FEers STILL can't answer this basic question

Actually, it's a set of basic questions.

Claim: The Earth being round is apparently faked by a bunch of conspirators.

Problems; lots, but two very fundamental ones:

1. When and how did the conspiracy start?
2. How did the conspirators figure out the "true" shape of the Earth?  Why are they the only ones that figure it out?  Why didn't Galieo, Newton, Einstein, etc. figure it out?

Answers:

1. It didn't.  In order for the conspiracy to have covered up the numerous examples of circumnavigating the globe, it would have to predate the NASA space program, thus meaning that there would be no motive.
2. They didn't.  The conspirators would have no logical way of knowing the shape of the Earth to any greater extent than today's scientists do.

Possible rebuttals:

1. They could have been preparing for the NASA space program!
    -Implausible, as there would not be any motive for those people to prepare some grand scheme so that future generations can scam people of money, not to mention that they could not have known that the NASA space program could have started, as it started due to many circumstances beyond their control.
2. They could have thought that the Earth was round before but then changed their minds upon viewing satellite photos, and quickly devised a conspiracy to cover it up.
   -Implausible, the time needed to devise of such a conspiracy would take far, far, far too long to devise on the spot.
Alternative rebuttal for number 2. They could have figured it out using the same methods that this forum uses.
  -Laughable that some random conspirators would be more knowledgeable than the combined consensus of today's Scientists.

Conclusion: If the Earth were flat, the conspirators would not have any way of knowing that that Scientists for some reason wouldn't also know from.  Unless if aliens came and told them, or some angel came and told them, they would have absolutely no more clue about the shape of the Earth than today's scientists, who know for a fact that the Earth is round, especially from satellite images from space.  Therefore, the conspiracy is clearly bogus, and therefore the Earth is round.

The conspiracy likely finds its roots in the BGMG. It's possible it predates that, but unliklely.

Actually, it's a set of basic questions.

Claim: The Earth being round is apparently faked by a bunch of conspirators.

Problems; lots, but two very fundamental ones:

1. When and how did the conspiracy start?
2. How did the conspirators figure out the "true" shape of the Earth?  Why are they the only ones that figure it out?  Why didn't Galieo, Newton, Einstein, etc. figure it out?

Answers:

1. It didn't.  In order for the conspiracy to have covered up the numerous examples of circumnavigating the globe, it would have to predate the NASA space program, thus meaning that there would be no motive.
2. They didn't.  The conspirators would have no logical way of knowing the shape of the Earth to any greater extent than today's scientists do.

Possible rebuttals:

1. They could have been preparing for the NASA space program!
    -Implausible, as there would not be any motive for those people to prepare some grand scheme so that future generations can scam people of money, not to mention that they could not have known that the NASA space program could have started, as it started due to many circumstances beyond their control.
2. They could have thought that the Earth was round before but then changed their minds upon viewing satellite photos, and quickly devised a conspiracy to cover it up.
   -Implausible, the time needed to devise of such a conspiracy would take far, far, far too long to devise on the spot.
Alternative rebuttal for number 2. They could have figured it out using the same methods that this forum uses.
  -Laughable that some random conspirators would be more knowledgeable than the combined consensus of today's Scientists.

Conclusion: If the Earth were flat, the conspirators would not have any way of knowing that that Scientists for some reason wouldn't also know from.  Unless if aliens came and told them, or some angel came and told them, they would have absolutely no more clue about the shape of the Earth than today's scientists, who know for a fact that the Earth is round, especially from satellite images from space.  Therefore, the conspiracy is clearly bogus, and therefore the Earth is round.

See: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+Conspiracy

Quote from: RoundEarthGuy on December 03, 2010, 12:50:15 PM

Actually, it's a set of basic questions.

Claim: The Earth being round is apparently faked by a bunch of conspirators.

Problems; lots, but two very fundamental ones:

1. When and how did the conspiracy start?
2. How did the conspirators figure out the "true" shape of the Earth?  Why are they the only ones that figure it out?  Why didn't Galieo, Newton, Einstein, etc. figure it out?

Answers:

1. It didn't.  In order for the conspiracy to have covered up the numerous examples of circumnavigating the globe, it would have to predate the NASA space program, thus meaning that there would be no motive.
2. They didn't.  The conspirators would have no logical way of knowing the shape of the Earth to any greater extent than today's scientists do.

Possible rebuttals:

1. They could have been preparing for the NASA space program!
    -Implausible, as there would not be any motive for those people to prepare some grand scheme so that future generations can scam people of money, not to mention that they could not have known that the NASA space program could have started, as it started due to many circumstances beyond their control.
2. They could have thought that the Earth was round before but then changed their minds upon viewing satellite photos, and quickly devised a conspiracy to cover it up.
   -Implausible, the time needed to devise of such a conspiracy would take far, far, far too long to devise on the spot.
Alternative rebuttal for number 2. They could have figured it out using the same methods that this forum uses.
  -Laughable that some random conspirators would be more knowledgeable than the combined consensus of today's Scientists.

Conclusion: If the Earth were flat, the conspirators would not have any way of knowing that that Scientists for some reason wouldn't also know from.  Unless if aliens came and told them, or some angel came and told them, they would have absolutely no more clue about the shape of the Earth than today's scientists, who know for a fact that the Earth is round, especially from satellite images from space.  Therefore, the conspiracy is clearly bogus, and therefore the Earth is round.

See: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+Conspiracy

That doesn't answer any of the problems with the conspiracy that I pointed out.  With all due respect, did you even read my post, or assume that your FAQ covered it without reading my post?

They wouldn't be much of a conspiracy if we knew when and how they started.
What, did you expect them to register a non-profit organization?

Quote from: RoundEarthGuy on December 03, 2010, 12:50:15 PM

Actually, it's a set of basic questions.

Claim: The Earth being round is apparently faked by a bunch of conspirators.

Problems; lots, but two very fundamental ones:

1. When and how did the conspiracy start?
2. How did the conspirators figure out the "true" shape of the Earth?  Why are they the only ones that figure it out?  Why didn't Galieo, Newton, Einstein, etc. figure it out?

Answers:

1. It didn't.  In order for the conspiracy to have covered up the numerous examples of circumnavigating the globe, it would have to predate the NASA space program, thus meaning that there would be no motive.
2. They didn't.  The conspirators would have no logical way of knowing the shape of the Earth to any greater extent than today's scientists do.

Possible rebuttals:

1. They could have been preparing for the NASA space program!
    -Implausible, as there would not be any motive for those people to prepare some grand scheme so that future generations can scam people of money, not to mention that they could not have known that the NASA space program could have started, as it started due to many circumstances beyond their control.
2. They could have thought that the Earth was round before but then changed their minds upon viewing satellite photos, and quickly devised a conspiracy to cover it up.
   -Implausible, the time needed to devise of such a conspiracy would take far, far, far too long to devise on the spot.
Alternative rebuttal for number 2. They could have figured it out using the same methods that this forum uses.
  -Laughable that some random conspirators would be more knowledgeable than the combined consensus of today's Scientists.

Conclusion: If the Earth were flat, the conspirators would not have any way of knowing that that Scientists for some reason wouldn't also know from.  Unless if aliens came and told them, or some angel came and told them, they would have absolutely no more clue about the shape of the Earth than today's scientists, who know for a fact that the Earth is round, especially from satellite images from space.  Therefore, the conspiracy is clearly bogus, and therefore the Earth is round.

See: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+Conspiracy

Tom, you should really check those links and REMOVE any that no longer exist.

There isn't much point talking about the conspiracy. It will never be proven either way, that's the point of a good conspiracy.

There isn't much point talking about the conspiracy. It will never be proven either way, that's the point of a good conspiracy.

The word you are looking for is "unfalsifiable".

Why do FE'ers seem to ignore threads that they can't answer?

Why do FE'ers seem to ignore threads that they can't answer?

... because they can't answer them.

Why do FE'ers seem to ignore threads that they can't answer?

Why does everyone assume we ignore threads? There are like a dozen threads made by noobs in each fora a day. I don't have time to post in them all. This is the first time I have look at this thread.

Quote from: RoundEarthGuy on December 07, 2010, 12:58:22 PM

Why do FE'ers seem to ignore threads that they can't answer?

Why does everyone assume we ignore threads? There are like a dozen threads made by noobs in each fora a day. I don't have time to post in them all. This is the first time I have look at this thread.

There have been lots of threads posted by wily old hands like me that have been ignored. If you want something to get your teeth into then you will explain why it's possible to travel to 90^o south but not 91^o. Or why if you use trigonometry on the angle of dishes supposedly receiving signals from geostationary satellites, they always confirm the satellite's height to be 35,786 km above the earth. Or you could try explaining the Bilocation Paradox.

Concession accepted.

In order for the conspiracy to have covered up the numerous examples of circumnavigating the globe

FET doesn't exclude circumnavigation. A quote from the FAQ:

Remember, the northern point on the compass is pointing toward the center of the Earth. If you follow your compass due east or due west, ending up at the same point you started from, you have just gone around the world in a circle. Thus, circumnavigation is possible on FE.

Quote

In order for the conspiracy to have covered up the numerous examples of circumnavigating the globe

FET doesn't exclude circumnavigation.

But it does question the integrity of around the world sail boat racers.
http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/race/route.html

How so?

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on December 07, 2010, 01:12:11 PM

Quote from: RoundEarthGuy on December 07, 2010, 12:58:22 PM

Why do FE'ers seem to ignore threads that they can't answer?

Why does everyone assume we ignore threads? There are like a dozen threads made by noobs in each fora a day. I don't have time to post in them all. This is the first time I have look at this thread.

There have been lots of threads posted by wily old hands like me that have been ignored. If you want something to get your teeth into then you will explain why it's possible to travel to 90^o south but not 91^o. Or why if you use trigonometry on the angle of dishes supposedly receiving signals from geostationary satellites, they always confirm the satellite's height to be 35,786 km above the earth. Or you could try explaining the Bilocation Paradox.

Please do not post off-topic.

Concession accepted.

lol what? We answered you, and there are plenty of threads answering this too. I suggest you lurk moar if you found our answer unsatisfactory.

Quote

In order for the conspiracy to have covered up the numerous examples of circumnavigating the globe

FET doesn't exclude circumnavigation. A quote from the FAQ:

Quote

Remember, the northern point on the compass is pointing toward the center of the Earth. If you follow your compass due east or due west, ending up at the same point you started from, you have just gone around the world in a circle. Thus, circumnavigation is possible on FE.

The problem is that the southern point of a compass points to a corresponding point that also could be considered the center of the earth.  The current FE model cannot disprove that Antarctica is the centre of the world and the Arctic is the ice Rim.  In fact arguments for FE more strongly prove that the Arctic is actually the edge of the world and the Antarctic the Center.

Berny
Flat Tires, Round Earth

The problem is that the southern point of a compass points to a corresponding point that also could be considered the center of the earth.  The current FE model cannot disprove that Antarctica is the centre of the world and the Arctic is the ice Rim.  In fact arguments for FE more strongly prove that the Arctic is actually the edge of the world and the Antarctic the Center.

Berny
Flat Tires, Round Earth

Assuming the model where the south pole isn't a "pole" in the geometrical sense but a circumference, I think that the current model would still apply; although I have no idea whether it is possible for that even to exist.

Of course, it is more likely for flat earthers to say the north pole is the centre because it has been used to ages, by common folk (non-conspirative), as a trading passage, and couldn't be explained in the current model.

Quote from: berny_74 on December 13, 2010, 10:20:03 AM

The problem is that the southern point of a compass points to a corresponding point that also could be considered the center of the earth.  The current FE model cannot disprove that Antarctica is the centre of the world and the Arctic is the ice Rim.  In fact arguments for FE more strongly prove that the Arctic is actually the edge of the world and the Antarctic the Center.

Berny
Flat Tires, Round Earth

Assuming the model where the south pole isn't a "pole" in the geometrical sense but a circumference, I think that the current model would still apply; although I have no idea whether it is possible for that even to exist.

Of course, it is more likely for flat earthers to say the north pole is the centre because it has been used to ages, by common folk (non-conspirative), as a trading passage, and couldn't be explained in the current model.

My main point was that every visible proof that FE'ers use for promoting the North as the "The Pole" can just as easily be used to prove that the South is The Pole.

Berny
Why do cats love to release their hairballs in freshly folded laundry?

Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 09, 2010, 12:12:25 PM

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on December 07, 2010, 01:12:11 PM

Quote from: RoundEarthGuy on December 07, 2010, 12:58:22 PM

Why do FE'ers seem to ignore threads that they can't answer?

Why does everyone assume we ignore threads? There are like a dozen threads made by noobs in each fora a day. I don't have time to post in them all. This is the first time I have look at this thread.

There have been lots of threads posted by wily old hands like me that have been ignored. If you want something to get your teeth into then you will explain why it's possible to travel to 90^o south but not 91^o. Or why if you use trigonometry on the angle of dishes supposedly receiving signals from geostationary satellites, they always confirm the satellite's height to be 35,786 km above the earth. Or you could try explaining the Bilocation Paradox.

Please do not post off-topic.

Quote from: RoundEarthGuy on December 12, 2010, 11:14:05 AM

Concession accepted.

lol what? We answered you, and there are plenty of threads answering this too. I suggest you lurk moar if you found our answer unsatisfactory.

If you think I'm posting off topic, then you need to chastise those people who referred to flat guys ignoring threads, because my comment was completely pertinent to that. They are examples of other ignored topics in threads, which is what the current discussion was about. They are also unanswered basic questions, I suggest you look at the title of this thread.
However, the real reason you felt the need to memberate was because being unable to reconcile my examples with FET made you uncomfortable.

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on December 13, 2010, 10:03:22 AM

Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 09, 2010, 12:12:25 PM

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on December 07, 2010, 01:12:11 PM

Quote from: RoundEarthGuy on December 07, 2010, 12:58:22 PM

Why do FE'ers seem to ignore threads that they can't answer?

Why does everyone assume we ignore threads? There are like a dozen threads made by noobs in each fora a day. I don't have time to post in them all. This is the first time I have look at this thread.

There have been lots of threads posted by wily old hands like me that have been ignored. If you want something to get your teeth into then you will explain why it's possible to travel to 90^o south but not 91^o. Or why if you use trigonometry on the angle of dishes supposedly receiving signals from geostationary satellites, they always confirm the satellite's height to be 35,786 km above the earth. Or you could try explaining the Bilocation Paradox.

Please do not post off-topic.

Quote from: RoundEarthGuy on December 12, 2010, 11:14:05 AM

Concession accepted.

lol what? We answered you, and there are plenty of threads answering this too. I suggest you lurk moar if you found our answer unsatisfactory.

If you think I'm posting off topic, then you need to chastise those people who referred to flat guys ignoring threads, because my comment was completely pertinent to that. They are examples of other ignored topics in threads, which is what the current discussion was about. They are also unanswered basic questions, I suggest you look at the title of this thread.
However, the real reason you felt the need to memberate was because being unable to reconcile my examples with FET made you uncomfortable.

I fully accept that I too, was posting off topic, however, that does not justify you to also post off-topic. Telling you to make a thread if you want to discuss a subject is not memberating.

My post concerned basic questions which flat guys have been unable to answer. See thread title and then stop bleating.

My post concerned basic questions which flat guys have been unable to answer. See thread title and then stop bleating.

Read the OP and notice your questions had nothing to do with the thread. Just because you can link it to the thread title doesn't mean it is relevant. By this logic I could turn this into a giant philosophy thread since there are basic questions of that kind that haven't been answered.

Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 01:58:51 PM

My post concerned basic questions which flat guys have been unable to answer. See thread title and then stop bleating.

Read the OP and notice your questions had nothing to do with the thread. Just because you can link it to the thread title doesn't mean it is relevant. By this logic I could turn this into a giant philosophy thread since there are basic questions of that kind that haven't been answered.

I almost care.

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on December 13, 2010, 03:34:23 PM

Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 01:58:51 PM

My post concerned basic questions which flat guys have been unable to answer. See thread title and then stop bleating.

Read the OP and notice your questions had nothing to do with the thread. Just because you can link it to the thread title doesn't mean it is relevant. By this logic I could turn this into a giant philosophy thread since there are basic questions of that kind that haven't been answered.

I almost care.

Considering you spent the time to type a response, it seems you do.

Good to see that when you are shown to be wrong in your ways you fall to, "Well I didn't care anyways".

Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 04:24:40 PM

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on December 13, 2010, 03:34:23 PM

Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 13, 2010, 01:58:51 PM

My post concerned basic questions which flat guys have been unable to answer. See thread title and then stop bleating.

Read the OP and notice your questions had nothing to do with the thread. Just because you can link it to the thread title doesn't mean it is relevant. By this logic I could turn this into a giant philosophy thread since there are basic questions of that kind that haven't been answered.

I almost care.

Considering you spent the time to type a response, it seems you do.

Good to see that when you are shown to be wrong in your ways you fall to, "Well I didn't care anyways".

How should I react if I really do hardly care whatsoever? Since you can't distinguish between genuine disinterest and bluster, then it doesn't matter really.

Sorry to bump this, but either you FEers are intentionally ignoring the point of the OP or are too stupid to figure out its meaning:

FEers claim that there are there conspirators that know the true shape of the Earth and hide it.

This thread is about the "that know the true shape of the Earth" part.

The question: HOW do they know?  How do the conspirators know what the "true" shape of the Earth was and why didn't scientists like Einstein also figure it out?  Why did a bunch of politicians somehow figure out the "true" shape of the Earth when famous scientists couldn't?

Basically, this thread isn't about how the conspirators cover up the supposed conspiracy; it's how they even got the idea that the Earth wasn't round.  Did aliens come and tell them?  Did some random omnipotent being come and tell them?  Did they figure out themselves using their awesome genius that scientists like Einstein apparently couldn't?

Wouldn't be hilarious if the conspirators were actually wrong, the Earth actually is round, and they were trying make up a cover story that was actually true?   

Sorry to bump this, but either you FEers are intentionally ignoring the point of the OP or are too stupid to figure out its meaning:

FEers claim that there are there conspirators that know the true shape of the Earth and hide it.

This thread is about the "that know the true shape of the Earth" part.

The question: HOW do they know?  How do the conspirators know what the "true" shape of the Earth was and why didn't scientists like Einstein also figure it out?  Why did a bunch of politicians somehow figure out the "true" shape of the Earth when famous scientists couldn't?

Basically, this thread isn't about how the conspirators cover up the supposed conspiracy; it's how they even got the idea that the Earth wasn't round.  Did aliens come and tell them?  Did some random omnipotent being come and tell them?  Did they figure out themselves using their awesome genius that scientists like Einstein apparently couldn't?

Wouldn't be hilarious if the conspirators were actually wrong, the Earth actually is round, and they were trying make up a cover story that was actually true?   

To be honest with you RoundEarthGuy, the longer I hand out here the more it looks like that at least 50% of active members persist in railroading or blindsiding genuine RE points that are tricky to explain with FE theory or they have not come up with a satisfactory explanation for yet. These people pretend to be FE believers when they are actually not at all. There are a small number of true believers so it seems (or very good impostors) but it is looking more and more like the case for an FE conspiracy rather than an RE one.

To be frank, most true believers tire of answering the same accusations ad nauseum. A scant few weeks ago, I re-posted several brief posts I have made in the past. I will re-post it here again. The truth is conspiracy threads are rarely fruitful, and I'm not terribly interested in becoming a conspiracy evangelist. We're not ignoring the posts -- we've answered them before.

Quote from: Ericleb01 on August 29, 2010, 05:40:33 PM

Then tell me what was the motivation and what was so compelling about thinking that the Earth is round? It has been properly established long before Galilei's time (the oldest-known spherical globe dates a few years before Columbus' renowned journey), so taking into account of your claim that there was, in fact, no conspiracy present at the time, all evidence brought up in that era cannot have been maliciously intended (i.e., there was no motivation to make such evidence false).

Quote from: Ski on October 07, 2008, 12:39:07 PM

In the late 15th century cartography was entering an exciting new time. New lands were being found. Previously uncharted islands, indeed even continents, were being added to world maps. The BGMG found a splendid way to find massive amounts of Royal funding (commissions). If you convince burgeoning world powers that their maps are completely inadequate and only a globe can accurately depict the earth, you're in for a lot of commissioned work. Add to that the fact globes became a status simple in vogue among the wealthy of the period and you have an enormous cash cow.
But this ignores (or only scrapes) the actual depth of the plan. The goal of the BGMG was not map-making or wealth from it. The goal was power. To gain influence at court led to all sorts of potential for abuse of such power. This was an age where the court was the center of power; "scientists" vied to have their ideas heard. The difference between living in obscurity and becoming a household name was a "discovery" away. Further, it was the Age of Discovery, where untold wealth might be a ship's journey away for a kingdom -- indeed this was the genesis of European imperialism. Map makers invented islands and continents to attain funding for expeditions. The closer you find yourselves to the strings of power, the more opportunity for corruption.

And certainly not all evidence from the era was malicious. It was simply fallacious. For example Eratosthenes's experiment in antiquity which assumes parallel light rays from a very distant sun was certainly not malicious.