Ghosts

This is a question about the Zetetic method, mostly...

Now, this is a serious question.  I'm not trolling, not insulting—I've been around long enough to know how to act around here and how serious people are about their hypothesis.

My question is this:  Do Zetetics believe in ghosts?  You rely on direct sensory evidence, right?  If I see something that looks like a ghost to me—which regular methods explain away—am I to believe I actually am seeing a ghost or some apparition?

Do Zetetics believe in ghosts?  You rely on direct sensory evidence, right? 

I've never seen a ghost.

Maybe not, but say something like that happens.  It's well-documented, sometimes people will see what they believe to be a ghost, some figure that moves across their line of sight.  Mainstream science explains it with things like vibrations, trick of your mind, hallucinations, and whatnot.  But in the Zetetic way, would you basically assume it to be what it appears to be?

I've never seen a ghost.

The earth is flat like a coin. Some of the dead live on the underside as ghosts "Hell". Tortured by the exposure to constant UA, and the darkness of space (Sun is top side), a few occasionally make it to the sunward surface and roam about in dusty old houses. On Halloween, great armies of them begin a trip starting at dawn, crawling over the rim, past the ice wall. By Midnight (The witching hour), they have made it to the northern Hemisphere, where they spook the good citzens of the living world.

Now I suspect you were hoping for a silly answer like this, but nowhere does FE have anything in it about ghosts. Just because FErs suspect the earth to be flat, does not mean they suspect the existence of ghosts, big-foot, unicorns, leprechauns or the Easter Bunny. The very point of Zetetism is that you observe and test something to make absolutely sure that whatever you observe, is and can only be identified correctly.

...like I just said in the first post, I'm being serious.  I've come to terms with the seriousness of the site.  I'm sorry that I try to be polite and take this seriously and you have to go and practically insult me by making a post like that.  I was hoping for a bit of a nicer response.

The point of Zeteticism, as far as I've read and as Wilmore's said, is to trust what your senses say and use what you see as evidence.  And if you saw some sort of "apparition" like that, would it not be in line with Zeteticism to assume it's something supernatural?  This is an honest question.  I'm not poking fun at anyone, you can even give me a simple "no" and explain why.  I'm asking you guys.

You're asking people to examine something which most have never experienced, something considered to be supernatural.  How is this to be accomplished?

With the good-old fashioned trick of thinking hypothetically.

You're asking people to examine something which most have never experienced, something considered to be supernatural.  How is this to be accomplished?

Ask the ghost hunters: http://www.the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com/

With the good-old fashioned trick of thinking hypothetically.

To do as you suggest, I would first have to assume and imagine the physicality of a ghost.  This would be an exercise in anti-zeteticism in my humble opinion.

Well, I'm not asking you to do it if you don't want to, then.  Leave it for whoever is willing to answer my question.

Maybe not, but say something like that happens.  It's well-documented, sometimes people will see what they believe to be a ghost, some figure that moves across their line of sight.  Mainstream science explains it with things like vibrations, trick of your mind, hallucinations, and whatnot.  But in the Zetetic way, would you basically assume it to be what it appears to be?

If I saw a shadow move quickly over my line of sight, all it leads me to believe is that I saw a shadow.

If I'm walking through a dark hallway and hear some creaking, all it leads me to believe is that I'm hearing some creaking.

But if a semi-transparent poltergeist appeared in the middle of my kitchen while making dinner and it started throwing around chairs, slamming cupboard doors, braking dishes, all while shrieking and otherwise making a nuisance as poltergeists are said to do, then yes, I might be inclined to believe in the possibility of poltergeists.

I would believe in poltergeists because I was presented empirical evidence of their existence. The first two examples I gave do not provide empirical evidence for the existence of poltergeists and, thus, can be discounted.

Quote from: Supertails on December 08, 2010, 02:04:16 AM

Maybe not, but say something like that happens.  It's well-documented, sometimes people will see what they believe to be a ghost, some figure that moves across their line of sight.  Mainstream science explains it with things like vibrations, trick of your mind, hallucinations, and whatnot.  But in the Zetetic way, would you basically assume it to be what it appears to be?

If I saw a shadow move quickly over my line of sight, all it leads me to believe is that I saw a shadow.

If I'm walking through a dark hallway and hear some creaking, all it leads me to believe is that I'm hearing some creaking.

But if a semi-transparent poltergeist appeared in the middle of my kitchen while making dinner and it started throwing around chairs, slamming cupboard doors, braking dishes, all while shrieking and otherwise making a nuisance as poltergeists are said to do, then yes, I might be inclined to believe in the possibility of poltergeists.

I would believe in poltergeists because I was presented empirical evidence of their existence. The first two examples I gave do not provide empirical evidence for the existence of poltergeists and, thus, can be discounted.

If a ghost throws a chair, does it fall to Earth or does the Earth rise toward it?

Ghosts are just rogue programs in the matrix. Everyone knows that.

Quote from: Supertails on December 08, 2010, 02:04:16 AM

Maybe not, but say something like that happens.  It's well-documented, sometimes people will see what they believe to be a ghost, some figure that moves across their line of sight.  Mainstream science explains it with things like vibrations, trick of your mind, hallucinations, and whatnot.  But in the Zetetic way, would you basically assume it to be what it appears to be?

If I saw a shadow move quickly over my line of sight, all it leads me to believe is that I saw a shadow.

If I'm walking through a dark hallway and hear some creaking, all it leads me to believe is that I'm hearing some creaking.

But if a semi-transparent poltergeist appeared in the middle of my kitchen while making dinner and it started throwing around chairs, slamming cupboard doors, braking dishes, all while shrieking and otherwise making a nuisance as poltergeists are said to do, then yes, I might be inclined to believe in the possibility of poltergeists.

I would believe in poltergeists because I was presented empirical evidence of their existence. The first two examples I gave do not provide empirical evidence for the existence of poltergeists and, thus, can be discounted.

So you don't think that the earth is flat, but that the small part of the earth that you've seen is flat. Thank you for clearing that up.

I have seen something I could not explain, but I don't know that it proves the existence of ghosts. Only that there are things I cannot understand.

I have seen something I could not explain, but I don't know that it proves the existence of ghosts. Only that there are things I cannot understand.

Or do not yet understand. 

Certainly. The point is that I do not hold the experience proves the existence of the supernatural (though it certainly makes me more open to the idea than I was previous to the experience).

Any phenomenon sufficiently not understood is indistinguishable from the supernatural.

Gravity, Universal Expansion, etc?

Gravity, Universal Expansion, etc?

Observed and quantified. 

Alright, thank you to Tom Bishop and Ski!  My question's been answered.  Thank you.

Any phenomenon sufficiently not understood is indistinguishable from the supernatural.

All supernatural events are just natural events lacking an explanation.