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Using only science can I figure out

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Using only science can I figure out
« on: November 22, 2010, 09:50:29 AM »
if a vase I have was a gift?
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Mykael

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2010, 10:21:43 AM »
Science can discover anything.
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Lorddave

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2010, 11:26:06 AM »
Yes it's called a receipt.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2010, 02:11:54 PM »
Quote from: Ichimaru Gin :] on November 22, 2010, 09:50:29 AM
if a vase I have was a gift?

  • Do you own it?
  • Did you buy it?
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James

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2010, 04:02:28 PM »
How can science possibly furnish us with an adequate account of the institution of ownership, which is a materially non-extant philosophical phenomenon? (This question is rhetorical. Science cannot furnish us with such an account.)
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Lorddave

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2010, 04:25:59 PM »
Quote from: James on November 25, 2010, 04:02:28 PM
How can science possibly furnish us with an adequate account of the institution of ownership, which is a materially non-extant philosophical phenomenon? (This question is rhetorical. Science cannot furnish us with such an account.)

Considering he is asking for the origin of ownership and not if he currently owns it I'd say you're off target James.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
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James

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2010, 04:29:46 PM »
How can any discussion which presupposes competence with the notion of ownership get by without furnishing an adequate account of that notion?
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gotham

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2010, 04:52:00 PM »
Maybe using a blend of Zetetic science and that Ocaam's razor business?  You could set the vase on a table, take a good look at it, and decide if you like it enough to purchase it. (even though you already own it, of course, but to re-address whether it is your style enough to purchase, etc)

« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 04:54:45 PM by gotham »
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Lorddave

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2010, 05:55:22 PM »
Quote from: James on November 25, 2010, 04:29:46 PM
How can any discussion which presupposes competence with the notion of ownership get by without furnishing an adequate account of that notion?
One does not need to define the concept of ownership when the owner is already known.
The only question is how the owner came to possess the object.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
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James

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2010, 09:28:00 AM »
What even is an owner?
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Lorddave

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2010, 01:13:50 PM »
Quote from: James on November 27, 2010, 09:28:00 AM
What even is an owner?

The person who has legal control and responsibility over an object and it's use.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.
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James

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2010, 06:53:50 PM »
What is responsibility?
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Lorddave

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2010, 11:06:32 PM »
Quote from: James on November 27, 2010, 06:53:50 PM
What is responsibility?

Look, if you need a dictionary the internet has plenty.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2010, 05:28:18 PM »
Quote from: Lorddave on November 27, 2010, 01:13:50 PM
The person who has legal control and responsibility over an object and it's use.


I think James is trying to make the point that the concepts like law, responsability and ownership are not scientifically determinable, except perhaps in a sense that robs them of all meaning.
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Benocrates

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2010, 01:28:50 PM »
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on November 28, 2010, 05:28:18 PM
Quote from: Lorddave on November 27, 2010, 01:13:50 PM
The person who has legal control and responsibility over an object and it's use.


I think James is trying to make the point that the concepts like law, responsability and ownership are not scientifically determinable, except perhaps in a sense that robs them of all meaning.

That is exactly what he is doing. I still am baffled by people who consider the dictionary (which one?) to be some kind of transcendental arbiter of meaning.
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Quote from: Parsifal on July 26, 2010, 04:39:24 PM
Get the fuck over it.
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Lorddave

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2010, 01:40:17 PM »
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on November 28, 2010, 05:28:18 PM
Quote from: Lorddave on November 27, 2010, 01:13:50 PM
The person who has legal control and responsibility over an object and it's use.


I think James is trying to make the point that the concepts like law, responsability and ownership are not scientifically determinable, except perhaps in a sense that robs them of all meaning.

If that's the case then why?
The OP is not asking about if he owns something but how he came to possess it.  The question can be broken down into a yes or no question:
"Did I get this vase as a gift?"
Yes/No.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.
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Benocrates

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2010, 01:58:01 PM »
the crux of the argument is the nature of a gift. I assume the OP is using the psychological nature of the giver (e.g. intent) to complicate the question.
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Quote from: Parsifal on July 26, 2010, 04:39:24 PM
Get the fuck over it.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2010, 07:41:16 PM »
Yeah, the use of the word gift is obviously not accidental. There's also a shift in tenses which may or may not have significance for the argument, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.
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Horatio

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2010, 03:53:08 AM »
Quote from: Ichimaru Gin :] on November 22, 2010, 09:50:29 AM
if a vase I have was a gift?

Please don't create these kind of threads in the upper forums.
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Quote from: James on March 07, 2011, 09:22:09 AM
How dare you have the audacity to demand my deposition. I've never even heard of you.
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Lorddave

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2010, 04:29:54 AM »
Quote from: Benocrates on November 29, 2010, 01:58:01 PM
the crux of the argument is the nature of a gift. I assume the OP is using the psychological nature of the giver (e.g. intent) to complicate the question.

Perhaps though it was oddly worded. 

Quote from: Benocrates on November 29, 2010, 01:58:01 PM
the crux of the argument is the nature of a gift. I assume the OP is using the psychological nature of the giver (e.g. intent) to complicate the question.
I don't think so.  For one, Ichi hasn't responded to this thread yet to clarify anything.
If I had to guess I'd say he was drunk when he wrote it.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.
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Benocrates

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2010, 08:32:27 AM »
I think it's a legitimate semantic argument, useful to discuss. But I probably would agree, it seems like he's buggered off and forgotten about it.
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Quote from: Parsifal on July 26, 2010, 04:39:24 PM
Get the fuck over it.
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Username

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2010, 11:51:56 PM »
Science can address social issues including ownership and it can do so in a meaningful way.
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Benocrates

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2010, 09:43:31 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on December 06, 2010, 11:51:56 PM
Science can address social issues including ownership and it can do so in a meaningful way.

meaningful in a technical way. Science can only describe who owns something, not who ought to own something.
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Quote from: Parsifal on July 26, 2010, 04:39:24 PM
Get the fuck over it.
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2010, 10:10:00 AM »
I haven't forgotten. I just like to see what others think.
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Quote from: James on August 26, 2011, 05:40:53 AM
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?
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Benocrates

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2010, 11:17:55 AM »
Quote from: Ichimaru Gin :] on December 07, 2010, 10:10:00 AM
I haven't forgotten. I just like to see what others think.

Well, I think this topic has run out of steam and requires an infusion of content.
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Quote from: Parsifal on July 26, 2010, 04:39:24 PM
Get the fuck over it.
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2010, 11:20:42 AM »
Quote from: Lorddave on November 30, 2010, 04:29:54 AM
If I had to guess I'd say he was drunk when he wrote it.
I have never had an alcoholic beverage. Never will.
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Quote from: James on August 26, 2011, 05:40:53 AM
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?
*

Lorddave

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2010, 11:52:15 AM »
Quote from: Ichimaru Gin :] on December 07, 2010, 11:20:42 AM
Quote from: Lorddave on November 30, 2010, 04:29:54 AM
If I had to guess I'd say he was drunk when he wrote it.
I have never had an alcoholic beverage. Never will.

Then you need to clarify why your grammar sucks in it.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.
*

Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2010, 07:16:41 PM »
Quote from: Lorddave on December 07, 2010, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: Ichimaru Gin :] on December 07, 2010, 11:20:42 AM
Quote from: Lorddave on November 30, 2010, 04:29:54 AM
If I had to guess I'd say he was drunk when he wrote it.
I have never had an alcoholic beverage. Never will.

Then you need to clarify why your grammar sucks in it.
What's wrong with the grammar?
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Quote from: James on August 26, 2011, 05:40:53 AM
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?
*

Lorddave

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2010, 11:26:51 AM »
...

Nothing.
I'm dyslexic and saw "using only science I can figure out" instead of "using only science can I figure out"

Ignore my previous babbling.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.
?

Dave

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Re: Using only science can I figure out
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2010, 07:54:16 AM »
Quote from: Ichimaru Gin :] on November 22, 2010, 09:50:29 AM
if a vase I have was a gift?
If it wasn't then you're gay.

Science: only gay people buy vases and actually keep them. Closet gays would claim this vase was a gift. I can assure you the empirical evidence supports this conclusion.
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"None of you know what science is. That is why you argue over the net." ~ Truthseeker2
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