Plagerism.

I was talking with my Boss on what is considered Plagiarism and apparently turning in the same paper to multiple classes is considered Plagiarism and my college. I was wondering what other peoples thoughts were.

I was talking with my Boss on what is considered Plagiarism and apparently turning in the same paper to multiple classes is considered Plagiarism and my college. I was wondering what other peoples thoughts were.

If you wrote the paper it's yours to give out to whoever you want.

But he's off on plagiarism anyway. It's when you take the written words or ideas of one person and claim ( directly or indirectly) that they are yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism#Self-plagiarism

But do you think that is is unethical to do this for say a paper to two different classes? I understand why it would be unethical if you had sold the rights to the original but...

You should release your paper as public domain, then see what they do

But do you think that is is unethical to do this for say a paper to two different classes? I understand why it would be unethical if you had sold the rights to the original but...

If you wrote the paper it's yours to give out to whoever you want.

But he's off on plagiarism anyway. It's when you take the written words or ideas of one person and claim ( directly or indirectly) that they are yours.

Quote from: Saddam Hussein on December 19, 2010, 08:35:29 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism#Self-plagiarism

But do you think that is is unethical to do this for say a paper to two different classes? I understand why it would be unethical if you had sold the rights to the original but...

Many people would say, yes, that receiving credit for submitting a paper to two different classes is quite unethical.

But what about using knowledge learned from one class to pass another class? Why is that accepted but not reusing written works of your own knowledge?

I don't consider that unethical, but it does bring up the problem of what knowledge you retain from the time you wrote the paper first. What if, were you to write a separate paper to the second class, you would fail, but you succeed when you submit the first paper? That would mean that you've passed a class which you aren't qualified to pass. Sounds like cheating to me.

Self-plagiarism is a nonsensical dilemma. It is not unethical, it is efficient.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on December 19, 2010, 08:59:02 PM

But do you think that is is unethical to do this for say a paper to two different classes? I understand why it would be unethical if you had sold the rights to the original but...

If you wrote the paper it's yours to give out to whoever you want.

But he's off on plagiarism anyway. It's when you take the written words or ideas of one person and claim ( directly or indirectly) that they are yours.

i c wat u did thar.

You're receiving two grades for the same paper. In the real world, say a job, I'd call it acceptable since you're not going to be directly benefited by it. But when you turn in a paper multiple times for different grades, then you're not doing the work, which is what the grade is reflecting.

Grades are meant to reflect comprehension though. If you get two good grades by killing a bird with one rock, I'd say you understand the material and thus deserve the grades. If the topics don't overlap enough, or if the grades aren't ideal, it means additional effort and/or research should have been applied.

Grades are a means to evaluating things like knowledge and proficiency.
Like you implied, school isn't "real world", and grades aren't either. Interpreting them as their own end, changes the moral equation.

Grades are a means to evaluating things like knowledge and proficiency.
Like you implied, school isn't real, and really grades aren't either. Interpreting them as their own end, changes the moral equation.

there are not enough people that see it like that sadly.

Our English teacher subitted the same essay for two exams (Language and Literature) and if it is up to a good standard we can do the same with the two science exams. I see nothing unethical (and certainly nothing plagaristic) about it.

Its unethical if you a member of a university that has said rules in place.  You agreed to the rules of conduct when you started attending the university.

Its unethical if you a member of a university that has said rules in place.

So rules arbitrate ethics, and not the other way around?

You agreed to the rules of conduct when you started attending the university.

Do you contend self-plagiarism is ethical in public high schools?

Quote from: John Davis on December 23, 2010, 03:46:37 PM

Its unethical if you a member of a university that has said rules in place.

So rules arbitrate ethics, and not the other way around?

No, he's saying that if you voluntarily agree to a set of rules, it is unethical to break them.

Quote from: John Davis on December 23, 2010, 03:46:37 PM

Its unethical if you a member of a university that has said rules in place.

So rules arbitrate ethics, and not the other way around?

Quote from: John Davis on December 23, 2010, 03:46:37 PM

You agreed to the rules of conduct when you started attending the university.

Do you contend self-plagiarism is ethical in public high schools?

SH is correct.  I was stating that in general if you agree to a set of rules it is unethical to break said rules.

Are you referring to British public schools or state schools? 

Grades are meant to reflect comprehension though. If you get two good grades by killing a bird with one rock, I'd say you understand the material and thus deserve the grades. If the topics don't overlap enough, or if the grades aren't ideal, it means additional effort and/or research should have been applied.

Grades are a means to evaluating things like knowledge and proficiency.
Like you implied, school isn't "real world", and grades aren't either. Interpreting them as their own end, changes the moral equation.

You're discounting the selection element of grades. Not only do they serve as a measure of comprehension, but also as a selection mechanism based upon effort. In the sense of this argument, the grades are not seen as an end in themselves, but as a means toward sorting students. Reusing papers demonstrates a lack of effort.

Quote from: ?ingula?i?y on December 22, 2010, 11:17:11 AM

Grades are meant to reflect comprehension though. If you get two good grades by killing a bird with one rock, I'd say you understand the material and thus deserve the grades. If the topics don't overlap enough, or if the grades aren't ideal, it means additional effort and/or research should have been applied.

Grades are a means to evaluating things like knowledge and proficiency.
Like you implied, school isn't "real world", and grades aren't either. Interpreting them as their own end, changes the moral equation.

You're discounting the selection element of grades. Not only do they serve as a measure of comprehension, but also as a selection mechanism based upon effort. In the sense of this argument, the grades are not seen as an end in themselves, but as a means toward sorting students. Reusing papers demonstrates a lack of effort.

frankly I view doing extra work as a sign of stupidity. we are supposed to be training people to do things efficiently. if you are an engineer and you spend your time reinventing the wheel you won't have a job for long. frankly put you have already put in the effort for the project why do more for an arbitrary reason?

There is nothing wrong with submitting your work twice for credit as long as it conforms to the assignment and subject matter. I've actually been encouraged to do this at my university.

There is nothing wrong with submitting your work twice for credit as long as it conforms to the assignment and subject matter. I've actually been encouraged to do this at my university.

this is called a statement, not an argument. other arguments have been made, to which you can respond to.

Quote from: Keldarion Typrax on December 23, 2010, 10:17:13 PM

There is nothing wrong with submitting your work twice for credit as long as it conforms to the assignment and subject matter. I've actually been encouraged to do this at my university.

this is called a statement, not an argument. other arguments have been made, to which you can respond to.

If you own it you can distribute it however you want.

Quote from: Benocrates on December 24, 2010, 11:51:37 AM

Quote from: Keldarion Typrax on December 23, 2010, 10:17:13 PM

There is nothing wrong with submitting your work twice for credit as long as it conforms to the assignment and subject matter. I've actually been encouraged to do this at my university.

this is called a statement, not an argument. other arguments have been made, to which you can respond to.

If you own it you can distribute it however you want.

It's not a matter of ownership, but a matter of being awarded credit for an independent project that was not completed.

Quote from: Keldarion Typrax on December 24, 2010, 12:50:24 PM

Quote from: Benocrates on December 24, 2010, 11:51:37 AM

Quote from: Keldarion Typrax on December 23, 2010, 10:17:13 PM

There is nothing wrong with submitting your work twice for credit as long as it conforms to the assignment and subject matter. I've actually been encouraged to do this at my university.

this is called a statement, not an argument. other arguments have been made, to which you can respond to.

If you own it you can distribute it however you want.

It's not a matter of ownership, but a matter of being awarded credit for an independent project that was not completed.

Did you just pull that definition out of thin air?

If anything I'm defining the purpose of grading and the nature of this argument. I don't really understand your question.

I'm just trying to figure out where you got your definition of plagiarism from.

I created a definition of self-plagiarism that makes sense in the context of this discussion...where do you get your definitions from?

I created a definition of self-plagiarism

Ok I can create definitions too but that doesn't mean they have any credibility.

that's the purpose of a discussion like this, to define things and debate the validity of the definition based upon the argument itself. What confuses you about this? Where do you think definitions come from?