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Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on March 30, 2011, 01:26:55 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on March 30, 2011, 12:51:21 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on March 30, 2011, 10:13:47 AM

Debt is the leech that is slowly killing the American dream.

I agree that debt is a major problem, but I also think greed might be just as bad.

Greed screwed up your mom and stepfathers retirement? 

They're not in debt, their house is paid for, their vehicles are paid for. 

What about during their "working" years?

If one has a good idea and sound planning but which also needs a fair amount of moolah, contacting a venture capitalist would be my choice over borrowing.

Exactly.  But Im just a right wing nut job.  What the fuck do I know?

Wardogg, you don't have a credit card?

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on March 30, 2011, 03:42:26 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on March 30, 2011, 01:26:55 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on March 30, 2011, 12:51:21 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on March 30, 2011, 10:13:47 AM

Debt is the leech that is slowly killing the American dream.

I agree that debt is a major problem, but I also think greed might be just as bad.

Greed screwed up your mom and stepfathers retirement? 

They're not in debt, their house is paid for, their vehicles are paid for. 

What about during their "working" years?

My mother made sure they were never in more debt than was absolutely necessary.  Just like you are doing. She had a 20yr mortgage, which she paid off about 10yrs ago. In fact, she always paid off her debts years before she had to. She's always taken jobs that had good health insurance plans for the entire family, while my stepfather worked as a logger and a truck driver.  They just didn't either one ever have high paying jobs. You probably think that is because they didn't try, or care, or were somehow irresponsible, but they worked hard, and raised 6 kids without ever taking welfare or needing to.  Now my stepfather is too decrepit to work, but my mom is still hanging in there. Since she works in a cancer treatment clinic, it's not tough physically and she'll probably work as long as she can drive. Their main concern is being able to afford health care after she finally retires. 

How is this not fucking greed? http://www.slate.com/id/2289616/

Wardogg, you don't have a credit card?

I do not. 

My mother made sure they were never in more debt than was absolutely necessary.  Just like you are doing. She had a 20yr mortgage, which she paid off about 10yrs ago. In fact, she always paid off her debts years before she had to. She's always taken jobs that had good health insurance plans for the entire family, while my stepfather worked as a logger and a truck driver.  They just didn't either one ever have high paying jobs. You probably think that is because they didn't try, or care, or were somehow irresponsible, but they worked hard, and raised 6 kids without ever taking welfare or needing to.  Now my stepfather is too decrepit to work, but my mom is still hanging in there. Since she works in a cancer treatment clinic, it's not tough physically and she'll probably work as long as she can drive. Their main concern is being able to afford health care after she finally retires. 

How is this not fucking greed? http://www.slate.com/id/2289616/

I think no such thing of your parents.  It sounds like they had a very fulfilling life providing for a large family.  I think the way we are all taught about money is wrong. I lived the under the same money myths and lies up until 2 years ago.  Im hoping now, that I am changing my family tree financially forever.

I can only say one thing about the drug company article....supply and demand. 

Whats the solution?  Government involvement on drug prices?  My parents are going through something similar so I know what you are talking about.

Exactly.  But Im just a right wing nut job.  What the fuck do I know?

I think you know quite a bit.      And I'm partial to Herky Bird people.

I think no such thing of your parents.  It sounds like they had a very fulfilling life providing for a large family.  I think the way we are all taught about money is wrong. I lived the under the same money myths and lies up until 2 years ago.  Im hoping now, that I am changing my family tree financially forever.

What were the money myths and lies you believed?

Quote from: Beorn on March 30, 2011, 02:12:45 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on March 30, 2011, 02:03:45 PM

Quote from: Beorn on March 30, 2011, 01:59:54 PM

And surprise surprise, 9 out of 10 of those how to get money results is loan. Your point was what again?

Enjoy your debt.

I'm not a business person. And didn't we do the debt thread already, where you happened to be the only one actually having a debt?

I am also saving for retirement....should we have that thread as well?

I also am a single income family of soon to be 6.  Anyone else?  

Quote from: Fortuna on March 30, 2011, 02:15:20 PM

ITT: Wardogg is the only hard worker.

No, but im the only one not whining about my position in life.

Who here is whining about their position in life?

Look, these people are trying to label me a hypocrite because I'm disabled.

Look, these people are trying to label me a hypocrite because I'm disabled.

How are you disabled?

Seriously, I haven't been around long enough/can't be bothered lurking.

Look, these people are trying to label me a hypocrite because I'm disabled.

#

Where the McJesus sandwich did that come from?

Look, these people are trying to label me a hypocrite because I'm disabled.

What, mentally?

Quote from: Christianrocker90 on March 31, 2011, 03:58:46 AM

Look, these people are trying to label me a hypocrite because I'm disabled.

#

Where the McJesus sandwich did that come from?

+1

Lolwut?

Look, these people are trying to label me a hypocrite because I'm disabled.

I was not trying to label you as a hypocrite because you are disabled.  I was trying to make you think about the things you believe.  It's very easy for you to pass judgment on others, but it sucks when others pass judgment on you, doesn't it?   

Quote from: Christianrocker90 on March 31, 2011, 03:58:46 AM

Look, these people are trying to label me a hypocrite because I'm disabled.

I was not trying to label you as a hypocrite because you are disabled.  I was trying to make you think about the things you believe.  It's very easy for you to pass judgment on others, but it sucks when others pass judgment on you, doesn't it?   

I'm supposed to ignore plain facts because I come across as judgmental?

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on March 31, 2011, 10:42:14 AM

Quote from: Christianrocker90 on March 31, 2011, 03:58:46 AM

Look, these people are trying to label me a hypocrite because I'm disabled.

I was not trying to label you as a hypocrite because you are disabled.  I was trying to make you think about the things you believe.  It's very easy for you to pass judgment on others, but it sucks when others pass judgment on you, doesn't it?   

I'm supposed to ignore plain facts because I come across as judgmental?

What plain facts?

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on March 29, 2011, 10:51:44 PM

Yes.  Do you think differently? 

Where is the fairness in that?

Sorry, I'm going to need somebody to explain exactly why they think it's unfair that someone born into money should have to work hard.  Frankly it seems somewhat nonsensical to me.

It's more fair than those people not being able to go to the hospital.

I agree with socialized healthcare.  Honestly I was disappointed that "Obamacare" ended up being the sham it did.

Or billion dollar businesses not paying taxes.

Relevance? 

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on March 31, 2011, 10:42:14 AM

Quote from: Christianrocker90 on March 31, 2011, 03:58:46 AM

Look, these people are trying to label me a hypocrite because I'm disabled.

I was not trying to label you as a hypocrite because you are disabled.  I was trying to make you think about the things you believe.  It's very easy for you to pass judgment on others, but it sucks when others pass judgment on you, doesn't it?   

I'm supposed to ignore plain facts because I come across as judgmental?

Just because it seems plain to you doesn't make it plain, nor does it make it a fact.

Sorry, I'm going to need somebody to explain exactly why they think it's unfair that someone born into money should have to work hard.  Frankly it seems somewhat nonsensical to me.

Why should some people prosper simply out of being lucky?

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on March 31, 2011, 07:39:17 PM

Sorry, I'm going to need somebody to explain exactly why they think it's unfair that someone born into money should have to work hard.  Frankly it seems somewhat nonsensical to me.

Why should some people prosper simply out of being lucky?

Why shouldn't they?  Again, you're positing a conclusion with absolutely nothing to support it.

Why shouldn't they?  Again, you're positing a conclusion with absolutely nothing to support it.

They haven't earned it.

I don't quite understand how you perceive it as fair, but again, the issue is completely subjective.

Anyway, I'm apathetic regarding this point, as it wasn't me who brought it up.

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on March 31, 2011, 07:57:08 PM

Why shouldn't they?  Again, you're positing a conclusion with absolutely nothing to support it.

They haven't earned it.

So?

I don't quite understand how you perceive it as fair, but again, the issue is completely subjective.

Indeed it is.  Every issue involving politics is completely subjective.

It's fair because somewhere along the line they had an ancestor who worked hard enough that his family line wouldn't have to work.  Indeed, that's part of the American Dream.  If I was, say, Bill Gates rich, I wouldn't expect my children to necessarily have to work (though I'd probably encourage it anyway, for the character it builds); and if I had enough money that my descendants could be supported indefinitely, I would expect it to happen.

Is it unfair when somebody doesn't have to work because they won the lottery? Or hit a jackpot at the casino?

There is no hard and fast rule that you need to work to have money, nor should there be.  Luck is a part of life.  

Anyway, I'm apathetic regarding this point, as it wasn't me who brought it up.

Well, you started arguing it.  But that's okay; the point was entirely irrelevant to my initial statement that started the discussion, anyway, so frankly I'm a bit apathetic about it too.

I think in the context of people essentially doing nothing, whether it be on welfare or on riches, is bad.

I think in the context of people essentially doing nothing, whether it be on welfare or on riches, is bad.

The difference is that you and I are not supporting the ones who essentially do nothing because they were born into money.

Alright then, back to welfare.

How do you think it should be handled?

Unless physically or mentally unable, people on welfare should be forced to work for their money.  At the very least there should be a limit to how long such people are allowed to remain on welfare without being expected to work for it.

Yeah, so there never was any real disagreement.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on March 31, 2011, 10:42:14 AM

Quote from: Christianrocker90 on March 31, 2011, 03:58:46 AM

Look, these people are trying to label me a hypocrite because I'm disabled.

I was not trying to label you as a hypocrite because you are disabled.  I was trying to make you think about the things you believe.  It's very easy for you to pass judgment on others, but it sucks when others pass judgment on you, doesn't it?   

I'm supposed to ignore plain facts because I come across as judgmental?

What plain facts? Who are you judging?


Does anybody else feel like we're just reading one half of CR90's internal monologue?

I agree with Singularity; I used to always have these thoughts about my friends: 'Spoilt fuckers getting stuff off their parents that I can't have, it's not right!' But then I realised that if I became rich I wouldn't exactly hold back money from my kids just to try and build their character.

Unless physically or mentally unable, people on welfare should be forced to work for their money.  At the very least there should be a limit to how long such people are allowed to remain on welfare without being expected to work for it.

I was under the impression that unless you had a disability or such that you could only receive welfare for a certain amount of time.