  Even watching the sun rise and set suggests that the earth is round (or, at the very least, not an infinite plane).

There are countless photographs showing the curvature of the earth (every one of which you dismiss as fakery) yet there is not a single photograph showing the restored hull of a "sunken" ship using magnification.  Why is that, Tom?
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