Why This So Called Conspiracy is Economically Unfeasible

Your claim that NASA lying about almost everything that they have said about space (something they specialize in) is ludicrous. I admit that our government has done some strange things over the past years, but spending billions if not trillions on a giant lie is just not what the government does. If you think that NASA just launched an uncountably large amount of rockets, faked the moon landings, and lied to the American public about the geometric shape of the Earth, (I don't see any reason why a bunch of scientist trying to find out the truth of why stuff works would do that) then I have to say that you are way overestimating the money the government would spend to counter a well established theory that is advocated by every physicist and astronomer in the world. Please explain your reasoning.

Or every other government for that matter.

There are 3,000 man made satellites orbiting the earth, mostly privately owned telecommunication satellites.  I own a copy of the 1998 publication of all the satellites and their orbits etc from my short time with matra marconi space who were currently pretending to build a satellite for a korean telecommunication company, the hoax was incredible you could really believe they were actually doing it after touring all the departments and seeing all the high tech gagedtry in action, presumably just cardboard cut outs with tin foil and LEDS.

I even spent a day with the pretend governing body that allocate space above the earth and ensure that there is no conflict of location of satellites, and discuss problems with damaged satellites etc.  Of course these were all actors in an elaborate hoax to fool me, the visitor. Very cost effective tactic to maintain the conspiracy, as I have told several people about this since.

Sarcasm aside, the claim that the conspiracy is based around NASA is rediculous they represent a tiny fraction of the people involved in space science, the conspiracy would have to be many orders of magnitude bigger than any FE believer claims.  The claim that only 'a few people at the top of NASA' would need to know is laughable.  It would have to involve every public space agency and every private space agency, the majority of the telecommunication industry and almost every educational establishment that includes physics and telecommunications worldwide.  Almost everyone would be at most one or two degrees of separation from somebody who was part of the conspiracy. It is comically unfeasible for such a huge scale conspiracy to survive. You really think a significant proportion of the population could keep a secret from the rest of the population? Given that our politicians cant even keep their sex life a secret? Nobody would get pissed and let it slip ever?  Millions of people lying to their spouses?  Nobody ever accidently leaving a conspiracy document on the train?

It's the funniest part of FE belief after celestial gears in my opinion.

RE victory?

I think it is a round earth victory!!

agreed: Nasa does claim that only 'a few people at the top of NASA' would need to know is laughable.  It would have to involve every public space agency and every private space agency, the majority of the telecommunication industry and almost every educational establishment that includes physics and telecommunications worldwide.

Also see this: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=44527.0 for more reasons why the alleged conspiracy does not exist.

Sending space missions isn't cheaper than pretending to send.

And if you think the government isn't capable of spending billions on maintaining a huge lie, I recommend that you read Wikileaks.

Sending space missions isn't cheaper than pretending to send.

And if you think the government isn't capable of spending billions on maintaining a huge lie, I recommend that you read Wikileaks.

Wikileaks proves that the government is incapable of maintaining a secret, no matter how much money they spend or how much is at stake.

Wikileaks proves that the government is incapable of maintaining a secret, no matter how much money they spend or how much is at stake.

Wikileaks shows that the government managed to keep secrets for almost a decade. And they probably didn't even scratch the surface of government secrets.

So they failed to keep a secret for less than 10 years at a cost in the range of billions. To me, this indicates that a grand conspiracy spanning international borders and multiple governments which have been enemies in the past completely illogical.

Of course, this is an arguement the RE proponents will never win, as just about anything can be claimed as "part of the conspiracy". Might as well give it a rest.

Quote from: Ungoliant on December 13, 2010, 09:18:43 AM

Sending space missions isn't cheaper than pretending to send.

And if you think the government isn't capable of spending billions on maintaining a huge lie, I recommend that you read Wikileaks.

Wikileaks proves that the government is incapable of maintaining a secret, no matter how much money they spend or how much is at stake.

I think people who worked on stealth (among other undisclosed projects) might disagree.  Wikileaks post mostly embarrassing secrets, not the real juicy operational and research oriented stuff.

Great point, markjo. It was stupid of me to say the government is incapable of keeping secrets. However, this thread is mostly hearsay and conjecture, not much value. A conspiracy this large is unprecedented.

Sending space missions isn't cheaper than pretending to send.

And if you think the government isn't capable of spending billions on maintaining a huge lie, I recommend that you read Wikileaks.

As mentioned the conspiracy would not involve only the government, it would involve every private aerospace company, every telecommunications institute, every major educational body, every airline and air traffic controller, every developer of smart phones with GPS, the list goes on and on...  a significant percentage of the population

Ignoring this fact won't make it go away

One other point, the flat earth conspiracy was not on wikileaks.. WHAT A SURPRISE :O

As mentioned the conspiracy would not involve only the government, it would involve every private aerospace company, every telecommunications institute, every major educational body, every airline and air traffic controller, every developer of smart phones with GPS, the list goes on and on...  a significant percentage of the population

Ignoring this fact won't make it go away

One other point, the flat earth conspiracy was not on wikileaks.. WHAT A SURPRISE :O

A few months ago the diplomatic thingies also weren't.

But assuming that the conspiracy works the way the FEers say it does, I doubt people who work with GPSs would be part of it. They just depend on it, and could be fed the false GPS information.

Of course, it would still be quite a ridiculously unlikely conspiracy. I doubt it would work for that long even if it were just a bunch of guys in NASA conspiring. Eventually, someone who puts science in front of money, or someone dying and wanting to spread the truth would tell the truth.

But (correct me if I'm wrong) no one ever did that. The whole FET creates some theories and then invent a conspiracy to explain some stuff, while most other wacky folk first think of the conspiracy then create some theories to explain some stuff.

Quote from: fenterb on December 15, 2010, 04:02:01 AM

As mentioned the conspiracy would not involve only the government, it would involve every private aerospace company, every telecommunications institute, every major educational body, every airline and air traffic controller, every developer of smart phones with GPS, the list goes on and on...  a significant percentage of the population

Ignoring this fact won't make it go away

One other point, the flat earth conspiracy was not on wikileaks.. WHAT A SURPRISE :O

A few months ago the diplomatic thingies also weren't.

But assuming that the conspiracy works the way the FEers say it does, I doubt people who work with GPSs would be part of it. They just depend on it, and could be fed the false GPS information.

Que? They would give false GPS information that would send every car in the right direction, and predicts trafic jam?

Que? They would give false GPS information that would send every car in the right direction, and predicts trafic jam?

Como assim? Not false in the way I think you're thinking (putting roads in wrong locations, etc), but tilting them slightly so they seem to be taken from a spherical Earth.

Think of it this way: a flat (Mercator style) map can still be accurately used even though the Earth is spherical.

Quote from: Beorn on December 15, 2010, 01:47:41 PM

Que? They would give false GPS information that would send every car in the right direction, and predicts trafic jam?

Como assim? Not false in the way I think you're thinking (putting roads in wrong locations, etc), but tilting them slightly so they seem to be taken from a spherical Earth.

Think of it this way: a flat (Mercator style) map can still be accurately used even though the Earth is spherical.

Any map projection can be used if the scale is suitably large enough.  Thats why we don't need to lug around globes on boats when travelling but flat charts.

Berny
Thinks this topic has been rehashed before - Thork?

Well we could even strike GPS off the list to stop thread derailment, that still leaves the telecommunications industry which is heavily reliant on satellites made by scores of private aerospace companies, the met offices who use global data to predict weather, all the airlines companies that fly around a flat earth but pretend it is a globe and fly around in circles to maintain the illusion, and a significant percentage of the scientific community.  Personally I would have to have met many conspirators and even my fiance would have to be in on the conspiracy too as an astrobiologist.

Well we could even strike GPS off the list to stop thread derailment, that still leaves the telecommunications industry which is heavily reliant on satellites made by scores of private aerospace companies, the met offices who use global data to predict weather, all the airlines companies that fly around a flat earth but pretend it is a globe and fly around in circles to maintain the illusion, and a significant percentage of the scientific community.  Personally I would have to have met many conspirators and even my fiance would have to be in on the conspiracy too as an astrobiologist.

GPS really hasn't been around that long.  I still remember having access to LORAN and radio beacons for basic navigation.  Airplanes still flew around the earth without GPS.  We could ask Thork - airline pilot, what multitude of navigation options exist for pilots.

Berny
Sextants are harder to use than they look.

Airplanes still flew around the earth without GPS. 

Yeah they just flew around the earth using RE maps before GPS.  Unless it's a flat earth in which case they flew around the earth using the FE maps that don't exist and we've never seen and pretended they were using RE maps as all airline companies would have to be part of the conspiracy

We could ask Thork - airline pilot, what multitude of navigation options exist for pilots.

He's not really an airline pilot, we haven't seen any proof so it can't be true.



 

Quote from: berny_74 on December 16, 2010, 06:57:25 AM

We could ask Thork - airline pilot, what multitude of navigation options exist for pilots.

He's not really an airline pilot, we haven't seen any proof so it can't be true.

Well I am fairly sure he is not an "Airline" pilot, but he was studying, and I believe he is certified for small stuff - he's also show personal pics which is always a bonus. And yes I know pics can be faked and we can invent things up here but generally a personal pic can expand on our personal direct (cough) sensorial evidencial experiences.

And unlike Cassterides I don't think we're all 10 year old wannabe emo kids stuck in front of a pc with no life.  Some of us have gone out and seen parts of the world.  Except Englsh Gentleman who shudders at the balmy temps of 12C.

Berny
Thork - ever thought of learning to fly a Gyro-copter?

... and even my fiance would have to be in on the conspiracy too as an astrobiologist.

I doubt your fiance is in on the conspiracy. But you can never be too careful about fiances...

Quote from: fenterb on December 16, 2010, 12:31:55 AM

... and even my fiance would have to be in on the conspiracy too as an astrobiologist.

I doubt your fiance is in on the conspiracy. But you can never be too careful about fiances...

Its a different kind of conspiracy. 

Berny
Divorced at last.

I have a current European Commercial License, instrument rating, multi-engine rating, night rating, multi crew certificate and some other bits and bobs. I am unemployed at the moment, (Lost job about 2 months ago) but I am qualified and applying for jobs at all the major European Airlines right now (also for jobs in Asia). The pictures of me in small aircraft are because flying is also my hobby and no one will let me do loops in a 737 full of passengers. Small aircraft are much more fun and also I don't ask the Captain to take photos of me, but my friends do when I take them for a spin. Oh, and I have had my license since 2007 so I was never studying whilst at FES. I have always been qualified. Went flying 2 days ago for some fun - adhoc work - flew an ex F18/F14 US military pilot about and gave him instruction (I am familiar on that type + 300 hours and he had never flown one - he said I was a very good pilot) love work like that, I fly with some awesome pilots. Haven't flown much recently, but I miss it.

Thork
Just for the record.

Can a 737 do loops?

Can a 737 do loops?

I've done loops in the jumbo jet in GTA San Andreas before, its pretty difficult but possible.

I have a current European Commercial License, instrument rating, multi-engine rating, night rating, multi crew certificate and some other bits and bobs. I am unemployed at the moment, (Lost job about 2 months ago) but I am qualified and applying for jobs at all the major European Airlines right now (also for jobs in Asia). The pictures of me in small aircraft are because flying is also my hobby and no one will let me do loops in a 737 full of passengers. Small aircraft are much more fun and also I don't ask the Captain to take photos of me, but my friends do when I take them for a spin. Oh, and I have had my license since 2007 so I was never studying whilst at FES. I have always been qualified. Went flying 2 days ago for some fun - adhoc work - flew an ex F18/F14 US military pilot about and gave him instruction (I am familiar on that type + 300 hours and he had never flown one - he said I was a very good pilot) love work like that, I fly with some awesome pilots. Haven't flown much recently, but I miss it.

Thork
Just for the record.

do you have any evidence to back up your outlandish claim?

Can a 737 do loops?

You could roll it. With enough altitude and airspeed (and a low gross weight) you could probably loop it, but I'd be worried about the V_NE and over-stressing the airframe on the backend.