Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round

  • 137 Replies
  • 14519 Views
*

Ski

  • Planar Moderator
  • 8730
  • Homines, dum docent, dispenguin.
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #90 on: November 02, 2010, 08:52:11 PM »
More information from the site:

http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/blackprior/zhou/zhou-3.pdf

It's a treasure trove of Allais information:

Pendulums were set up in various countries, with some in the path of the eclipse and others not. Some of the preliminary results are interesting.

Video cameras taped the pendulum movements before, during and after the solar eclipse. Although no change was viewed in the pendulums outside of the eclipse path, two different sites in Europe revealed exciting results. These researchers, which were inside the path of the eclipse, discovered a change in the pendulum's path. If the results are correct, then another mystery was just created. Why would gravity change only in the areas under the eclipse' path?

"We haven't looked at their videos in detail yet, and we're not going to reach any conclusions just by eyeballing them," says Koczor, who's trying to organize the mountains of data. "If, in fact, pendulums go crazy during eclipses it suggests we don't really have an understanding of gravity and the intersection of different bodies."

Koczor says much of the data still needs to be analyzed, but the current results have stumped the scientific community. 
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #91 on: November 02, 2010, 09:42:10 PM »
More information from the site:

http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/blackprior/zhou/zhou-3.pdf

It's a treasure trove of Allais information:

Pendulums were set up in various countries, with some in the path of the eclipse and others not. Some of the preliminary results are interesting.

Video cameras taped the pendulum movements before, during and after the solar eclipse. Although no change was viewed in the pendulums outside of the eclipse path, two different sites in Europe revealed exciting results. These researchers, which were inside the path of the eclipse, discovered a change in the pendulum's path. If the results are correct, then another mystery was just created. Why would gravity change only in the areas under the eclipse' path?

"We haven't looked at their videos in detail yet, and we're not going to reach any conclusions just by eyeballing them," says Koczor, who's trying to organize the mountains of data. "If, in fact, pendulums go crazy during eclipses it suggests we don't really have an understanding of gravity and the intersection of different bodies."

Koczor says much of the data still needs to be analyzed, but the current results have stumped the scientific community. 

<yawn>
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17732
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #92 on: November 02, 2010, 10:14:18 PM »
the current results have stumped the scientific community

Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #93 on: November 02, 2010, 10:26:46 PM »
the current results have stumped the scientific community

So? Did you forget that applying the Scientific Method a scientist doesn't mind getting stumped? But the Scientific Community treats as a crackpot anyone who fails to get verifiable objective evidence before making conclusions.

For example, I didn't take your claim that you saw people playing Frisbee across Monterey Bay with your magical telescope as anything more than a lie since no one could reproduce it.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

?

zork

  • 3319
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #94 on: November 03, 2010, 12:48:25 AM »
More information from the site:

http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/blackprior/zhou/zhou-3.pdf

It's a treasure trove of Allais information:

Pendulums were set up in various countries, with some in the path of the eclipse and others not. Some of the preliminary results are interesting.

Video cameras taped the pendulum movements before, during and after the solar eclipse. Although no change was viewed in the pendulums outside of the eclipse path, two different sites in Europe revealed exciting results. These researchers, which were inside the path of the eclipse, discovered a change in the pendulum's path. If the results are correct, then another mystery was just created. Why would gravity change only in the areas under the eclipse' path?

"We haven't looked at their videos in detail yet, and we're not going to reach any conclusions just by eyeballing them," says Koczor, who's trying to organize the mountains of data. "If, in fact, pendulums go crazy during eclipses it suggests we don't really have an understanding of gravity and the intersection of different bodies."

Koczor says much of the data still needs to be analyzed, but the current results have stumped the scientific community. 

And what the conclusion is? Only that something during the eclipse affects the pendulum. We don't know what and it absolutely doesn't tell us that the earth isn't rotating. You can go on and on about that effect but the fact is that it doesn't disprove the rotating Earth.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

*

Lord Wilmore

  • Vice President
  • Administrator
  • 12106
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #95 on: November 03, 2010, 06:40:46 AM »
What we know is that the RET is full of anomolies and inconsistencies, however high & mighty its advocates behave.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

?

zork

  • 3319
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #96 on: November 03, 2010, 07:12:56 AM »
What we know is that the RET is full of anomolies and inconsistencies, however high & mighty its advocates behave.
 Who has ever claimed that its perfect and we know absolutely all about it? But with its anomalies and inconsistencies it at least has a map and the working model. Which as we all know the FET is never going to get.

 EDIT: As for the Coriolis force/effect let's not make it about the Earth shape for a moment.  Coriolis force is there, its a fact. Instead of bitching about it wouldn't it be better if the FE side incorporates it in its models and tries to explain it.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 07:46:01 AM by zork »
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

?

General Disarray

  • Official Member
  • 5039
  • Magic specialist
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #97 on: November 03, 2010, 08:12:33 AM »
What we know is that the RET is full of anomolies and inconsistencies, however high & mighty its advocates behave.

However no one has shown that those "anomolies" and inconsistencies conclusively indicate that the earth is flat.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 41788
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #98 on: November 03, 2010, 11:40:36 AM »
What we know is that the RET is full of anomolies and inconsistencies, however high & mighty its advocates behave.

At least RET has a reasonable and consistent model for sunrises and sunsets.  Let me know when FET decides once and for all if it's because of bendy light, aetherific edification or a creative interpretation of perspective.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Lord Wilmore

  • Vice President
  • Administrator
  • 12106
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #99 on: November 03, 2010, 12:46:11 PM »
At least RET has a reasonable and consistent model for sunrises and sunsets.  Let me know when FET decides once and for all if it's because of bendy light, aetherific edification or a creative interpretation of perspective.


This thread is not about how FET is no more divided than RET. It is about the Coriolis force, and everyone here seems to be of the view that the RET explanation is full of anomolies. I therefore submit that the RE explanation is probably wrong, and at least incomplete (as RE'ers have admitted). You guys should therefore stop bringing it up like it's some kind of RE sucess story.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 41788
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #100 on: November 03, 2010, 12:55:18 PM »
It is about the Coriolis force, and everyone here seems to be of the view that the RET explanation is full of anomolies.

Full of anomalies?  Other than the eclipse anomaly, what other anomalies is the Coriolis Force full of?

I therefore submit that the RE explanation is probably wrong, and at least incomplete (as RE'ers have admitted).

There is a difference between wrong and incomplete.

You guys should therefore stop bringing it up like it's some kind of RE sucess story.

Does FET have a better and/or more complete explanation for the observed effects attributed to the Coriolis Force?  If not, then, regardless of it's inconsistencies, the RET explanation remains more successful than the FET explanation.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

zork

  • 3319
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #101 on: November 03, 2010, 02:23:29 PM »
This thread is not about how FET is no more divided than RET. It is about the Coriolis force, and everyone here seems to be of the view that the RET explanation is full of anomolies.

 I'm with markjo. What anomalies? And where did your spell checker go, it's the second time you write "anomolies"

I therefore submit that the RE explanation is probably wrong, and at least incomplete (as RE'ers have admitted). You guys should therefore stop bringing it up like it's some kind of RE sucess story.
  It is well explained and quite certainly not wrong. About incomplete part I don't get it. You are kind of overly vague and don't bring anything specific out. Just "it is wrong. incomplete, full of anomalies". What is wrong? What is missing? What anomalies?
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

*

Lord Wilmore

  • Vice President
  • Administrator
  • 12106
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #102 on: November 03, 2010, 02:48:20 PM »
And where did your spell checker go, it's the second time you write "anomolies"


it's the second time you write "anomolies"


 ::)


It is well explained and quite certainly not wrong. About incomplete part I don't get it . . . What is wrong? What is missing? What anomalies?


Uh...


Who has ever claimed that its perfect and we know absolutely all about it? But with its anomalies and inconsistencies


You know, remembering a post you wrote earlier today is not a lot to ask. You either agree with the first post and disagree with the second, or vice-versa. A little consistency would be nice.


Ski has presented evidence, and I haven't seen a single one of you offer any substantive criticism of his sources or their work. These are RE scientists, working for RET, and yet you're all just sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending nothing has happened. Nobody has presented evidence of the coriolis effect in this thread. What has been presented is evidence that there are serious anomalies in the RET explanation.


Given that this topic was supposed to be a demonstration of the Earth's sphericity, I'd say this is another win for FE.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

?

zork

  • 3319
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #103 on: November 03, 2010, 03:14:33 PM »
it's the second time you write "anomolies"

 ::)

 Give me a break, spell checker won't correct these kind of mistakes.


It is well explained and quite certainly not wrong. About incomplete part I don't get it . . . What is wrong? What is missing? What anomalies?

Uh...

Who has ever claimed that its perfect and we know absolutely all about it? But with its anomalies and inconsistencies

You know, remembering a post you wrote earlier today is not a lot to ask. You either agree with the first post and disagree with the second, or vice-versa. A little consistency would be nice.
The last one was in context of the RE as whole. The first one is about the Coriolis force. Don't take two different things, put them together and ask for consistence.


Ski has presented evidence, and I haven't seen a single one of you offer any substantive criticism of his sources or their work.
These are RE scientists, working for RET, and yet you're all just sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending nothing has happened. Nobody has presented evidence of the coriolis effect in this thread. What has been presented is evidence that there are serious anomalies in the RET explanation.
I see, you play the Ski card. Anyone isn't sticking their fingers to ears. Ski just pointed out that there is anomaly in specific case. What about it? Does that makes the Coriolis effect go away? Disproves it? Proves that the Earth doesn't rotate? No. It is just one anomaly in specific situation. And that isn't what your claim was. You claimed that Coriolis force explanation is full of anomalies, it is probably wrong and at least incomplete. I ask again - What is wrong? What is missing? What anomalies?
 And evidence about Coriolis effect was presented.
 http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0325551/zeugs/WirbelInDerBadewanne.pdf
 http://web.mit.edu/hml/ncfmf.html - Vorticity, Part 1

 Wikipedia also describes experiment at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force#Draining_in_bathtubs_and_toilets
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

?

Thork

Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #104 on: November 03, 2010, 03:23:49 PM »
buy an airplane. Fly it in a straight line directly to any location in the mid latitudes. You will not reach your destination if a straight path is taken. Try it yourself, either get a pilots license or make friends with a pilot, and do it. you will not reach your destination if you take a straight line course because the earth will continue rotating as you fly above it, this will result in your course being shifted to the right in the N. Hemisphere, which will be easily identifiable when you partake in this hands on proof of the Coriolis effect.

I haven't been following this thread for a few days but this caught my eye. The earth will not move under you. You do not need to adjust for Coriolis. If the earth were round and rotating, the air around the earth moves with it. This argument is akin to saying get into a helicopter and hover for a few hours. You will not land near where you took off as the earth spins. It is also if you think about it, like saying flying east will be quicker than flying west because the ground moves under you, but you fly through air, a medium and that moves with you. When flying you are in a body of air as a stick is in the stream. If earth spins it takes the air with it. And that being so, you move with it. I will tell you now, pilots do not compensate for Coriolis in aircraft.
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080101173751AAAXMck
The best answer isn't actually the best answer, as he doesn't nail the question directly. The second answer is the best. Note the username.

Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #105 on: November 03, 2010, 03:45:41 PM »
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080101173751AAAXMck
The best answer isn't actually the best answer, as he doesn't nail the question directly. The second answer is the best. Note the username.
Excellent source. Let's agree that this guy is right. He said:

Quote
If the Earth is rotating (which it is), ...
/FES

Thanks!
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

?

vhu9644

  • 1011
  • Round earth supporter
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #106 on: November 03, 2010, 08:45:11 PM »
if i remember correctly, airplanes adjust for the winds.  not all are caused by the coreolis effect
people i respect: Ski, Oracle, PizzaPlanet, Wendy

*

EnglshGentleman

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 9548
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #107 on: November 03, 2010, 09:37:07 PM »
Try it yourself, either get a pilots license or make friends with a pilot, and do it. you will not reach your destination if you take a straight line course because the earth will continue rotating as you fly above it

This means that if I get a hot air ballon and hover I will end up going around world in 24 hrs!  YAY!!!!

Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #108 on: November 03, 2010, 09:42:20 PM »
Try it yourself, either get a pilots license or make friends with a pilot, and do it. you will not reach your destination if you take a straight line course because the earth will continue rotating as you fly above it

This means that if I get a hot air ballon and hover I will end up going around world in 24 hrs!  YAY!!!!
non sequitur. You'll note Averti said to take a straight line course.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

*

Ski

  • Planar Moderator
  • 8730
  • Homines, dum docent, dispenguin.
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #109 on: November 04, 2010, 04:39:36 PM »
I see, you play the Ski card. Anyone isn't sticking their fingers to ears. Ski just pointed out that there is anomaly in specific case. What about it? Does that makes the Coriolis effect go away? Disproves it? Proves that the Earth doesn't rotate? No.

It shows that the heavens clearly influence the pendulums. Which is categorically denied or inexplicable by mainstream RE science, yet is the very thing FET affirms in it's explanation of the Coriolis effect.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

?

zork

  • 3319
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #110 on: November 04, 2010, 05:25:37 PM »
I see, you play the Ski card. Anyone isn't sticking their fingers to ears. Ski just pointed out that there is anomaly in specific case. What about it? Does that makes the Coriolis effect go away? Disproves it? Proves that the Earth doesn't rotate? No.

It shows that the heavens clearly influence the pendulums. Which is categorically denied or inexplicable by mainstream RE science, yet is the very thing FET affirms in it's explanation of the Coriolis effect.
How does it show that heavens influence the pendulum? Pendulum works most of the time fine under the heavens. It only shows that something(no one knows yet what) has some influence on the pendulum during the eclipse. And nobody denies it and FET has nothing to do with it. FET doesn't even explain the Coriolis force. Also the effect was discovered by RE scientists.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

*

Ski

  • Planar Moderator
  • 8730
  • Homines, dum docent, dispenguin.
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #111 on: November 04, 2010, 08:01:59 PM »
If the heavens do not affect the pendulum, why is there such an anomaly? Of course the pendulum works under the heavens. The rotation of the heavens are what cause the rotation of pendulum and the coriolis effect.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

?

General Disarray

  • Official Member
  • 5039
  • Magic specialist
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #112 on: November 04, 2010, 08:23:18 PM »
I see you are confusing "is entirely responsible for" with "has an effect on".
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

  • Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
  • The Elder Ones
  • 27043
  • I'm the boss.
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #113 on: November 04, 2010, 08:24:25 PM »
Or, their movements could be related without either in any way being the cause of the other.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

?

zork

  • 3319
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #114 on: November 05, 2010, 02:24:06 AM »
If the heavens do not affect the pendulum, why is there such an anomaly? Of course the pendulum works under the heavens. The rotation of the heavens are what cause the rotation of pendulum and the coriolis effect.
You are now talking about FE model. Your "heavens" (whatever it is) may be the cause there but the anomaly is no way to say something decisively about the shape of the Earth. In RE the Coriolis force is because of rotation and the anomaly is because of something unknown. In FE the Coriolis force is because of "heavens"  :-\ and thereby the eclipse can have some effect on the pendulum but the cause is also unknown. In conclusion there is nothing which indicates the shape of the Earth.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #115 on: November 05, 2010, 06:11:28 AM »
If the heavens do not affect the pendulum, why is there such an anomaly? Of course the pendulum works under the heavens. The rotation of the heavens are what cause the rotation of pendulum and the coriolis effect.
What force causes this rotation? Gravity? The mass of the FP is affected by gravity?

Why does the FP rotate in the opposite direction south of the Equator and sweep out an arc predicted by physics under the RE's rotation? Can FE make a sound prediction based on physics? Why would the heavens drag along the pendulum?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

*

Ski

  • Planar Moderator
  • 8730
  • Homines, dum docent, dispenguin.
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #116 on: November 05, 2010, 04:03:30 PM »
If the heavens do not affect the pendulum, why is there such an anomaly? Of course the pendulum works under the heavens. The rotation of the heavens are what cause the rotation of pendulum and the coriolis effect.

Why does the FP rotate in the opposite direction south of the Equator
Because the heavens rotate the opposite direction south of the equator.

Quote
Can FE make a sound prediction based on physics? Why would the heavens drag along the pendulum?
Clearly some sort of "gravitation", although perhaps not in the classical sense.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 41788
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #117 on: November 05, 2010, 05:40:55 PM »
If the heavens do not affect the pendulum, why is there such an anomaly? Of course the pendulum works under the heavens. The rotation of the heavens are what cause the rotation of pendulum and the coriolis effect.

Why does the FP rotate in the opposite direction south of the Equator
Because the heavens rotate the opposite direction south of the equator.
Why would the heavens do that?  ???
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Ski

  • Planar Moderator
  • 8730
  • Homines, dum docent, dispenguin.
Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #118 on: November 05, 2010, 09:51:47 PM »
I don't know. I haven't asked them.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
« Reply #119 on: November 05, 2010, 09:56:40 PM »
If the heavens do not affect the pendulum, why is there such an anomaly? Of course the pendulum works under the heavens. The rotation of the heavens are what cause the rotation of pendulum and the coriolis effect.

Why does the FP rotate in the opposite direction south of the Equator
Because the heavens rotate the opposite direction south of the equator.

Really? Do you have any evidence? From my location the heavens (the Sun, the Moon, and the stars) all move consistently from east to west overhead. Are you maybe on a different planet?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards