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A major flaw in the zetetic model

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2010, 03:33:29 AM »
Quote from: Ichimaru Gin :] on December 12, 2010, 06:35:59 PM
So you admit that the Earth's observable shape itself doesn't change. Thanks!

When did anybody ever claim that it did [from a fixed viewpoint]? You're weird. ???
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Thermal Detonator

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2010, 03:34:38 AM »
Quote from: Thork on December 12, 2010, 06:17:55 PM
I knew it was you. lol!

I am not this Clock Tower of whom you speak. I looked at his posts - he's far more polite to Johannes than I ever have been. That alone proves he's not me.
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berny_74

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2010, 07:15:48 AM »
Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 12, 2010, 06:15:26 PM

Er, yes it does, because the surface of a plane always remains visible when an object moving across it it visible. Hence, the shape of the surface is implicit in the movement of the object. Lrn2geometry.

Geometry only applies when it proves a Fake Earth Theory.  Otherwise it is rejected entirely.  I haven't been here that long and I've figured that out.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2010, 07:25:07 AM »
The Earth appears to be generally flat. What boats etc. appear to do/be is a different question entirely.
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markjo

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2010, 08:11:08 AM »
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on December 13, 2010, 07:25:07 AM
The Earth appears to be generally flat. What boats etc. appear to do/be is a different question entirely.

Not really.  How boats appear as they near the horizon depends a great deal on the shape of the earth (along with atmospheric conditions and a few other things).
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Beorn

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2010, 10:08:39 AM »
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on December 13, 2010, 07:25:07 AM
The minuscule part of the Earth that I can see appears to be generally flat. What boats etc. appear to do/be is a different question entirely.
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General Disarray

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2010, 10:10:45 AM »
So the question of if reality (the behavior of objects other than the earth) agrees with your preconceived notion that the earth is flat is an entirely separate issue? Wouldn't you try to look for other observations to agree with your model before you trusted one admittedly flawed observation over all others?
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Skeleton

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2010, 10:43:27 AM »
TD is right, the earth doesnt look flat. I keep saying this as well, nobody listens.
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gotham

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2010, 01:41:53 PM »
Quote from: Skeleton on December 13, 2010, 10:43:27 AM
TD is right, the earth doesnt look flat. I keep saying this as well, nobody listens.

Throughout history people have observed it to be flat?  I confirmed that observation myself.  I have stood with a 360 degree view and slowly turned around looking over sea and land.  All flat.
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Thermal Detonator

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2010, 01:56:10 PM »
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 01:41:53 PM
Quote from: Skeleton on December 13, 2010, 10:43:27 AM
TD is right, the earth doesnt look flat. I keep saying this as well, nobody listens.

Throughout history people have observed it to be flat?  I confirmed that observation myself.  I have stood with a 360 degree view and slowly turned around looking over sea and land.  All flat.

You look over the sea and are able to see land beyond it, are you? Because that is the way every other flat plane appears, isn't it? Feel free to give examples of ANY other flat planes which have a fixed limit of visibility. List as many as you like.
When you say "the earth looks flat", what you actually are saying is "the earth looks like what I expect a flat earth would look like" because you haven't stopped to think what a flat earth really would look like.
Let's turn the question around - imagine the earth is a sphere. What would you EXPECT to see?
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gotham

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2010, 02:34:47 PM »
Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 01:41:53 PM
Quote from: Skeleton on December 13, 2010, 10:43:27 AM
TD is right, the earth doesnt look flat. I keep saying this as well, nobody listens.

Throughout history people have observed it to be flat?  I confirmed that observation myself.  I have stood with a 360 degree view and slowly turned around looking over sea and land.  All flat.

You look over the sea and are able to see land beyond it, are you? Because that is the way every other flat plane appears, isn't it? Feel free to give examples of ANY other flat planes which have a fixed limit of visibility. List as many as you like.
When you say "the earth looks flat", what you actually are saying is "the earth looks like what I expect a flat earth would look like" because you haven't stopped to think what a flat earth really would look like.
Let's turn the question around - imagine the earth is a sphere. What would you EXPECT to see?

I would not go into the experiment with expectations as you stated.  That could compromise the integrity of the method employed. Better to just observe and record the results of the observation. 
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Beorn

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2010, 02:38:09 PM »
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 01:41:53 PM
Quote from: Skeleton on December 13, 2010, 10:43:27 AM
TD is right, the earth doesnt look flat. I keep saying this as well, nobody listens.

Throughout history people have observed it to be flat?  I confirmed that observation myself.  I have stood with a 360 degree view and slowly turned around looking over sea and land.  All flat.

You look over the sea and are able to see land beyond it, are you? Because that is the way every other flat plane appears, isn't it? Feel free to give examples of ANY other flat planes which have a fixed limit of visibility. List as many as you like.
When you say "the earth looks flat", what you actually are saying is "the earth looks like what I expect a flat earth would look like" because you haven't stopped to think what a flat earth really would look like.
Let's turn the question around - imagine the earth is a sphere. What would you EXPECT to see?

I would not go into the experiment with expectations as you stated.  That could compromise the integrity of the method employed. Better to just observe and record the results of the observation. 

I just looked out the window and saw that the earth isn't flat. So what now?
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gotham

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2010, 02:39:38 PM »
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 01:41:53 PM
Quote from: Skeleton on December 13, 2010, 10:43:27 AM
TD is right, the earth doesnt look flat. I keep saying this as well, nobody listens.

Throughout history people have observed it to be flat?  I confirmed that observation myself.  I have stood with a 360 degree view and slowly turned around looking over sea and land.  All flat.

You look over the sea and are able to see land beyond it, are you? Because that is the way every other flat plane appears, isn't it? Feel free to give examples of ANY other flat planes which have a fixed limit of visibility. List as many as you like.
When you say "the earth looks flat", what you actually are saying is "the earth looks like what I expect a flat earth would look like" because you haven't stopped to think what a flat earth really would look like.
Let's turn the question around - imagine the earth is a sphere. What would you EXPECT to see?

I would not go into the experiment with expectations as you stated.  That could compromise the integrity of the method employed. Better to just observe and record the results of the observation. 

I just looked out the window and saw that the earth isn't flat. So what now?

How would you describe what you saw?
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Beorn

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2010, 02:40:27 PM »
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 01:41:53 PM
Quote from: Skeleton on December 13, 2010, 10:43:27 AM
TD is right, the earth doesnt look flat. I keep saying this as well, nobody listens.

Throughout history people have observed it to be flat?  I confirmed that observation myself.  I have stood with a 360 degree view and slowly turned around looking over sea and land.  All flat.

You look over the sea and are able to see land beyond it, are you? Because that is the way every other flat plane appears, isn't it? Feel free to give examples of ANY other flat planes which have a fixed limit of visibility. List as many as you like.
When you say "the earth looks flat", what you actually are saying is "the earth looks like what I expect a flat earth would look like" because you haven't stopped to think what a flat earth really would look like.
Let's turn the question around - imagine the earth is a sphere. What would you EXPECT to see?

I would not go into the experiment with expectations as you stated.  That could compromise the integrity of the method employed. Better to just observe and record the results of the observation. 

I just looked out the window and saw that the earth isn't flat. So what now?

How would you describe what you saw?

Like a bowl
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gotham

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2010, 02:43:57 PM »
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 02:40:27 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 01:41:53 PM
Quote from: Skeleton on December 13, 2010, 10:43:27 AM
TD is right, the earth doesnt look flat. I keep saying this as well, nobody listens.

Throughout history people have observed it to be flat?  I confirmed that observation myself.  I have stood with a 360 degree view and slowly turned around looking over sea and land.  All flat.

You look over the sea and are able to see land beyond it, are you? Because that is the way every other flat plane appears, isn't it? Feel free to give examples of ANY other flat planes which have a fixed limit of visibility. List as many as you like.
When you say "the earth looks flat", what you actually are saying is "the earth looks like what I expect a flat earth would look like" because you haven't stopped to think what a flat earth really would look like.
Let's turn the question around - imagine the earth is a sphere. What would you EXPECT to see?

I would not go into the experiment with expectations as you stated.  That could compromise the integrity of the method employed. Better to just observe and record the results of the observation. 

I just looked out the window and saw that the earth isn't flat. So what now?

How would you describe what you saw?

Like a bowl

You had best record your results and start a journal of some sort.  You should continue to observe and record so you have documentation of your claims. 
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Beorn

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2010, 02:44:53 PM »
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:43:57 PM
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 02:40:27 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 01:41:53 PM
Quote from: Skeleton on December 13, 2010, 10:43:27 AM
TD is right, the earth doesnt look flat. I keep saying this as well, nobody listens.

Throughout history people have observed it to be flat?  I confirmed that observation myself.  I have stood with a 360 degree view and slowly turned around looking over sea and land.  All flat.

You look over the sea and are able to see land beyond it, are you? Because that is the way every other flat plane appears, isn't it? Feel free to give examples of ANY other flat planes which have a fixed limit of visibility. List as many as you like.
When you say "the earth looks flat", what you actually are saying is "the earth looks like what I expect a flat earth would look like" because you haven't stopped to think what a flat earth really would look like.
Let's turn the question around - imagine the earth is a sphere. What would you EXPECT to see?

I would not go into the experiment with expectations as you stated.  That could compromise the integrity of the method employed. Better to just observe and record the results of the observation. 

I just looked out the window and saw that the earth isn't flat. So what now?

How would you describe what you saw?

Like a bowl

You had best record your results and start a journal of some sort.  You should continue to observe and record so you have documentation of your claims. 

Why? I observed from my window that I live in a bowl, so the earth is a bowl. It's not gonna change suddenly.
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gotham

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2010, 02:51:57 PM »
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 02:44:53 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:43:57 PM
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 02:40:27 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 01:41:53 PM
Quote from: Skeleton on December 13, 2010, 10:43:27 AM
TD is right, the earth doesnt look flat. I keep saying this as well, nobody listens.

Throughout history people have observed it to be flat?  I confirmed that observation myself.  I have stood with a 360 degree view and slowly turned around looking over sea and land.  All flat.

You look over the sea and are able to see land beyond it, are you? Because that is the way every other flat plane appears, isn't it? Feel free to give examples of ANY other flat planes which have a fixed limit of visibility. List as many as you like.
When you say "the earth looks flat", what you actually are saying is "the earth looks like what I expect a flat earth would look like" because you haven't stopped to think what a flat earth really would look like.
Let's turn the question around - imagine the earth is a sphere. What would you EXPECT to see?

I would not go into the experiment with expectations as you stated.  That could compromise the integrity of the method employed. Better to just observe and record the results of the observation. 

I just looked out the window and saw that the earth isn't flat. So what now?

How would you describe what you saw?

Like a bowl

You had best record your results and start a journal of some sort.  You should continue to observe and record so you have documentation of your claims. 

Why? I observed from my window that I live in a bowl, so the earth is a bowl. It's not gonna change suddenly.

Walk to the top of bowl and look beyond always recording the different perspectives that you see.  It stands to reason that if you are in a bowl with very little distance in your view, you could be compromising the results of your experiment.
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Beorn

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2010, 02:57:30 PM »
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:51:57 PM
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 02:44:53 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:43:57 PM
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 02:40:27 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 01:41:53 PM
Quote from: Skeleton on December 13, 2010, 10:43:27 AM
TD is right, the earth doesnt look flat. I keep saying this as well, nobody listens.

Throughout history people have observed it to be flat?  I confirmed that observation myself.  I have stood with a 360 degree view and slowly turned around looking over sea and land.  All flat.

You look over the sea and are able to see land beyond it, are you? Because that is the way every other flat plane appears, isn't it? Feel free to give examples of ANY other flat planes which have a fixed limit of visibility. List as many as you like.
When you say "the earth looks flat", what you actually are saying is "the earth looks like what I expect a flat earth would look like" because you haven't stopped to think what a flat earth really would look like.
Let's turn the question around - imagine the earth is a sphere. What would you EXPECT to see?

I would not go into the experiment with expectations as you stated.  That could compromise the integrity of the method employed. Better to just observe and record the results of the observation. 

I just looked out the window and saw that the earth isn't flat. So what now?

How would you describe what you saw?

Like a bowl

You had best record your results and start a journal of some sort.  You should continue to observe and record so you have documentation of your claims. 

Why? I observed from my window that I live in a bowl, so the earth is a bowl. It's not gonna change suddenly.

Walk to the top of bowl and look beyond always recording the different perspectives that you see.  It stands to reason that if you are in a bowl with very little distance in your view, you could be compromising the results of your experiment.

So did you walk over the whole earth recording everything before you said it was flat?
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gotham

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2010, 03:18:58 PM »
The sample size was acceptable.  Take a read of Earth Not a Globe to get a more complete knowledge base on this.  There are concepts there that will assist you.
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Beorn

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2010, 03:21:10 PM »
How did you decide that the sample size was acceptable?
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gotham

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2010, 03:24:19 PM »
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 03:21:10 PM
How did you decide that the sample size was acceptable?

You will know more about that when you read ENaG.  You will then understand more than I can instruct you on.
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Beorn

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2010, 03:28:48 PM »
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 03:24:19 PM
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 03:21:10 PM
How did you decide that the sample size was acceptable?

You will know more about that when you read ENaG.  You will then understand more than I can instruct you on.

No you said that YOU observed that the earth is flat because you saw that. How do YOU know that YOUR sample size was acceptable. That's the zetetic way right?
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gotham

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2010, 03:35:47 PM »
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 03:28:48 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 03:24:19 PM
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 03:21:10 PM
How did you decide that the sample size was acceptable?

You will know more about that when you read ENaG.  You will then understand more than I can instruct you on.

No you said that YOU observed that the earth is flat because you saw that. How do YOU know that YOUR sample size was acceptable. That's the zetetic way right?

You are getting into the structure of a methodology that for you as advised by me is better served by doing your research and conducting experiments per your learning. I would be remiss to lead you astray when you are better served by gaining a knowledge base on your own.   
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Beorn

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2010, 03:41:51 PM »
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 03:35:47 PM
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 03:28:48 PM
Quote from: gotham on December 13, 2010, 03:24:19 PM
Quote from: Beorn on December 13, 2010, 03:21:10 PM
How did you decide that the sample size was acceptable?

You will know more about that when you read ENaG.  You will then understand more than I can instruct you on.

No you said that YOU observed that the earth is flat because you saw that. How do YOU know that YOUR sample size was acceptable. That's the zetetic way right?

You are getting into the structure of a methodology that for you as advised by me is better served by doing your research and conducting experiments per your learning. I would be remiss to lead you astray when you are better served by gaining a knowledge base on your own.   

Just to make sure, is "I have stood with a 360 degree view and slowly turned around looking over sea and land.  All flat. " counted as conducting an experiment? In that case again, the earth is a bowl.
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Thermal Detonator

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2010, 04:23:41 PM »
Still waiting for results from the thought experiment of "what would you expect to see if you were standing on a giant sphere?"
Perhaps they can't bring themselves to admit what the answer is.
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fluffycornsnake

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2010, 05:01:17 PM »
Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 04:23:41 PM
Still waiting for results from the thought experiment of "what would you expect to see if you were standing on a giant sphere?"
Perhaps they can't bring themselves to admit what the answer is.

I would expect to see curvature. I do not see curvature.
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General Disarray

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2010, 05:11:22 PM »
Quote from: fluffycornsnake on December 13, 2010, 05:01:17 PM
Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 04:23:41 PM
Still waiting for results from the thought experiment of "what would you expect to see if you were standing on a giant sphere?"
Perhaps they can't bring themselves to admit what the answer is.

I would expect to see curvature. I do not see curvature.

Exactly what type of curvature would you expect to see?
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fluffycornsnake

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2010, 05:20:09 PM »
Quote from: General Disarray on December 13, 2010, 05:11:22 PM
Quote from: fluffycornsnake on December 13, 2010, 05:01:17 PM
Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 04:23:41 PM
Still waiting for results from the thought experiment of "what would you expect to see if you were standing on a giant sphere?"
Perhaps they can't bring themselves to admit what the answer is.

I would expect to see curvature. I do not see curvature.

Exactly what type of curvature would you expect to see?

Any sort. At the very least I would expect some curvature along the horizon line separating sea and sky--but even from hilltops the line is completely flat.
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General Disarray

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2010, 05:52:54 PM »
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Quote from: Thork on April 02, 2012, 01:56:05 AM
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Thermal Detonator

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Re: A major flaw in the zetetic model
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2010, 05:54:41 PM »
Quote from: fluffycornsnake on December 13, 2010, 05:01:17 PM
Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 04:23:41 PM
Still waiting for results from the thought experiment of "what would you expect to see if you were standing on a giant sphere?"
Perhaps they can't bring themselves to admit what the answer is.

I would expect to see curvature. I do not see curvature.

And why would you expect to see curvature? In what direction would this curvature appear - going away from you, curving down to the side, or what? I need more of a description than just "curvature".
Logged
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.
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