Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #360 on: November 10, 2010, 12:28:10 PM »


Incorrect.

Quote from: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Time_travel
Sometime in 2268 the Enterprise traveled back in time, using the light-speed breakaway factor, to 1968 on a historical research mission. (TOS: "Assignment: Earth")

In 2286, Admiral James T. Kirk and his senior staff took a stolen Klingon Bird-of-Prey back in time to the year 1986 to retrieve a pair of then (2286)-extinct humpback whales to save Earth from destruction by an alien probe. (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home)

Really?  Details please?

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Not usually. In fact, is is unusual for it to do so. Far more often actual time-travel occurs.


So then why does it sometimes create an alternate reality and sometimes not?

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And? Can you prove that they could not be able to do this? Just because it does not explicitly say that they have done it, doesn't mean they can't. This is no different than your rationalization that Jengo must have just turned down the power on his laser, or that their are more complex door security systems. There is no explicit statement of this, yet you infer it.


If they could go back that far, they could have simply wiped out the borg before they ever existed.  They didn't indicating that:

1. They can't do it
2. They're too stupid to try it

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They don't have to destroy the planets. Destroy the galaxy when it is forming.


LOL what?  And how the heck do they do that?

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They go back before even them. They could just say. "Eh, just go back a billion years, just in case".


How do they know about the Celestials when the average Star Wars civilian or even historian doesn't?

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They don't need to.


Yes they do.  For one, if they go back in time they would be in the middle of space because the galaxy would have been quite a while away, since galaxies move.  Your idea of them destroying the galaxy is ridiculous, so they'd have to find Coruscant and destroy it, and somehow take on the Celestials.

Oh, and they'd have to assemble a time-traveling fleet within a day, because that's about as long as it would take for Star Wars to win, as I have shown.

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Your own source defeats you. A Jedi can only look into the past, not the future. And it isn't possible for him to look back and see the Federation destroy his galaxy, since he would not exist if they did.


Simple.  Flow walk back to when Star Trek engineers are designing a time traveling ship and record how they make it.  Then, go back to the Star Wars galaxy and have them make their own time traveling ships.

The difference is that Star Wars would actually be able to complete it, while Star Trek has about a day to survive before they get wiped out; they'd need to mobilize a space and time traveling fleet with enough historical and astronomical data within a day.

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Interesting that you bring up not refuting arguments since you never refuted this one:

Evidence that you are a total hypocrite.

Quote's broken.

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #361 on: November 10, 2010, 12:46:38 PM »
Your quote is broken, and I posted that so you can click on the link.

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Trekky0623

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #362 on: November 10, 2010, 12:47:31 PM »
If you want details, just watch Star Trek IV. In fact, concerning time travel, I don't remember a time travel instance where an alternate reality was made. It's rare if it did happen.

As for why the Federation doesn't go back and wipe out the Borg, they could, I guess, but doing so would have consequences for the time line. The Federation has a non interference policy with time travel.

As for flow walking, consider this:

Star Wars defeats Star Trek in a day. (I doubt that, I think it would take longer because you're figures are ludicrous, but I digress.)
The Federation is in ruins. Sometime in the future, a band of renegades steal a time travel ship and go back in time to destroy the Empire before it can destroy Star Trek. Since this is in the future at the time of the attack, the Jedi can't see it then, and why would they be looking several years down the road, or ever? You're assuming the Jedi would be looking in the past constantly. And they have to know where in the timeline to look.

Anyway, our time travelling renegades time travel to the past, destroy the Empire, and save the Federation.

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #363 on: November 10, 2010, 01:02:46 PM »
Incorrect.

Quote from: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Time_travel
Sometime in 2268 the Enterprise traveled back in time, using the light-speed breakaway factor, to 1968 on a historical research mission. (TOS: "Assignment: Earth")

In 2286, Admiral James T. Kirk and his senior staff took a stolen Klingon Bird-of-Prey back in time to the year 1986 to retrieve a pair of then (2286)-extinct humpback whales to save Earth from destruction by an alien probe. (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home)

Really?  Details please?

Read.

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Not usually. In fact, is is unusual for it to do so. Far more often actual time-travel occurs.


So then why does it sometimes create an alternate reality and sometimes not?

Actually it almost never does.

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And? Can you prove that they could not be able to do this? Just because it does not explicitly say that they have done it, doesn't mean they can't. This is no different than your rationalization that Jengo must have just turned down the power on his laser, or that their are more complex door security systems. There is no explicit statement of this, yet you infer it.


If they could go back that far, they could have simply wiped out the borg before they ever existed.  They didn't indicating that:

1. They can't do it
2. They're too stupid to try it

Or they have a treaty with them not to.

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They don't have to destroy the planets. Destroy the galaxy when it is forming.


LOL what?  And how the heck do they do that?

Current scientific theory, (Top-down theory) that tries to explain how galaxies form and why they form in clusters, suggests that multiple galaxies are at first together in large clumps of matter, and then later decompose into several galaxies. All they would have to do is go back and use red matter on the lump.


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They go back before even them. They could just say. "Eh, just go back a billion years, just in case".


How do they know about the Celestials when the average Star Wars civilian or even historian doesn't?

They don't have to. Just go back several billion years.

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They don't need to.


Yes they do.  For one, if they go back in time they would be in the middle of space because the galaxy would have been quite a while away, since galaxies move.  Your idea of them destroying the galaxy is ridiculous, so they'd have to find Coruscant and destroy it, and somehow take on the Celestials.

Oh, and they'd have to assemble a time-traveling fleet within a day, because that's about as long as it would take for Star Wars to win, as I have shown.

Incorrect. Also, it wouldn't matter how long it would take for the ships to destroy the galaxy back in time, because once it is destroyed, Star Wars would cease to exist and the Federation would be threatened.

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Your own source defeats you. A Jedi can only look into the past, not the future. And it isn't possible for him to look back and see the Federation destroy his galaxy, since he would not exist if they did.


Simple.  Flow walk back to when Star Trek engineers are designing a time traveling ship and record how they make it.  Then, go back to the Star Wars galaxy and have them make their own time traveling ships.

The difference is that Star Wars would actually be able to complete it, while Star Trek has about a day to survive before they get wiped out; they'd need to mobilize a space and time traveling fleet with enough historical and astronomical data within a day.

You are suggesting that the Jedi would understand how to build it is incorrect, there is a difference between watching, and understanding. They would also have to know precise times and places to do this. Saying this would be possible is like saying that you personally could go sit in on the Manhattan Project, then come back and explain to North Korea how it works.

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Lorddave

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #364 on: November 10, 2010, 01:13:12 PM »
Oh bloody hell this is annoying.

Yes, I'll answer your post just need several hours and I don't have that today.  Thursday night.

Anyway...

Fact: SW uses Hyperspace, which exists under normal space.
Fact: SW ships are unable to determine their real space location while in hyperspace.  (Hence why you calculate your path first)
Fact: SW ships use a Nav computer or Astromec droid to calculate a Hyperspace jump.
Fact: A SW ship is unable to jump to any point they want and instead must rely on pre-programmed star systems in the galaxy OR an extremely accurate map of the Galaxy.

This easily accounts for why SW has so few inhabited planets compared to the number of planets in the whole galaxy.
To get to new planets, they must scout new hyperspace routes.  Doing so is extremely dangerous as can often result in death by coming out of hyperspace in an asteroid field, a star, or other spacial body.

Fact: SW doesn't have an accurate map of the Milky Way Galaxy.
Therefore: Hyperspace within the Milky Way is impossible.

Also, how would they know where Earth is?  Or where the Federation is?  Can they cross the Galactic Barrier in Hyperspace?   Why haven't they expanded to another galaxy yet?  Can they?  
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #365 on: November 10, 2010, 01:18:28 PM »


Read.


Link please.



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Actually it almost never does.


Why does it EVER then?

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Or they have a treaty with them not to.


What would the Federation  have to gain out of having a treaty with the borg when the borg are clearly intent on assimilating them?  

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Current scientific theory, (Top-down theory) that tries to explain how galaxies form and why they form in clusters, suggests that multiple galaxies are at first together in large clumps of matter, and then later decompose into several galaxies. All they would have to do is go back and use red matter on the lump.


1. You're a FEer and probably don't believe in this (minor though, main point is next)
2. The Federation would have to find these "large clumps".  Because of conservation of mass, these clumps would either be very large, very numerous or extremely dense, probably a combination of them.  

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They don't have to. Just go back several billion years.


Except that, if they could, they would have simply gone back in time and wipe out the Dominion, borg and any other race that posed a threat to them, but they didn't.  This is evidence that the Federation can't go back that far.

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Incorrect. Also, it wouldn't matter how long it would take for the ships to destroy the galaxy back in time, because once it is destroyed, Star Wars would cease to exist and the Federation would be threatened.

They'd have to gone back in time before Star Wars captures those ships though.  If Star Wars wins first, than the Federation doesn't get to send ships back at all and thus the time traveling fleet doesn't get to go back in time.  Steps needed:

1. The President of the Federation decides to use time travel and create potentially deadly time paradoxes and confront the time cops - basically, the Federation would have to view the Galactic Alliance as a greater than the borg, dominion, etc. which concedes that:

a) The Galactic Alliance is far more powerful than any Star Trek faction other than the Q
b) A democratic civilization is somehow more of a threat to the wellbeing of the Federation than a crazy species (the borg) intent of assimilating all of them
(estimated time: wouldn't happen in this case, but if so it would be several hours for the Federation president to examine and analyze the capabilities of the Galactic Alliance)
2. A fleet of space worthy ships that have time travel would have to be built and mobilized (depending on the number of time traveling ships already been, this could range from days to decades, but let's be fair and say days)
3. Crew would have to be taught what to do (hours)
4. A lot of red matter would have to be created (10 years as a generous estimate; they'd need to mobilize their industries to produce red matter and enough of it to destroy a forming galaxy)
5. They'd need to map out the Star Wars galaxy (at least 4 centuries, since the Federation after 4 centuries hasn't mapped out its own galaxy)
6. They'd need to go back in time, find those clumps of the forming galaxy, somehow destroy them and then get back out before running out of fuel (since this is back in time, the time taken is sort of hard to factor in)

Total time: about 410 years and a few hours

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You are suggesting that the Jedi would understand how to build it is incorrect, there is a difference between watching, and understanding. They would also have to know precise times and places to do this. Saying this would be possible is like saying that you personally could go sit in on the Manhattan Project, then come back and explain to North Korea how it works.

Actually, there are plenty of Jedi with lots of engineering experience and scientific knowledge.  Or they could use a holorecorder to record it.

Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #366 on: November 10, 2010, 01:25:23 PM »
Oh bloody hell this is annoying.

What's really annoying is that you've starting 5 seperate debates that you'd drop.  Then, you'd start another one and, after a while, drop that one too without conceding or saying why you dropped it.

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Yes, I'll answer your post just need several hours and I don't have that today.  Thursday night.


Several hours???

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Anyway...

Fact: SW uses Hyperspace, which exists under normal space.


Sort of

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Fact: SW ships are unable to determine their real space location while in hyperspace.  (Hence why you calculate your path first)


Wrong.  Star Wars ships can change paths mid hyperspace journey, but it's not recommended

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Fact: SW ships use a Nav computer or Astromec droid to calculate a Hyperspace jump.

Mhmm

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Fact: A SW ship is unable to jump to any point they want and instead must rely on pre-programmed star systems in the galaxy OR an extremely accurate map of the Galaxy.

Um, no.  Luke and Leia spent a lot of time in some of the EU novels going across unmapped areas of the galaxy.

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This easily accounts for why SW has so few inhabited planets compared to the number of planets in the whole galaxy.

1. You fail to realize that Earth like planets are VERY, VERY rare compared to the number of uninhabitable planets.  In fact, the number of worlds Star Wars has attributes to their terraforming technology.
2. Why would Star Wars colonize a planet if said planet was not of any significant value; some planets are, and others aren't?
3. You do realize that the Federation has FAR less planets than Star Wars does, right?

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To get to new planets, they must scout new hyperspace routes.

Yeah
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Doing so is extremely dangerous as can often result in death by coming out of hyperspace in an asteroid field, a star, or other spacial body.  

1. Probe droids
2. Star Wars shields can withstand asteroid fields for quite a while, and in some cases even stars.

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Fact: SW doesn't have an accurate map of the Milky Way Galaxy.
Therefore: Hyperspace within the Milky Way is impossible.


Not really, and it works both ways.

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Also, how would they know where Earth is?  Or where the Federation is?  Can they cross the Galactic Barrier in Hyperspace?   Why haven't they expanded to another galaxy yet?  Can they?  


If they make first contact with the Federation, they could track the locations of Federation planets using:

1. Probe droids
2. Astronomical mapping
3. Telescope data
4. Heat emissions
5. Conversations with Federation leaders

BTW, it's strange how you've suddenly dropped any idea of trying to argue for the Federation; instead, you're saying "oh Star Wars wins but they can't reach the Federation!"

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Lorddave

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #367 on: November 10, 2010, 01:42:38 PM »
Oh bloody hell this is annoying.

What's really annoying is that you've starting 5 seperate debates that you'd drop.  Then, you'd start another one and, after a while, drop that one too without conceding or saying why you dropped it.
I have a VERY busy schedule so something as minor and irrelevant as this tends to get forgotten.

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Yes, I'll answer your post just need several hours and I don't have that today.  Thursday night.

Several hours???
[/quote]
What?  You don't do background research before you post?  How silly.

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Fact: SW ships are unable to determine their real space location while in hyperspace.  (Hence why you calculate your path first)

Wrong.  Star Wars ships can change paths mid hyperspace journey, but it's not recommended.
I'm sure they can but they have no idea if the space they're currently in "in real space" is an asteroid field or a planet.  My point is that they can't scan Real Space while in Hyperspace and say "Oh look, Alderaan isn't there anymore. I guess I won't be coming out of Hyperspace here."

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Fact: A SW ship is unable to jump to any point they want and instead must rely on pre-programmed star systems in the galaxy OR an extremely accurate map of the Galaxy.

Um, no.  Luke and Leia spent a lot of time in some of the EU novels going across unmapped areas of the galaxy.
You'll have to explain how they cross unmapped areas safely when they need a Nav computer to tell them where to go. 

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This easily accounts for why SW has so few inhabited planets compared to the number of planets in the whole galaxy.

1. You fail to realize that Earth like planets are VERY, VERY rare compared to the number of uninhabitable planets.  In fact, the number of worlds Star Wars has attributes to their terraforming technology.

2. Why would Star Wars colonize a planet if said planet was not of any significant value; some planets are, and others aren't?
3. You do realize that the Federation has FAR less planets than Star Wars does, right?
1. Even at 1% of the total number of planets in a galaxy, it's still more habitable planets than the whole Star Wars Galaxy has.
2. Tattoine.  That's about as useful as a lump of dry sand in the desert.  Oh wait, it IS a lump of dry sand.  Yet you have not one, not two, but THREE species living there. (Humans, Jawas, and Sand People)

3. Federation yes.  Star Trek Galaxy?  No.  There are hundreds of thousands of parsecs that the Federation isn't in.

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Doing so is extremely dangerous as can often result in death by coming out of hyperspace in an asteroid field, a star, or other spacial body.  

1. Probe droids
2. Star Wars shields can withstand asteroid fields for quite a while, and in some cases even stars.
The odds of successfully navigating an asteroid filed are really really low.  So no, I doubt they can.  Especially if they come out of hyperspace INSIDE an asteroid field and smash into a rock while they're decelerating.  I don't have time for the math but I'd be willing to bet that hitting a rock 2 meters wide with a ship that has several hundred thousand KG of mass going several thousand km an hour would destroy it.

As for probe droids, well yes but that kinda blows your "It'll only take one day to wipe out the Federation" argument out of the water.

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Fact: SW doesn't have an accurate map of the Milky Way Galaxy.
Therefore: Hyperspace within the Milky Way is impossible.
Not really, and it works both ways.
Voyager developed an Astrometics lab that gave them a very detailed map of the Galaxy. 

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Also, how would they know where Earth is?  Or where the Federation is?  Can they cross the Galactic Barrier in Hyperspace?   Why haven't they expanded to another galaxy yet?  Can they?  

If they make first contact with the Federation, they could track the locations of Federation planets using:

1. Probe droids
2. Astronomical mapping
3. Telescope data
4. Heat emissions
5. Conversations with Federation leaders
And we couldn't do the same to find Courescant?

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BTW, it's strange how you've suddenly dropped any idea of trying to argue for the Federation; instead, you're saying "oh Star Wars wins but they can't reach the Federation!"
You don't read do you?
I told you already, I conceded back on page 3. 
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Trekky0623

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #368 on: November 10, 2010, 02:01:45 PM »
ITT:


Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #369 on: November 10, 2010, 02:03:31 PM »
I don't see how time travel could possibly affect the Star Wars universe. Star Trek would still need to deal with threats. The farther back in time they go, the more Jedi/Sith there would be to resist them. There isn't really anything in the Star Trek universe that they could send through time that would be able to take on the jedi. And once they arrived, any jedi in the area would be aware of hostile intent.
The chains of habit are too weak to be felt until they are too strong to be broken. -Samuel Johnson

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #370 on: November 10, 2010, 02:05:28 PM »
I don't see how time travel could possibly affect the Star Wars universe. Star Trek would still need to deal with threats. The farther back in time they go, the more Jedi/Sith there would be to resist them. There isn't really anything in the Star Trek universe that they could send through time that would be able to take on the jedi. And once they arrived, any jedi in the area would be aware of hostile intent.

They go back in time before those jedi even existed, before, the galaxy they exist in even formed.

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Trekky0623

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #371 on: November 10, 2010, 02:06:00 PM »
I don't see how time travel could possibly affect the Star Wars universe. Star Trek would still need to deal with threats. The farther back in time they go, the more Jedi/Sith there would be to resist them. There isn't really anything in the Star Trek universe that they could send through time that would be able to take on the jedi. And once they arrived, any jedi in the area would be aware of hostile intent.


Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #372 on: November 10, 2010, 02:07:00 PM »
I don't see how time travel could possibly affect the Star Wars universe. Star Trek would still need to deal with threats. The farther back in time they go, the more Jedi/Sith there would be to resist them. There isn't really anything in the Star Trek universe that they could send through time that would be able to take on the jedi. And once they arrived, any jedi in the area would be aware of hostile intent.

They go back in time before those jedi even existed, before, the galaxy they exist in even formed.

It would be like going back in time here on earth to try and stop the evolutionary process.
The chains of habit are too weak to be felt until they are too strong to be broken. -Samuel Johnson

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Trekky0623

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #373 on: November 10, 2010, 02:08:15 PM »
I don't see how time travel could possibly affect the Star Wars universe. Star Trek would still need to deal with threats. The farther back in time they go, the more Jedi/Sith there would be to resist them. There isn't really anything in the Star Trek universe that they could send through time that would be able to take on the jedi. And once they arrived, any jedi in the area would be aware of hostile intent.

They go back in time before those jedi even existed, before, the galaxy they exist in even formed.

It would be like going back in time here on earth to try and stop the evolutionary process.



"All Good Things"

Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #374 on: November 10, 2010, 02:13:40 PM »
So you get one planet out of thousands or millions.
The chains of habit are too weak to be felt until they are too strong to be broken. -Samuel Johnson

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Trekky0623

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #375 on: November 10, 2010, 02:17:28 PM »
So you get one planet out of thousands or millions.

Even one planet would have consequence on the time line.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 02:19:56 PM by Trekky0623 »

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #376 on: November 10, 2010, 02:18:10 PM »
Read.

Link please.

I did.

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Actually it almost never does.


Why does it EVER then?

Do link when it does.

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Or they have a treaty with them not to.


What would the Federation  have to gain out of having a treaty with the borg when the borg are clearly intent on assimilating them? 

Irrelevant.

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Current scientific theory, (Top-down theory) that tries to explain how galaxies form and why they form in clusters, suggests that multiple galaxies are at first together in large clumps of matter, and then later decompose into several galaxies. All they would have to do is go back and use red matter on the lump.

1. You're a FEer and probably don't believe in this (minor though, main point is next)
2. The Federation would have to find these "large clumps".  Because of conservation of mass, these clumps would either be very large, very numerous or extremely dense, probably a combination of them. 

1. Why wouldn't I? Also irrelevant.
2. They wouldn't be hard to find. The size of these clumps are estimated to be the size a million times larger than the sun.

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They don't have to. Just go back several billion years.

Except that, if they could, they would have simply gone back in time and wipe out the Dominion, borg and any other race that posed a threat to them, but they didn't.  This is evidence that the Federation can't go back that far.

Sure, they could, but they choose not to. Your point is completely irrelevant. If it is truly Star Wars vs Star Trek, they don't need a motive for doing so.

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Incorrect. Also, it wouldn't matter how long it would take for the ships to destroy the galaxy back in time, because once it is destroyed, Star Wars would cease to exist and the Federation would be threatened.

They'd have to gone back in time before Star Wars captures those ships though.  If Star Wars wins first, than the Federation doesn't get to send ships back at all and thus the time traveling fleet doesn't get to go back in time.  Steps needed:

1. The President of the Federation decides to use time travel and create potentially deadly time paradoxes and confront the time cops - basically, the Federation would have to view the Galactic Alliance as a greater than the borg, dominion, etc. which concedes that:

a) The Galactic Alliance is far more powerful than any Star Trek faction other than the Q
b) A democratic civilization is somehow more of a threat to the wellbeing of the Federation than a crazy species (the borg) intent of assimilating all of them
(estimated time: wouldn't happen in this case, but if so it would be several hours for the Federation president to examine and analyze the capabilities of the Galactic Alliance)
2. A fleet of space worthy ships that have time travel would have to be built and mobilized (depending on the number of time traveling ships already been, this could range from days to decades, but let's be fair and say days)
3. Crew would have to be taught what to do (hours)
4. A lot of red matter would have to be created (10 years as a generous estimate; they'd need to mobilize their industries to produce red matter and enough of it to destroy a forming galaxy)
5. They'd need to map out the Star Wars galaxy (at least 4 centuries, since the Federation after 4 centuries hasn't mapped out its own galaxy)
6. They'd need to go back in time, find those clumps of the forming galaxy, somehow destroy them and then get back out before running out of fuel (since this is back in time, the time taken is sort of hard to factor in)

Total time: about 410 years and a few hours

This is complete conjecture. You have no proof that this scenario would actually happen. Again, this is only one situation that you are setting up all of the variables for the purposes of winning a single war. The title says in any war, which means that it is perfectly reasonable that Star Trek already knew about the Star Wars galaxy. If you are wanting to play this game, the title needs to read, "Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in a war" You are only producing one scenario, one in which Star Wars has significant element of surprise, and is randomly deciding to attack another race in another galaxy. You are not considering every scenario and have a narrow view. You fail.

Also, you saying they have to produce a lot of red matter is retarded. Black holes will grow over time, they do not need a shit load.

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You are suggesting that the Jedi would understand how to build it is incorrect, there is a difference between watching, and understanding. They would also have to know precise times and places to do this. Saying this would be possible is like saying that you personally could go sit in on the Manhattan Project, then come back and explain to North Korea how it works.

Actually, there are plenty of Jedi with lots of engineering experience and scientific knowledge.  Or they could use a holorecorder to record it.

What, because you think people are going to sit around and say, "THIS IS HOW WE DO IT, IT IS OK, YOU CAN WATCH."

Are you retarded? Again, it doesn't matter if they have scientific knowledge. A biologist won't have a clue what an astrophysicist is talking about, or is devising.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 02:22:16 PM by EnglshGentleman »

Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #377 on: November 10, 2010, 02:23:15 PM »
So you get one planet out of thousands or millions.

Even one planet would have consequence on the time line.

You're right. You might end up making one particular faction even stronger, or you might create an entirely different faction in the process. However, this would not prevent force sensitive beings from coming into existence. The force is a universal property in the Star Wars universe similar to gravity.
The chains of habit are too weak to be felt until they are too strong to be broken. -Samuel Johnson

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Trekky0623

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #378 on: November 10, 2010, 02:26:16 PM »
So you get one planet out of thousands or millions.

Even one planet would have consequence on the time line.

You're right. You might end up making one particular faction even stronger, or you might create an entirely different faction in the process. However, this would not prevent force sensitive beings from coming into existence. The force is a universal property in the Star Wars universe similar to gravity.

So find a history book.

And realistically, you have a mother-f-ing time machine. You have all the time in the world to do whatever you want. Just keep trying.

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #379 on: November 10, 2010, 02:26:25 PM »
So you get one planet out of thousands or millions.

Even one planet would have consequence on the time line.

You're right. You might end up making one particular faction even stronger, or you might create an entirely different faction in the process. However, this would not prevent force sensitive beings from coming into existence. The force is a universal property in the Star Wars universe similar to gravity.

Which is why you just destroy the entire galaxy as I said above.

So find a history book.

And realistically, you have a mother-f-ing time machine. You have all the time in the world to do whatever you want. Just keep trying.

I agree with this. All they have to do is keep going back and forth in time destroying shit.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 02:28:34 PM by EnglshGentleman »

Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #380 on: November 10, 2010, 02:31:43 PM »
So you get one planet out of thousands or millions.

Even one planet would have consequence on the time line.

You're right. You might end up making one particular faction even stronger, or you might create an entirely different faction in the process. However, this would not prevent force sensitive beings from coming into existence. The force is a universal property in the Star Wars universe similar to gravity.

So find a history book.

And realistically, you have a mother-f-ing time machine. You have all the time in the world to do whatever you want. Just keep trying.

"Do whatever you want"

What do you mean by that? Humans are limited in what they can do.
The chains of habit are too weak to be felt until they are too strong to be broken. -Samuel Johnson

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Username

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #381 on: November 11, 2010, 07:47:50 AM »
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force. 
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #382 on: November 11, 2010, 08:14:14 AM »
"I sense something, a presence I've not felt since......."


Name:    James

Last Active:    Today at 02:24:22 PM
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord


Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #384 on: November 11, 2010, 02:12:50 PM »


I did.


They almost certainly didn't travel to the same timeline, unless if they wanted to mess up history for a project.

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Actually it almost never does.


But it sometimes does, for some reason.

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Do link when it does.


2009 Star Trek movie

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Or they have a treaty with them not to.


And why would you make a treaty with an enemy intent on destroying you when, without said treaty, you could wipe them out?

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Irrelevant.


Relevant.  The Federation agrees to not use time travel to wipe out the borg even though doing so would benefit the Federation and practically all life in the galaxy.  They're either really stupid or can't use time travel like you wank them to be able to.



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1. Why wouldn't I? Also irrelevant.
2. They wouldn't be hard to find. The size of these clumps are estimated to be the size a million times larger than the sun.


1. You FEers think that the sun is only a few KM wide, meaning that the galaxy would be far smaller than it really is
2. Prove that red matter can suck in a clump of matter that big; otherwise, they would have sucked up the fleet around Vulcan too.  Also, you seem to fail to understand how big space is.

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Sure, they could, but they choose not to. Your point is completely irrelevant. If it is truly Star Wars vs Star Trek, they don't need a motive for doing so.


The Federation had a motive for using it so many times, yet they didn't.

1. They're stupid
or
2. They can't do what you claim they can


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This is complete conjecture. You have no proof that this scenario would actually happen. Again, this is only one situation that you are setting up all of the variables for the purposes of winning a single war. The title says in any war, which means that it is perfectly reasonable that Star Trek already knew about the Star Wars galaxy. If you are wanting to play this game, the title needs to read, "Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in a war" You are only producing one scenario, one in which Star Wars has significant element of surprise, and is randomly deciding to attack another race in another galaxy. You are not considering every scenario and have a narrow view. You fail.

Also, you saying they have to produce a lot of red matter is retarded. Black holes will grow over time, they do not need a shit load.


1. Your first paragraph is based on technical nitpicks on my thread title.  My OP strikes down most of your claims.
2. Your claim that black holes will grow over time is unsupported.  If that happened, then why wasn't the black hole that destroyed Vulcan still growing and there?  Why didn't that rogue Romulan simply use red matter near Sol and then have it eventually consume Earth?

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What, because you think people are going to sit around and say, "THIS IS HOW WE DO IT, IT IS OK, YOU CAN WATCH."

Are you retarded? Again, it doesn't matter if they have scientific knowledge. A biologist won't have a clue what an astrophysicist is talking about, or is devising.

More bullshit.  Many Jedi have experience with engineering.  Again, if they holorecord the construction, they can send it to a Star Wars engineer to figure out how to make it.

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Trekky0623

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #385 on: November 11, 2010, 03:11:11 PM »
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Do link when it does.


2009 Star Trek movie

FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU!

Now, on time travel.

We know that 29th century Federation has time travel and that they use it regularly. Hell, they have time ships. However, as stated in "Future's End", they also have a temporal prime directive, so they don't interfere with the time line due to the disastrous consequences that could unfold.

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Wendy

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #386 on: November 11, 2010, 03:19:01 PM »
It's funny, because the 2009 Star Trek movie wasn't set in an alternate timeline.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Lorddave

  • 18146
Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #387 on: November 11, 2010, 03:26:17 PM »


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Um, no.  Luke and Leia spent a lot of time in some of the EU novels going across unmapped areas of the galaxy.

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Also, Star Wars ships use hyperspace paths, limiting safe movement to only explored areas.  So in the Milky Way Galaxy, they would not have any navigational information or hyperspace paths so they would not be able to travel.
Yet they've mapped out every part of the Star Wars galaxy.

You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Trekky0623

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Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #388 on: November 11, 2010, 03:26:54 PM »
It's funny, because the 2009 Star Trek movie wasn't set in an alternate timeline.

It sure as hell wasn't set in the real timeline. HOW DARE THEY DESTROY VULCAN? Fuckers.

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Wendy

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  • I laugh cus you fake
Re: Scientific proof that Star Wars would crush Star Trek in any war
« Reply #389 on: November 11, 2010, 03:40:40 PM »
No, I didn't mean it was set in the original timeline. I meant that it wasn't set in the original universe. Because it wasn't. It's explained within the movie that this is an alternate universe. Which would explain the characters looking nothing like their young selves.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.