Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design

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Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« on: November 14, 2010, 12:02:35 PM »
Interesting development recently in atheism (post from another user on another forum, pasted here with permission, note i don't hold any of the following views but this recent development is very interesting).

Its interesting that creationism/ID has been rejected from being taught in classrooms since it is considered ''religious''. Yet, a handful of atheists have come out in recent years and given support for intelligent design.



Atheists are now supporting intelligent design (and creationism)

You can be an atheist and be a supporter of intelligent design. Some atheists and agnostics can support and are supporting intelligent design. So what exactly do atheistic intelligent designers believe? Well most of them seem to believe the atheist intelligent design theories of John Gribbin “the multiverse theory” also known as the “designer multiverse theory”. Many scientists are currently supporting this theory including Martin Rees and Bernard Carr.

I have posted many links on the multiverse theory at the end of this article if you want to research this theory deeper.
One reviewer says very honestly “It seems to me that what Gribbin has done is undercut the entire case against teaching ID in public schools. If it's possible that the designer could be a being other than God then objections to ID based on its allegedly religious nature evaporate.”

Another type of atheistic intelligent design is the belief that humans have created life themselves. This theory has been supported by idealist philosophers for 1000s of years. If every object in the universe is created by human minds then this is indeed is a type of atheistic intelligent design. The philosophies of idealism and phenomenalism have both supported this theory. Physicists are now starting to embrace this theory.
Physicist John Wheeler once offered a suggestion: maybe we should approach cosmic fine-tuning not as a problem but as a clue. Perhaps it is evidence that we somehow endow the universe with certain features by the mere act of observation. It’s an idea that Stephen Hawking has been thinking about, too. Hawking advocates what he calls top-down cosmology, in which observers are creating the universe and its entire history right now. If we in some sense create the universe, it is not surprising that the universe is well suited to us.”
If you want to learn about the cosmic fine tuning theory have a look here:
http://www.discovery.org/a/91
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/teleol...#CosFinTun
You can be an atheist or a theist and support the cosmic fine tuning theory of intelligent design.
In the last couple of years a number of atheists have started to support intelligent design. Sorry to the militant atheists but it is true some atheists are supporting intelligent design. The one that will probably interest atheists the most is the work of John Gribbin with his atheistic multiverse theory which has already been mentioned and which we will discuss more on, Fred Hoyle and his panspermia theory, the Omega Point favored by Frank Tipler and Seth Lloyd also fit a similar role as does the fined turned universe of Paul Davies but these lead towards theism so probably would not, but the already mentioned Nick Bostrom's simulation hypothesis is supported by atheists. There are a couple of other theories mentioned in this article.
John Gribbin is an atheist who supports intelligent design. He supports the multitverse theory.
“This might sound far-fetched, but the startling thing about this theory is how likely it is to happen – and to have happened already. All that is required is that evolution occurs naturally in the multiverse until, in at least one universe, intelligence reaches roughly our level. From that seed point, intelligent designers create enough universes suitable for evolution, which bud off their own universes, that universes like our own (in other words, suitable for intelligent life) proliferate rapidly, with "unintelligent" universes coming to represent a tiny fraction of the whole multiverse. It therefore becomes overwhelmingly likely that any given universe, our own included, would be designed rather than "natural". – John Gribbin
“The argument over whether the universe has a creator, and who that might be, is among the oldest in human history. But amid the raging arguments between believers and sceptics, one possibility has been almost ignored – the idea that the universe around us was created by people very much like ourselves, using devices not too dissimilar to those available to scientists today. “John Gribbin
http://telicthoughts.com/intelligent-des...-friendly/
A couple of books by atheists have been published supporting intelligent design.
Read the book
Seeking God in Science: An Atheist Defends Intelligent Design" by Bradley Monton.
Bradley Monton is a strong atheist who has no intention of converting to any religion. He has written an atheistic intelligent design book. In his book he explains Intelligent Design is a valid form of philosophical and scientific inquiry that should be undertaken rather than dismissed.
So what are some of the other theories of atheistic intelligent design? How many are there? What are they exactly? This article explains some of them.
There is only one fact in the ID/evolution debate which has been proven. This fact is that both ID and evolution cannot be observed. Honest philosophers and scientists from both sides admit this, honest atheists even admit this. Only militant dogmatic fundamentalists from each side deny this. For every human being on earth evolution and ID cannot be directly observed the human (yes like you reading this) then has a choice does he/she believe a creation story from a holy book, does he/she follow some type of intelligent design (can be atheistic) or does he/she believe that evolution is true or does he try and mix them together?. All four of these choices are based on faith because they are not based on empirical observation. This thread explains the third out of the 4 which are types of intelligent design which as explained are atheistic. Theistic Intelligent Design will not be mentioned in this thread, there are already 1000s of articles, books and internet forum posts about this. Some types of atheistic intelligent design support evolution some do not. We will be looking at some of these theories but we will only discuss them briefly, you the reader he or she will have to make up your mind if you support any of these theories and if you wish to further research them, if you are an atheist you may feel shocked reading this, let’s hope you are blown out of your chair, the next time chap comes up to you and asks you do you believe in intelligent design you can say “yes I do and you know what I am an atheist aswell”.
On a sidenote:
Most atheistic evolutionists call themselves “sceptics”. If you are a sceptic then you will only believe in what you can observe yourself, the contradiction with a lot of atheists thesedays is that they put all their faith into a few textbooks on evolution when they themselves have never observed any of it so really this is no different than someone believing in what is in a holy book. It comes down to personal choice you either buy books supporting Intelligent Design and believe in it or you buy books on evolution and believe in it. The problem with some gullible and non sceptical (oooo the irony I thought evolutionists were meant to be skeptics) evolutionists would then say “but evolution has been observed on a small scale in a lab” ahhh but dear Mr. Evolutionist believer you were there were you? Nope. So what’s the difference between believing in the bible creation story, the hindu or Islamic creation stories or some type of ID or believing that some evolutionist chap in a bedroom laboratory has witnessed evolution? Nothing. There all elements of faith. You were not there to observe it. Besides Fact is no experiment in the world can prove macroevolution. Macroevolution can never be present. NOBODY CAN OBSERVE MACROEVOLUTION. It is a theory of the past, it cannot be directly observed in the present. Now you see there really is no difference between ID and evolution. Both of them are based on belief on faith, none of these theories can be directly observed especially not evolution with its belief that species take millions of years to evolve nobody has been around a million years to observe this. Nobody on this forum has observed evolution or intelligent design. They cannot be observed. If I walk outside my house now what do I see? Trees, grass, plants, soil, a river, the sun, animals, insects and a few houses. Where is the evolution? Where is the intelligent design? There is neither. All there is what IS. None of these things are evolving and none of these things can can be proven to of been intelligently designed because we were not there to observe the designing. The question is not present, the question has to go back in the past, you then have a choice, did any of these things evolve over long periods of time like evolutionists claim or were they intelligently designed? Remember Science is knowledge from observation. We cannot observe evolution or something being intelligently designed so we are now into philosophical theories of existence. You are now down to a choice, a belief, so were all these things that you see in everyday life intelligent designed or did they evolve over long periods of time? Which one is right and which one is wrong? Most views of reality are variations of these two basic views. There is no conclusive way to decide between them. There is no experiment that can be performed to decide whether reality is formed by intelligent design or by evolution. Ultimately the test is in the explanatory power of either view: whichever one best explains the empirical phenomena of reality is the one more likely to be true. The individual has to think his way to the truth. There are supporters on both sides.
But what is very rarely mentioned is atheistic intelligent design.
To sum it up in short yes you can be an atheist or an agnostic and believe in intelligent design look at the examples already listed.
Fred Hoyle was a very strong atheist who embraced intelligent design he has been labelled “an atheist for ID”. He rejected the Big Bang theory and supported the steady state theory. Hoyle was an atheist but disbelieved in Darwinism. He was a supporter of panspermia that life was seeded from elsewhere in the universe. His work was continued by one of his students Chandra Wickramasinghe who was also an atheist. Both of these chaps do not believe in anything “supernatural” they were two atheists who supported intelligent design. I suggest buying some of their books if you wish to understand some of their theories.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/intellige...st-for-id/
Charles Bernard Renouvier was a french philosopher influenced by Immanuel Kant. He was a creationist but he leaned towards atheism. So we have an atheistic creationist? Yes it is possible.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel the idealist philosopher rejected evolution.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/intellige...f-species/
What is there latest book out?
Intelligent Design - Message from the Designers
In “Message from the Designers”, Rael presents us with the vast amount of information that he received during his UFO encounters in 1973 - a third option: all life on earth having been created.”
Talking about aliens why is it that nearly all ufologists have been atheists? Why is it mainly atheists who read books about aliens? Why were nearly all of the ancient astronaut theorist’s atheists? Yes that’s right writers like Erich von Däniken, Peter Kolosimo who believed life on earth was seeded by aliens were atheists and wait who else? Carl Sagan? What? Isn’t Carl Sagan the chap who went round calling paranormal believers crackpots? But he publishes a book in 1966 with Iosif Shklovsky called “intelligent life in the universe” where he says aliens could have seeded life on earth?
Why does Giordano Bruno’s name now get associated with evolution when he supported intelligent design? He was one of the very early on ufologists. Yes that is right. He believed in an infinite universe and believed in aliens. Not only that but he believed in the Adam and eve story as literally true but he was an atheistic/pantheist. He believed there was an infinite amount of Adams and Eves.
What did he say?
“"I can imagine an infinite number of worlds like the earth, with a Garden of Eden on each one. In all these Gardens of Eden, half the Adams and Eves will not eat the fruit of knowledge, but half will. But half of infinity is infinity, so an infinite number of worlds will fall from grace and there will be an infinite number of crucifixions. Therefore, either there is one unique Jesus who goes from one world to another, or there are an infinite number of Jesuses. Since a single Jesus visiting an infinite number of earths one at a time would take an infinite amount of time, there must be an infinite number of Jesuses. Therefore, God must create an infinite number of Christs."

Notice the words on the end “God must create”(Please note Bruno had a very different view on what God was go and read some of his works if you wish to understand this). Giordano Bruno who has been described as an “atheistic pantheist” but he supported intelligent design very much like Spinoza another atheistic pantheist who modern day atheists mistakenly claim supported evolution.
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Lorddave

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2010, 12:37:14 PM »
I love how you define all atheists by one single person. 
I shall now define all creationists under one single person. 
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Trekky0623

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2010, 01:06:12 PM »
I love how you define all atheists by one single person. 
I shall now define all creationists under one single person. 

Cassiterides is the embodiment of the popular media.

One atheist believes that life may have been non-natural, and suddenly:
"ATHEISTS NOW BELIEVING IN INTELLIGENT DESIGN. MORE AT ELEVEN."


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Lorddave

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2010, 01:08:46 PM »
I love how you define all atheists by one single person. 
I shall now define all creationists under one single person. 

Cassiterides is the embodiment of the popular media.

One atheist believes that life may have been non-natural, and suddenly:
"ATHEISTS NOW BELIEVING IN INTELLIGENT DESIGN. MORE AT ELEVEN."


I'm smiling because I'm crying on the inside.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2010, 01:19:47 PM »
Seems like there's a lot of inference coming from those sources.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2010, 01:55:02 PM »
This just in: Creationists are now skeptical of God

A dude on facebook changed his religious status.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Crustinator

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2010, 02:16:23 PM »
You can be an atheist and be a supporter of intelligent design.

No not really.

The rest of your post is just copypasta.

Here's the deal; if you can't be arsed to type I can't be arsed to read.

Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2010, 03:46:40 PM »
You can be an atheist and be a supporter of intelligent design.

No not really.

The rest of your post is just copypasta.

Here's the deal; if you can't be arsed to type I can't be arsed to read.

Upsets you militant types doesn't it?
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2010, 04:03:55 PM »
he supported intelligent design very much like Spinoza another atheistic pantheist


Spinoza was not a pantheist, nevermind an atheist.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Raist

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2010, 01:41:02 AM »
I'd like to first of all make a perhaps bold claim. Ufologists are not atheists. They believe in aliens like clocktower believes in god.

All you've shown is that a new sect of theists are taking up the "intelligent design" flag.

I stopped reading at that point because I really realized it is pointless.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2010, 04:01:34 AM »
Who cares if an atheist accepts ID? Nobody claimed that religion had a monopoly on stupid.

I have a friend who claims to believe in Freedom of Speech and then declares Muslims who say bad things about the UK should be executed. Can I therefore say that FoS is compatable with executing others because of what they've said?

 

Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2010, 04:06:31 AM »
This is of course the exception, not the rule. Statistics show that there is a correlation between education and belief in God. It appears that as education level rises, belief in God decreases.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 04:08:40 AM by Keldarion Typrax »
The chains of habit are too weak to be felt until they are too strong to be broken. -Samuel Johnson

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Wendy

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2010, 04:27:20 AM »
I'd like to first of all make a perhaps bold claim. Ufologists are not atheists. They believe in aliens like clocktower believes in god.

All you've shown is that a new sect of theists are taking up the "intelligent design" flag.

I stopped reading at that point because I really realized it is pointless.

I disagree. Ufologists may or may not be atheists, but the aliens of which they speak are, in most cases, not gods. Therefore, they are atheists. They still form their opinions based on belief, though.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Lorddave

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2010, 04:27:59 AM »
This is of course the exception, not the rule. Statistics show that there is a correlation between education and belief in God. It appears that as education level rises, belief in God decreases.

There is also an odd correlation between acceptance of other ideas and population density.  As population density decreases, acceptance of other ideas within those populations, decreases.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2010, 04:56:35 AM »
Who cares if an atheist accepts ID?

ID/Creationism for several years has been rejected to be taught in classrooms on the grounds it is 'religious'. Yet in the last few years, several atheists and non-religious scientists have come out and are now saying they believe in ID or a form of creationism. This means it will finally gain acceptance in classrooms, i can see this happening in the next 5 or 10 years.

Those that are annoyed by this are only the militant atheist neo-darwinist crank types. Several of these cranks post on this forum, these are people who would reject God or a creator etc even if this was proven to be true. Militant atheists do not believe in atheism because of the evidence, they choose atheism because of personal reasons - usually because they have poor morality.
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Raist

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2010, 05:36:48 AM »
I'd like to first of all make a perhaps bold claim. Ufologists are not atheists. They believe in aliens like clocktower believes in god.

All you've shown is that a new sect of theists are taking up the "intelligent design" flag.

I stopped reading at that point because I really realized it is pointless.

I disagree. Ufologists may or may not be atheists, but the aliens of which they speak are, in most cases, not gods. Therefore, they are atheists. They still form their opinions based on belief, though.

I was using theism in a metaphorical sense. They are using a "higher power" to explain things in life, and then they claim phenomena are impossible and instantly use this higher power to explain it. The logic is so similar to a theist I am claiming they are one.

I should have been more precise in my meaning though.

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Raist

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2010, 05:41:48 AM »
Who cares if an atheist accepts ID?

ID/Creationism for several years has been rejected to be taught in classrooms on the grounds it is 'religious'. Yet in the last few years, several atheists and non-religious scientists have come out and are now saying they believe in ID or a form of creationism. This means it will finally gain acceptance in classrooms, i can see this happening in the next 5 or 10 years.

Those that are annoyed by this are only the militant atheist neo-darwinist crank types. Several of these cranks post on this forum, these are people who would reject God or a creator etc even if this was proven to be true. Militant atheists do not believe in atheism because of the evidence, they choose atheism because of personal reasons - usually because they have poor morality.

The problem with ID is it is a copout theory. It in no way refutes evolution, it simply says abiogenesis is impossible. It then makes the ridiculous claim that something helped make us without any proof of said creation by using an appeal to ignorance. "I don't know how something that complicated could be made on accident" is not a valid critique of any theory and it certainly doesn't prove that something therefore did it on purpose.

For the people that believe aliens created us, how did the aliens originate? If we are too complicated to arise spontaneously, then did the aliens create a life form much more complicated than themselves? They obviously had to arise somehow. This theory leads to an infinite string of aliens being intelligently designed.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2010, 06:37:54 AM »
If life were designed then iot is arguably the least efficiently designed process ever. 99% of all species which have ever lived are now exctinct,our eyes are in upside-down, our brain has to make sense of jumbled nerves, stray radiation buggers up the body and starts it growing cancerous lumps; our bodies are so innefficient at processing energy that we need to consume massive amaounts just to keep going

The universe itself is so shoddily designed that more than 99% of the sun's energy is wasted, we can only survive on one tiny slither of rock which regularly wipes thousands of us out, our reproductive cycles are so imbalanced that billions of potential lives are obliterated every day. The stars have been put so far away that evacuation to another planet seems fanciful at best, entropy means that even if we achieve the impossible and escape our home-star before it dies, the stars themselves will eventually die.

ID proponents often claim that DNA is the creator's code. Well, I hope that buried somewhere in our junk DNA is the receipt for this universe so we can send it back...

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2010, 09:27:23 AM »
ID/Creationism for several years has been rejected to be taught in classrooms on the grounds it is 'religious'. Yet in the last few years, several atheists and non-religious scientists have come out and are now saying they believe in ID or a form of creationism. This means it will finally gain acceptance in classrooms, i can see this happening in the next 5 or 10 years.
Intelligent design is mutually exclusive with atheism. Simply put, any atheists who become creationists are no longer atheists.

If you want to expand intelligent design to include aliens (in addition to deities), it presents itself with a extension of the same problem while adding several large assumptions.

Furthermore, popular support is not the mechanism for determining curriculum.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Trekky0623

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2010, 09:29:41 AM »
Furthermore, popular support is not the mechanism for determining curriculum.

This.

Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2010, 09:30:39 AM »

The rest of your post is just copypasta.
Here's the deal; if you can't be arsed to type I can't be arsed to read.
Excellent!
The put down of the year.

Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2010, 10:05:16 AM »
ID/Creationism for several years has been rejected to be taught in classrooms on the grounds it is 'religious'. Yet in the last few years, several atheists and non-religious scientists have come out and are now saying they believe in ID or a form of creationism. This means it will finally gain acceptance in classrooms, i can see this happening in the next 5 or 10 years.
Intelligent design is mutually exclusive with atheism. Simply put, any atheists who become creationists are no longer atheists.

If you want to expand intelligent design to include aliens (in addition to deities), it presents itself with a extension of the same problem while adding several large assumptions.

Furthermore, popular support is not the mechanism for determining curriculum.

Most atheists who support ID don't believe in aliens, they believe in the multiverse or 'simulation' theory. These theories state that man created himself, or that we existed in our current form from the beginning of time - so no evolution. This is precisely why ID/creationism can no longer be banned from schools, since some atheists now support it, not only theists.
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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2010, 10:17:22 AM »
It doesn't sound to me like he doesn't accept evolution (this is from your opening quote):

Quote
John Gribbin is an atheist who supports intelligent design. He supports the multitverse theory.
“This might sound far-fetched, but the startling thing about this theory is how likely it is to happen – and to have happened already. All that is required is that evolution occurs naturally in the multiverse until, in at least one universe, intelligence reaches roughly our level. From that seed point, intelligent designers create enough universes suitable for evolution, which bud off their own universes, that universes like our own (in other words, suitable for intelligent life) proliferate rapidly, with "unintelligent" universes coming to represent a tiny fraction of the whole multiverse. It therefore becomes overwhelmingly likely that any given universe, our own included, would be designed rather than "natural". – John Gribbin

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2010, 10:30:26 AM »
You are right, Cass loses. This theory requires evolution.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2010, 01:11:54 PM »
Most atheists who support ID don't believe in aliens, they believe in the multiverse or 'simulation' theory. These theories state that man created himself, or that we existed in our current form from the beginning of time - so no evolution. This is precisely why ID/creationism can no longer be banned from schools, since some atheists now support it, not only theists.
How did you infer man created himself from the multiverse theory?
Neither of those seem to imply an intelligent designer.

I will also say this again, support of atheists or creationists doesn't matter. The public is not in charge of what gets taught in public schools.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 01:18:54 PM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Raist

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2010, 01:39:47 PM »
ID/Creationism for several years has been rejected to be taught in classrooms on the grounds it is 'religious'. Yet in the last few years, several atheists and non-religious scientists have come out and are now saying they believe in ID or a form of creationism. This means it will finally gain acceptance in classrooms, i can see this happening in the next 5 or 10 years.
Intelligent design is mutually exclusive with atheism. Simply put, any atheists who become creationists are no longer atheists.

If you want to expand intelligent design to include aliens (in addition to deities), it presents itself with a extension of the same problem while adding several large assumptions.

Furthermore, popular support is not the mechanism for determining curriculum.

Most atheists who support ID don't believe in aliens, they believe in the multiverse or 'simulation' theory. These theories state that man created himself, or that we existed in our current form from the beginning of time - so no evolution. This is precisely why ID/creationism can no longer be banned from schools, since some atheists now support it, not only theists.

They believe man evolving is impossible but they believe there would be a universe where he simply already exists?

One of those is much more unlikely to happen, and it's the one where all the working parts need to be aligned perfectly at the exact moment.

Do you know the old creationist argument of a tornado in a junkyard making a boeing? This is more like a tornado in  bare dirt making a tank.

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Wendy

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2010, 12:31:49 AM »
Who cares if an atheist accepts ID?

ID/Creationism for several years has been rejected to be taught in classrooms on the grounds it is 'religious'. Yet in the last few years, several atheists and non-religious scientists have come out and are now saying they believe in ID or a form of creationism. This means it will finally gain acceptance in classrooms, i can see this happening in the next 5 or 10 years.

Those that are annoyed by this are only the militant atheist neo-darwinist crank types. Several of these cranks post on this forum, these are people who would reject God or a creator etc even if this was proven to be true. Militant atheists do not believe in atheism because of the evidence, they choose atheism because of personal reasons - usually because they have poor morality.

Ufologists are religious, fucknut. Anyone who believes that an intelligent designer came down here and made us in our current form, in spite of all the evidence stacked against that, is religious. Using panspermia or genetic research from alien civilizations to explain the origin of life on Earth just begs the question of where they came from. Also, great work on the argumentum ad hominem there. Really helps your argument go that extra mile.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 12:39:39 AM by Wendy »
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Wendy

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2010, 12:41:33 AM »
ID/Creationism for several years has been rejected to be taught in classrooms on the grounds it is 'religious'. Yet in the last few years, several atheists and non-religious scientists have come out and are now saying they believe in ID or a form of creationism. This means it will finally gain acceptance in classrooms, i can see this happening in the next 5 or 10 years.
Intelligent design is mutually exclusive with atheism. Simply put, any atheists who become creationists are no longer atheists.

If you want to expand intelligent design to include aliens (in addition to deities), it presents itself with a extension of the same problem while adding several large assumptions.

Furthermore, popular support is not the mechanism for determining curriculum.

Most atheists who support ID don't believe in aliens, they believe in the multiverse or 'simulation' theory. These theories state that man created himself, or that we existed in our current form from the beginning of time - so no evolution. This is precisely why ID/creationism can no longer be banned from schools, since some atheists now support it, not only theists.

They believe man evolving is impossible but they believe there would be a universe where he simply already exists?

One of those is much more unlikely to happen, and it's the one where all the working parts need to be aligned perfectly at the exact moment.

Do you know the old creationist argument of a tornado in a junkyard making a boeing? This is more like a tornado in  bare dirt making a tank.

More like an electron microscope.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2010, 01:24:09 AM »
More like the large hadron collider.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Wendy

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Re: Atheists now believing in Intelligent Design
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2010, 01:26:49 AM »
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.