Look at this rubbish.

Under the cover of capitalist backed modern medicine, occultism and atheism have caused the widespread proliferation of terminal diseases and degenerative illnesses like cancer which were unknown whenever and wherever the four humors philosophy prevailed.  Artificial food including chemical agriculture which includes mostly poisons is also part of the science of death which has replaced Hippocratic medicine and natural food. 
Modern diagnosis such as cellular diagnosis of disease such as used in a pap smear is inferior to virtually any branch of tradtional four humors medicine.  Modern medicine is simply garbage, and thus it goes under cover of mysterious and knowledgeable sounding names such as cytopathology (cellular diagnosis) which most people have to look up in order to know what it means, but complicated words, big buildings, and money do not heal people. 

This was posted by 17th November in the "Spethial Peeple Onlie" section. What total garbage. Feel free to pour scorn on this tripe. We all know how much more effective bleeding someone heavily was at curing an infection than, say, penicillin. How I laughed as I died of infective tonsillitis.

I would hazard a guess that 17November has done far more research than you on this subject. He always does. And that you probably know very little and have read even less.

I also notice your post has no evidence to counter his claims, nor provides any information whatsoever.

November 17 is in the 'FE Believers club' because he is an FET treasure. I am more of an FET trinket and so do not have this access, the same as you. And whilst it doesn't bother me, as I would have little to contribute in these matters, I am pleased they have a section such as this to post their findings, which I can read later. It is nice they can post somewhere without people disrupting their discussions with

What total garbage. Feel free to pour scorn on this tripe.

So did you have a point to make?

Thork FTW!

I would hazard a guess that 17November has done far more research than you on this subject. He always does. And that you probably know very little and have read even less.

I also notice your post has no evidence to counter his claims, nor provides any information whatsoever.

November 17 is in the 'FE Believers club' because he is an FET treasure. I am more of an FET trinket and so do not have this access, the same as you. And whilst it doesn't bother me, as I would have little to contribute in these matters, I am pleased they have a section such as this to post their findings, which I can read later. It is nice they can post somewhere without people disrupting their discussions with

Quote from: Skeleton on December 02, 2010, 07:20:57 AM

What total garbage. Feel free to pour scorn on this tripe.

So did you have a point to make?

Thank you for the ad hominem. I can assure you I know far more about modern medicine than 17th November. If you want to dispute this I can send you a copy of my powerpoint presentation on pulmonary embolism and bronchial carcinoma case studies, along with the 5000 word accompanying notes (with references). If you want proof he doesnt bother to do his homework, then check out De tumoribus praeter naturam by Galen. It is a treatise on cancer. A disease 17/11 claims was unknown wherever the four humours philosophy prevailed. Galen was one of the prime movers of the four humours theory. Failslam.
If you think I need to post evidence to counter his claims, then I would point you to the hundreds of thousands - nay, possibly millions - of medical research documents which are available to view in many different peer reviewed medical journals in print and on line. It is a cliche, but Google is your friend.
Do remember next time you have anything which needs antibiotics, if you trust 17th November you should refuse them as they conflict with the four humours theory.
Let me just put the final nail in his head with these statistics: in one week in 1665 in London, under the four humours medical establishment, 2 people died of scurvy. 121 died of dental abscesses. 5 died of thrush. 17 died of rickets. 15 died of worms.
In the last year, not a single person in London has died from any of those diseases. Scurvy is almost unknown and can be treated with a glass of orange juice. Dental abscesses are treated with antibiotics. Thrush is as common as ever but never ever fatal and always curable. Rickets is almost unknown in the western world now. You get my point.
Talk about flat earther kneejerk... 

Thork FTW!

 

You keep on telling yourself that.

Thank you for the ad hominem.

Care to point it out? I see nothing but pointing out failures in your argument.

He talks about how occultism and atheism have caused the spread of disease and you say he studies his stuff?

Quote from: Skeleton on December 07, 2010, 02:43:04 PM

Thank you for the ad hominem.

Care to point it out? I see nothing but pointing out failures in your argument.

Accusing me of having done less research than someone else, with no idea how much either of us has done, is nothing less than an insulting personal attack on me. It was even couched in tactless language.

He merely pointed out your lack of evidence in the OP. Maybe if you didn't post such "rubbish" you wouldn't make yourself a target of these alleged "personal attacks".

He merely pointed out your lack of evidence in the OP. Maybe if you didn't post such "rubbish" you wouldn't make yourself a target of these alleged "personal attacks".

He's right though. 17th November is writing crap. I read his thread - he frequently states completely untrue stuff as fact and just hopes nobody will do any background reading. Skeleton has him skewered with the laughable nonsense about cancer.

And yet another person attacks 17th November's writings without any evidence.

I agree with 17th November that modern medicine is garbage and is still in the dark ages.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=28085.0

I agree with 17th November that modern medicine is garbage and is still in the dark ages.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=28085.0

In that thread you show that you don't even know how cough medicine works so you shouldn't be speaking about medicines at all.

While I find 17November to be horribly wrong on many things, I do have to say that of the FEers, he's one of the least... aggressive and insulting.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 09, 2010, 02:21:20 PM

I agree with 17th November that modern medicine is garbage and is still in the dark ages.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=28085.0

In that thread you show that you don't even know how cough medicine works so you shouldn't be speaking about medicines at all.

The article says that cough medicine does not work.

And yet another person attacks 17th November's writings without any evidence.

Oh you want evidence? Let's break it down.

occultism and atheism have caused the widespread proliferation of terminal diseases and degenerative illnesses like cancer which were unknown whenever and wherever the four humors philosophy prevailed.

Six centuries after Hippocrates, the pagan doctor Galen also accepted the four humours.  The consensus of practitioners of traditional medicine is that Galen preserved the knowledge and practice of Hippocratic medicine.  Some students of medicine even contend that whereas Hippocrates provided the basis of true medicine, Galen constituted its pinnacle. 

Our friend Skeleton has already pointed out the contradiction between the first statement and the second, in that Galen himself wrote about cancer. 17th also presents no evidence that occultism and atheism cause cancer, even though he states that as fact.

The principle is the same as chemical agriculture which uses deadly poisons to fight bugs - a modern practice which previous generations found unnecessary.  Antibiotics are also poison.

They found it unnecessary because they didn't have the means to do it. As a result, their crop yields were lower, and crop failure would cause famine resulting in people ending up literally starving to death. Antibiotics are not "poison" except to bacteria. This is why they can cure you if you have an infection, though 17th clearly thinks they can't.

Louis Pasteur's germ theory is an example of modern medicine's misunderstanding of the body.

Here, 17th even presents a link to make this bold statement seem credible: unfortunately, this link is full of made up pseudoscience with no supporting evidence other than someone claiming they know better. It can be discarded. Given that Pasteur's germ theory enabled him to create vaccines for rabies and anthrax (which worked) and given that treatment of germ based disease today is hundreds of times more successful than the "cures" used in the days of the humours, I think we'll side with Pasteur on this one.

Modern diagnosis such as cellular diagnosis of disease such as used in a pap smear is inferior to virtually any branch of tradtional four humors medicine.  Modern medicine is simply garbage.

Cellular diagnosis of disease enables us to successfully treat diseases such as cancer, which was spectacularly incurable under any treatment method based on the four humours. Do you know anyone who has survived cancer? If it wasn't for cellular diagnosis and the modern medical approach, that person would be dead. Not might be dead: they would be. Modern medicine doesn't claim to cure everything, but given that every single treatment in western medicine has to undergo tests and trials to prove it works. If it didn't work then people would notice. And by people I mean doctors and so on, not crackpots like the rabble that inhabit this troll's nest.

Quote from: Beorn on December 09, 2010, 02:44:58 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 09, 2010, 02:21:20 PM

I agree with 17th November that modern medicine is garbage and is still in the dark ages.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=28085.0

In that thread you show that you don't even know how cough medicine works so you shouldn't be speaking about medicines at all.

The article says that cough medicine does not work.

Results: Six trials involving 438 children met all inclusion criteria. Antitussives, antihistamine–decongestant combinations, other fixed drug combinations, and antihistamines were no more effective than placebo in relieving symptoms of acute cough. Based on a single study, the mucolytic preparation letosteine was superior to placebo, with differences in cough scores ranging from 0.1 to 0.3 points from day 4 to day 10. Most drugs appeared to be well tolerated with a low incidence of mostly minor adverse effects.

Your article shows it doesn't work with children.

Then read a little bit more on the subject, for example :http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19874728.

Dextromethorphan (DM) for adults and honey for children provide some relief. DM may modestly decrease cough in adults compared with placebo.

And I would argue that honey is also a medicine. So there are cough medicines that work.

Then read a little bit more on the subject, for example :http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19874728.

Quote

Dextromethorphan (DM) for adults and honey for children provide some relief. DM may modestly decrease cough in adults compared with placebo.

And I would argue that honey is also a medicine. So there are cough medicines that work.

Honey isn't marketed as a cough medicine. And I am not doubting that prescription drugs such as some types of steroids may reduce coughing.

But the cough medicines which are marketed over the counter at pharmacies are a complete scams and do not work. The cough medicines sitting on the racks of your local K-Mart Pharmacy are ineffective scam products.

Likewise, many other drugs are complete scams, such as the drug Airborne, which claims to prevent and treat colds.

The FDA is completely and entirely inept at testing and approving medicines for distribution to the public. With billions of dollars in funding, and supposedly composed of the best doctors and chemists in America, it is absurd to the extreme that they cannot catch blatant scam products coming across their desks, peddled by snake oil salesmen looking to make a quick buck.

Quote from: Beorn on December 10, 2010, 11:13:52 AM

Then read a little bit more on the subject, for example :http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19874728.

Quote

Dextromethorphan (DM) for adults and honey for children provide some relief. DM may modestly decrease cough in adults compared with placebo.

And I would argue that honey is also a medicine. So there are cough medicines that work.

Honey isn't marketed as a cough medicine. And I am not doubting that DM and other prescription drugs such as some types of steroids may reduce coughing.

But the cough medicines which are marketed over the counter at pharmacies are a complete scams and do not work. The cough medicines sitting on the racks of your local K-Mart Pharmacy are ineffective scam products.

Likewise, many other drugs are complete scams, such as the drug Airborne, which claims to prevent and treat colds.

The FDA is completely and entirely inept at testing and approving medicines for distribution to the public. With billions of dollars in funding, and supposedly composed of the best doctors and chemists in America, it is absurd to the extreme that they cannot catch blatant scam products which come across their desks, peddled by snake oil salesmen looking to make a quick buck.

That they earn lots of money by selling placebos does not mean that medicine is still in the dark ages. Don't be ignorant.

That they earn lots of money by selling placebos does not mean that medicine is still in the dark ages.

Actually, it does. Over the counter cough medicine has been on the market for over a century and a half now, and it is only very recently that anyone has figured out that it's a scam.

Neither the FDA, USDH, the British Ministry of Agriculture Food and Fisheries, the British Dept. of Health, nor any doctor or physician in the industrialized or civilized world has managed to catch on to the fact that they were taking snake-oil to cure their and their children's coughs.

That's pretty pathetic.

See: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/01/cough_medicine.html

I wanted to note that Dextromethorphan is one of the Over-The-Counter scam drugs here. The article linked from Pubmed, purporting it as a working cough suppressant, is false.

Also, it's not only cough syrup. Cough drops are another scam product, ineffective for treating or suppressing coughs.

The whole bulk of civilized society is deluded by these medical scams. The problem isn't necessarily that there are billion dollar, multi-national corporation scamming people with sham products. That is to be expected of a for-profit corporation. The problem is that no one in the FDA or the medical community seems to have noticed, taking the claims on the product labels for granted, willing to pop anything which promises relief into their mouths. That's why medicine is still in the dark ages.

Doctors recommend products to patients based solely on claims on the package alone. Beta Blockers are supposed to prevent heart attacks, and doctors prescribe them out like candy, despite the fact that they are ineffective for reducing heart attacks and should actually be avoided as is has been shown that they occasionally cause heart failure. Our system of medicine is dangerously inept. The doctors, FDA, and pharmaceutical companies are all to blame for the primitive, faith-based nature of medicine.

I wanted to note that Dextromethorphan is one of the Over-The-Counter scam drugs here. The article linked from Pubmed, purporting it as a working cough suppressant, is false.

Also, it's not only cough syrup. Cough drops are another scam product, ineffective for treating or suppressing coughs.

The whole bulk of civilized society is deluded by these medical scams. The problem isn't necessarily that there are billion dollar, multi-national corporation scamming people with sham products. That is to be expected of a for-profit corporation. The problem is that no one in the FDA or the medical community seems to have noticed, taking the claims on the product labels for granted, willing to pop anything which promises relief into their mouths. That's why medicine is still in the dark ages.

Doctors recommend products to patients based solely on claims on the package alone. Beta Blockers are supposed to prevent heart attacks, and doctors prescribe them out like candy, despite the fact that they are ineffective for reducing heart attacks and should actually be avoided as is has been shown that they occasionally cause heart failure. Our system of medicine is dangerously inept. The doctors, FDA, and pharmaceutical companies are all to blame for the primitive, faith-based nature of medicine.

Regardless of the effect of the active ingredients of cough medicine, the placebo effect is proven. I suggest you look up some of the studies that have been done on quite how powerful the placebo effect can be. I'd also like you to describe how cough medicine used under the four humours system was more effective than the modern sort. Also please keep the FDA out of this as they only operate within the confines of the USA, not the rest of the western world, which is inclusive to this topic.

I would hazard a guess that 17November has done far more research than you on this subject. He always does. And that you probably know very little and have read even less.

I also notice your post has no evidence to counter his claims, nor provides any information whatsoever.

November 17 is in the 'FE Believers club' because he is an FET treasure. I am more of an FET trinket and so do not have this access, the same as you. And whilst it doesn't bother me, as I would have little to contribute in these matters, I am pleased they have a section such as this to post their findings, which I can read later. It is nice they can post somewhere without people disrupting their discussions with

Quote from: Skeleton on December 02, 2010, 07:20:57 AM

What total garbage. Feel free to pour scorn on this tripe.

So did you have a point to make?

Actually, 17November failed to provide any evidence and merely rambled in that quote.

So, no. The burden is on 17, Skeleton has every right to criticize.

[...] and atheism have caused the widespread proliferation of terminal diseases and degenerative illnesses like cancer

...and we're supposed to take this guy seriously?

Quote

[...] and atheism have caused the widespread proliferation of terminal diseases and degenerative illnesses like cancer

...and we're supposed to take this guy seriously?

Yes. Once someone is given posting rights in the Believer's section, everything they type is beyond criticism. Levee is the king of pushing this envelope as far as it will go, you should see some of the spectacular bullshit he gets away with.

I wanted to note that Dextromethorphan is one of the Over-The-Counter scam drugs here. The article linked from Pubmed, purporting it as a working cough suppressant, is false.

Also, it's not only cough syrup. Cough drops are another scam product, ineffective for treating or suppressing coughs.

The whole bulk of civilized society is deluded by these medical scams. The problem isn't necessarily that there are billion dollar, multi-national corporation scamming people with sham products. That is to be expected of a for-profit corporation. The problem is that no one in the FDA or the medical community seems to have noticed, taking the claims on the product labels for granted, willing to pop anything which promises relief into their mouths. That's why medicine is still in the dark ages.

I think that they do know, but that they get paid to subscribe them. That's how it works in the great American nation. I for one have never been subscribed a cough medicine (well, they tell you to drink tea and honey).
And you do know that in the dark ages a small flesh wound could kill someone, do you? And I wonder what you would choose for when you get a heart attack, the dark age "guess he's dead" tactic or the new age defibrillator. That is, if you wouldn't have died of the pox, tetanus, pertussis, polio, measles, mumps or many other children diseases that we now have vaccines for.

Quote from: Supertails on December 12, 2010, 09:11:14 AM

Quote

[...] and atheism have caused the widespread proliferation of terminal diseases and degenerative illnesses like cancer

...and we're supposed to take this guy seriously?

Yes. Once someone is given posting rights in the Believer's section, everything they type is beyond criticism. Levee is the king of pushing this envelope as far as it will go, you should see some of the spectacular bullshit he gets away with.

...I've been away quite a while, but I didn't realize it was this bad.

Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 12, 2010, 10:54:53 AM

Quote from: Supertails on December 12, 2010, 09:11:14 AM

Quote

[...] and atheism have caused the widespread proliferation of terminal diseases and degenerative illnesses like cancer

...and we're supposed to take this guy seriously?

Yes. Once someone is given posting rights in the Believer's section, everything they type is beyond criticism. Levee is the king of pushing this envelope as far as it will go, you should see some of the spectacular bullshit he gets away with.

...I've been away quite a while, but I didn't realize it was this bad.

Trust me, however bad you think it is, it's worse.

Well then, I guess from now on I'll be able to see first-hand, huh?  x_x

Though now I'm curious about this stuff levee gets away with that you mentioned.  Any linkage?

Quote from: Thermal Detonator on December 12, 2010, 10:54:53 AM

Quote from: Supertails on December 12, 2010, 09:11:14 AM

Quote

[...] and atheism have caused the widespread proliferation of terminal diseases and degenerative illnesses like cancer

...and we're supposed to take this guy seriously?

Yes. Once someone is given posting rights in the Believer's section, everything they type is beyond criticism. Levee is the king of pushing this envelope as far as it will go, you should see some of the spectacular bullshit he gets away with.

...I've been away quite a while, but I didn't realize it was this bad.

It's really hilarious when someone posts another round of inane rambling there and all you see are replies like: "astounding work, my brother, you are truly an inspiration to the cause!"