Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain

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Moonlit

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Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« on: October 13, 2010, 07:34:54 AM »
It has been brought to my attention that I should file a claim for money BP is giving out to all residence of Louisiana.  The problem with this is that it's for those who were actually affected by the spill.  My father suggested I go down to file the claim so I can get my money from it.  But why?  I was not affected by the spill.  If I were to file a claim and receive money that I do not feel I deserve, I'd be guilty of the same things I complain about.  For instance, those who file for welfare and don't deserve it.  Those who file for disability just so they can sit on their lazy asses.  It seems it would be hypocritical of me to take money I don't deserve. 

How much are the people who file getting?  A cook in a restaurant got 9k.  A hotel desk clerk got 34k.  It's certainly tempting.  I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.  If you had the opportunity to file for this money, would you?  How would you justify it?
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?

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Eddy Baby

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2010, 07:47:50 AM »
Not claim. Greed<real people's needs.

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Thork

Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2010, 07:58:01 AM »
Regardless of whether you file or not, other people will. This then does effect you because either the pump price will increase to cover these costs or you will be taxed more, depending on who pays out and whether the government will contribute to BP. Even if you choose to buy your fuel from another supplier, their insurance etc will now have risen, thereby making them pass the costs on to you at the pump. You are in the fortunate position to be able to claim this back. Despite being in England, I will also be paying for this, but do not have this option. So indirectly you are only protecting against losses to yourself, induced by this accident and should feel no remorse in claiming.

You will probably get more than you would have lost at the pump back, but the anguish this has put you under in itself deserves compensation. Maybe a new car would help ease your troubled mind and hence justice will been done.

You didn't cause this spill. They did. You are the victim now. Don't let them use 'twisted morality' to try to cheat you out of what you deserve.

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Parsifal

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2010, 08:04:49 AM »
If you claiming somehow diminishes the amount people in real need would get, then I agree with you. If they're giving out fixed amounts to everyone without regard for how many others have claimed, I see no reason not to. Corporations will take every opportunity they can get to cheat you; use this opportunity to bring them down a notch.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2010, 08:17:24 AM »
Thork kind of tailed into sarcasm towards the end there, but he is correct that someone will ultimately pay, and it probably won't just be BP executives. Personally, I would file the claim, but think long and hard about what you do with the money, and thoroughly investigate where it is actually coming from. You can always give it to a cause, institution or person that really needs it if you don't feel comfortable with it. Easier said than done though.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 09:03:36 AM by Lord Wilmore »
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Thork

Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2010, 08:41:17 AM »
Ok, sarcastic hat off. I would like you to consider the Bhopal disaster. Read the actual harm caused by a US firm against someone else. Then see how much they were made to pay the Indians as a percentage of what was required.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster#Compensation_from_Union_Carbide

The US have still not paid for it. But another nation effecting them. Different story. US Citizens making these claims were not hurt. What happened in India was an atrocity. Is it right Louisiana residents can claim, when Indians who were poisoned could not? Read the effects this accident had.
Maybe this wouldn't be a bad place to donate?

Personally I think the US is taking the p**s. Both citizens and government.  >:(


« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 09:47:33 AM by Thork »

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Moonlit

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2010, 08:43:37 AM »
Why not file the claim and donate the entire sum to a local relief organization or something similar? If BP is just doling out money to everybody, you might as well make sure at least a portion of it goes to assist those directly affected.
You always give it to a cause, institution or person who really needs it if you don't feel comfortable with it. Easier said than done though.
I actually considered this option.  I thought that if I were to file the claim, I would most likely donate it to help a relief foundation for the wildlife that was affected by the spill.  Then I considered I could also claim this donation on my taxes so that in the end I would still benefit from it, regardless of how little benefit it may be in comparison to the pay out.
You didn't cause this spill. They did. You are the victim now. Don't let them use 'twisted morality' to try to cheat you out of what you deserve.
I don't see where I'm the victim of anything except the fact that the government is unwilling (or seemingly so) to put more funding into the development of safer, more efficient sources of energy.  Rather, they continue protecting the oil companies by bailing them out whenever something goes terribly wrong.  And no one is using "twisted morality" to try and cheat me.  I made a moral judgment based on my personal views.
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2010, 08:59:05 AM »
When you are 'unaffected, then keeping the money would be immoral. Then again, BP certainly shouldn't keep it, so I'm on board with the donations.

...btw how exactly do you expect to successfully file a claim if you are unaffected?
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Moonlit

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2010, 09:10:35 AM »
When you are 'unaffected, then keeping the money would be immoral. Then again, BP certainly shouldn't keep it, so I'm on board with the donations.

...btw how exactly do you expect to successfully file a claim if you are unaffected?
Apparently, it's a free-for-all.  The cook that claimed for it, was not directly affected either.  He claimed wages lost which, even if he did lose wages, they certainly weren't 9k.  According to my father, they're just giving it away to who ever files a claim.  Not that, that surprises me.  I live in Louisiana.  The government is always feeding the greedy here.
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2010, 09:34:01 AM »
When you are 'unaffected, then keeping the money would be immoral. Then again, BP certainly shouldn't keep it, so I'm on board with the donations.

...btw how exactly do you expect to successfully file a claim if you are unaffected?
Apparently, it's a free-for-all.  The cook that claimed for it, was not directly affected either.  He claimed wages lost which, even if he did lose wages, they certainly weren't 9k.  According to my father, they're just giving it away to who ever files a claim.  Not that, that surprises me.  I live in Louisiana.  The government is always feeding the greedy here.

All right, then what's the problem?  If they're just giving out money, then there's no reason for you not to partake.  Besides, BP deserves as much punishment as they can get.  Frankly, I don't understand why the executives aren't in jail.  A drunk driver who negligently kills someone is imprisoned, why not executives who are responsible for the negligent deaths of eleven people, the injuries of dozens more, and not to mention the widespread economic and ecological damage?

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General Douchebag

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2010, 10:00:43 AM »
When you are 'unaffected, then keeping the money would be immoral. Then again, BP certainly shouldn't keep it, so I'm on board with the donations.

...btw how exactly do you expect to successfully file a claim if you are unaffected?
Apparently, it's a free-for-all.  The cook that claimed for it, was not directly affected either.  He claimed wages lost which, even if he did lose wages, they certainly weren't 9k.  According to my father, they're just giving it away to who ever files a claim.  Not that, that surprises me.  I live in Louisiana.  The government is always feeding the greedy here.

All right, then what's the problem?  If they're just giving out money, then there's no reason for you not to partake.  Besides, BP deserves as much punishment as they can get.  Frankly, I don't understand why the executives aren't in jail.  A drunk driver who negligently kills someone is imprisoned, why not executives who are responsible for the negligent deaths of eleven people, the injuries of dozens more, and not to mention the widespread economic and ecological damage?

Driving drunk is illegal, whereas totally neglecting to put any failsafes on your oil rig isn't (in the US), and even if it was then Transocean would be responsible for that as they operated the rig, not BP.

I don't understand why anybody is blaming BP for anything more than their terrible response to the disaster.
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2010, 10:27:53 AM »
I'm pretty sure they did several illegal things, like not taking certain specific precautions or altering the oil to make it sink (Which makes it harder to quantify, and also harder to collect)

I'll have to research it after class. I'm admittedly going off hearsay.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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theonlydann

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 10:48:06 AM »
I just filed a claim. I was planning on starting a shrimp boat building company... so i figure i lost like... a million dollars.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2010, 10:56:43 AM »
When you are 'unaffected, then keeping the money would be immoral. Then again, BP certainly shouldn't keep it, so I'm on board with the donations.

...btw how exactly do you expect to successfully file a claim if you are unaffected?
Apparently, it's a free-for-all.  The cook that claimed for it, was not directly affected either.  He claimed wages lost which, even if he did lose wages, they certainly weren't 9k.  According to my father, they're just giving it away to who ever files a claim.  Not that, that surprises me.  I live in Louisiana.  The government is always feeding the greedy here.

All right, then what's the problem?  If they're just giving out money, then there's no reason for you not to partake.  Besides, BP deserves as much punishment as they can get.  Frankly, I don't understand why the executives aren't in jail.  A drunk driver who negligently kills someone is imprisoned, why not executives who are responsible for the negligent deaths of eleven people, the injuries of dozens more, and not to mention the widespread economic and ecological damage?

Driving drunk is illegal, whereas totally neglecting to put any failsafes on your oil rig isn't (in the US), and even if it was then Transocean would be responsible for that as they operated the rig, not BP.

I don't understand why anybody is blaming BP for anything more than their terrible response to the disaster.

Fair point.  Okay then, I think I'll go ahead and start juggling some very sharp machetes in the middle of the street.  If one of them falls and hurts someone, I'll just talk my way out of punishment by pointing out that there is no law that specifically prohibits juggling machetes in the middle of the street.  After all, a death is only criminal if it occurs during the commission of a separate crime, right?

Although I do agree with you on the other part; Transocean should be held responsible as well.

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Lorddave

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2010, 12:43:21 PM »
I wouldn't take it.  But I'm just that kind of guy.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Moonlit

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2010, 01:10:55 PM »
All right, then what's the problem?  If they're just giving out money, then there's no reason for you not to partake.  Besides, BP deserves as much punishment as they can get.  Frankly, I don't understand why the executives aren't in jail.  A drunk driver who negligently kills someone is imprisoned, why not executives who are responsible for the negligent deaths of eleven people, the injuries of dozens more, and not to mention the widespread economic and ecological damage?
Silly Saddam.  Reckless endangerment and negligent death doesn't apply to corporate companies with lobbyists lining the pockets of our politicians.   
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2010, 01:22:27 PM »
It's like the whole issue of crack sentencing vs. cocaine sentencing from a few years ago.

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Lorddave

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2010, 01:39:02 PM »


This may sound harsh, but 15 years for someone homeless may be an improvement.  If the goes to a smaller, less violent prison, he goes from having no place to sleep, begging for change, and soup kitchens to a heated building, a bed, a toilet, showers, clean clothes, 3 meals a day, and possibly books or television.

The loss of the freedom to go where you want for the guarantee of surviving the winter might not be such a bad tradeoff.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2010, 02:09:43 PM »
This may sound harsh, but 15 years for someone homeless may be an improvement.  If the goes to a smaller, less violent prison, he goes from having no place to sleep, begging for change, and soup kitchens to a heated building, a bed, a toilet, showers, clean clothes, 3 meals a day, and possibly books or television.

The loss of the freedom to go where you want for the guarantee of surviving the winter might not be such a bad tradeoff.

That is hardly the point.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2010, 02:18:29 PM »


This may sound harsh, but 15 years for someone homeless may be an improvement.  If the goes to a smaller, less violent prison, he goes from having no place to sleep, begging for change, and soup kitchens to a heated building, a bed, a toilet, showers, clean clothes, 3 meals a day, and possibly books or television.

The loss of the freedom to go where you want for the guarantee of surviving the winter might not be such a bad tradeoff.


... that's what you took from the image? Seriously?
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Lorddave

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Re: Personal Moral Standards Trump Personal Gain
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2010, 06:26:24 PM »


This may sound harsh, but 15 years for someone homeless may be an improvement.  If the goes to a smaller, less violent prison, he goes from having no place to sleep, begging for change, and soup kitchens to a heated building, a bed, a toilet, showers, clean clothes, 3 meals a day, and possibly books or television.

The loss of the freedom to go where you want for the guarantee of surviving the winter might not be such a bad tradeoff.


... that's what you took from the image? Seriously?

Yes. Of course I just saw the headline above about the AIG executive so that changes what I get out of it. 

Yes, that's horrible and imbalances.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.