FES debunked by Thork

This is a super awesome website. I like it.

 

I sincerely appreciate your honesty and commend you for the confession. While I cannot approve of trolling, I do understand that was not your intention.

If you would like, our team would be privileged to have you join us. Please come back.

I knew you weren't serious.

Just to address things quickly:

1. It isn't hard to 'plead for ignorance', Thork. Most of TB's/James/etc posts are simply speculation and fantasy. This isn't clever, and it isn't well employed. If it were clever, they would be doing what you tried to do.
2. I commend you on your attempt at trying to teach people, but there's little learning potential to be had on these forums. Very few posts on these boards have any evidence of anything in them, whatsoever. There are far better ways to get kids to debate science.
3. I suppose most of us come here on a regular basis to knowingly argue with trolls, try to satisfy the addiction that is "assertion of truth", or simply for a sense of superiority. Personally, I come here for the laughs. Being a 19y/o College kid studying Physics, I don't think I've picked anything up. The argument on here will go on forever, because FET cannot be disproved.

Farewell Thork.

I sincerely appreciate your honesty and commend you for the confession. While I cannot approve of trolling, I do understand that was not your intention.

If you would like, our team would be privileged to have you join us. Please come back.

I think one of his points was "Someone who has a higher level education in Physics + Maths shouldn't be debating here as they already know the Earth is round".

I sincerely appreciate your honesty and commend you for the confession. While I cannot approve of trolling, I do understand that was not your intention.

If you would like, our team would be privileged to have you join us. Please come back.

Did you not read his post?  He just called you an idiot for tirelessly defending RE theory.  Why would he come back and do that?

Quote from: ClockTower on September 28, 2010, 08:12:55 PM

I sincerely appreciate your honesty and commend you for the confession. While I cannot approve of trolling, I do understand that was not your intention.

If you would like, our team would be privileged to have you join us. Please come back.

Did you not read his post?  He just called you an idiot for tirelessly defending RE theory.  Why would he come back and do that?

He did not call me an idiot. He was brutal, yes. But I do understand his confusion. He forgets that leading by example can mentor. And Tom Bishop and James need adversaries.

I for one am still just here to practice debate techniques, and brush up on my knowledge of physics. Also, in an attempt to get the "FE believers" (if such a thing exists which I am still not convinced of) to properly and fully explain their theory. If you think I'm stupid or pathetic for that reason, that's your opinion. If you think FE is "incredibly clever", that's also your opinion.

So get back up on your high horse, and don't come back. There are enough trolls here to take your place.

I don't think the OP's description of me is justifiable at all. I have, in the past, been quite patient with new members who ask sensible questions and show inclination to lurk of their own accord; having been like that myself once, I know what there is to be gained from it. It's the sort who act like they know it all without lurking and repeatedly post idiotic questions - nay, demands - in FED that I have no time for.

I do agree with Parsifal's statement.  I think that most of the time people misinterpret his terse posts as rude, when they are not.  His posts are just succinct.  He doesn't attack people unless they bite first, but he will carry that over into other threads.

A strange title for a flat earth proponent.

Its 3am and I can't sleep. This thread below is part of the reason.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=42898.0;topicseen


Its made harder and more frustrating by the resident RErs. ClockTower, Vindictus, Zork, Berny_74, why are you on here night after night trying to prove the earth is round? The site is for kids to prove earth is round. Not 20 something year old virgins. Someone replied to one of my posts "I have a PHD in mathematics/astrophysics". So why the hell are you here? You know the earth is round. F'off and let the kids have a go. If I was to lower the level of argument to challenge Ghost55 I know in seconds Vindictus and ClockTower would be there waiting to tear me a new one. ClockTower you said in a post today "Science is your friend". Its not. My friends are real people. Get out of your computer room and meet some. Do you think Tom or James like spending 2 hours a day humouring you? You are not the point of FES. They are trying to foster debate and get hour after hour of you patronisingly telling them they are stupid. They aren't. You're stupid because you can't see past the argument, for their motive. Its geared for kids. Adults aren't supposed to believe there are shrimp on the moon or that moon light hurts. Get a life!

Wait - 32 posts, here less than two weeks, how did I get nailed as a "resident"
Nor am I 20, quite a bit older, nor a virgin, now divorced, and I do not have a degree in anything except for culinary.  My math skills are probably around Highschool - degraded since unused.  My reason for being here is the past month I have only managed one or two hours of sleep a day and have to contemplate switching meds so floating around this forum and reading is a slight bit of therapy.

I was hoping more for answers than statements about flat earth.  I may not be the most intelligent person, or grasping most theories - but I have had the good luck to have traveled when I was younger.  I have been to Africa, Europe, South America, and Middle East.  Mostly by boat. 

Therefore I have been interested in the theories of how things would appear.  A flat earth would have dynamically different properties and it would be interesting to see how people would think they would be formed up.  I am less interested in what is beyond the stars and more the visual effects would take.

Also I try and look up information on posts which in a small part allows to do a less random version of expanding some education.  Though I have yet to be able to grasp either relativities.  No matter how many you tube visual examples.  Or how bendy light works/does not work.  Light bends under certain circumstances so...?

I just don't like statements downed with no real facts that I can look up.

Shrimp on the moon?  err, Okay but what about Europa?

Think of me as a troll, i don't care.  I just wish sometimes the examples of a flat earth where a little more thought out.

Berny

I just wish sometimes the examples of a flat earth where a little more thought out.

I'm with you with this one. There is no value of learning when person argues stubbornly that poetic line "the thousands suns" somehow proves something about the sun energy output. And the long goodbye messages are weird.
 Also, it's not like I personally try my hardest to debunk FE but if someone like Thork enthusiastically hops in and starts rambling without being able to stand for his points of view, then its hard to ignore.

EDIT: And I would liked to see the Thork to prove that the Earth is round... and to see him fail here.

Quote from: berny_74 on September 28, 2010, 08:37:03 PM

I just wish sometimes the examples of a flat earth where a little more thought out.

I'm with you with this one. There is no value of learning when person argues stubbornly that poetic line "the thousands suns" somehow proves something about the sun energy output. And the long goodbye messages are weird.

Here's another thing I have problems visualizing - sorry all I am a visual person.  The gravity effects.  RET is gravity is the effect of space/time or the rubberbedsheet theory.  FET is a constant acceleration upwards.

Would not a laser emitting light at a right angle to the ground have slightly different properties in the different theories? 
RET it would travel somewhat straight since the effect of gravity would have little effect on it.  The earth is less massive then a star which has light bending effcts.  Or a blackhole. 

In a FET model the light emitted by the laser would not be effected by the acceleration so it would appear to bend downwords as the emitting source continues in it's constant acceleration upwards?

Berny

Probably should be in a different topic 

Quote from: zork on September 28, 2010, 09:01:04 PM

Quote from: berny_74 on September 28, 2010, 08:37:03 PM

I just wish sometimes the examples of a flat earth where a little more thought out.

I'm with you with this one. There is no value of learning when person argues stubbornly that poetic line "the thousands suns" somehow proves something about the sun energy output. And the long goodbye messages are weird.

Here's another thing I have problems visualizing - sorry all I am a visual person.  The gravity effects.  RET is gravity is the effect of space/time or the rubberbedsheet theory.  FET is a constant acceleration upwards.

Would not a laser emitting light at a right angle to the ground have slightly different properties in the different theories? 
RET it would travel somewhat straight since the effect of gravity would have little effect on it.  The earth is less massive then a star which has light bending effcts.  Or a blackhole. 

In a FET model the light emitted by the laser would not be effected by the acceleration so it would appear to bend downwords as the emitting source continues in it's constant acceleration upwards?

Berny

Probably should be in a different topic 

Please read up on Einstein's Equivalence Principle. It ends up that locally they're the same.

I don't think the OP's description of me is justifiable at all. I have, in the past, been quite patient with new members who ask sensible questions and show inclination to lurk of their own accord; having been like that myself once, I know what there is to be gained from it. It's the sort who act like they know it all without lurking and repeatedly post idiotic questions - nay, demands - in FED that I have no time for.

I feel that I too, generally follow this. I don't know whether any RE residents care to attest to this, but I have many times tried to shoo them away from Q&A when a newbie is asking a question so they don't get confused. As with Parsifal, I don't care much for the angry noobs, but I am almost always gentle when a newbie comes and earnestly wants to learn.

And in the defense of the RE residents, (since I used to be one, so I know what it is like to debate with Parsifal or Tom or any other FE'er) they do get knowledge when debating against FET. Every once in a while, FE'ers actually do come up with legitimate (or seemingly legitimate) points in which require further research on the topic. This site isn't just for basic math as you say. Furthermore to a RE'er it is also a bit of sport, a FE'er makes a claim, and then they go about figuring out how to disprove it. Sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is harder. I fail to see how this makes them pathetic.

That poor kid Ghost55 came to the site to talk about science

This is a bit of a misrepresentation. He came to say "I'm right and your wrong" and refused to listen to your well thought out answer, or even do a simple internet search.

Quote from: berny_74 on September 28, 2010, 09:17:38 PM

Quote from: zork on September 28, 2010, 09:01:04 PM

Quote from: berny_74 on September 28, 2010, 08:37:03 PM

I just wish sometimes the examples of a flat earth where a little more thought out.

I'm with you with this one. There is no value of learning when person argues stubbornly that poetic line "the thousands suns" somehow proves something about the sun energy output. And the long goodbye messages are weird.

Here's another thing I have problems visualizing - sorry all I am a visual person.  The gravity effects.  RET is gravity is the effect of space/time or the rubberbedsheet theory.  FET is a constant acceleration upwards.

Would not a laser emitting light at a right angle to the ground have slightly different properties in the different theories? 
RET it would travel somewhat straight since the effect of gravity would have little effect on it.  The earth is less massive then a star which has light bending effcts.  Or a blackhole. 

In a FET model the light emitted by the laser would not be effected by the acceleration so it would appear to bend downwords as the emitting source continues in it's constant acceleration upwards?

Berny

Probably should be in a different topic 

Please read up on Einstein's Equivalence Principle. It ends up that locally they're the same.

Probably there's a reason why I prefer Escoffier to Einstein.  Even though they have the same initials.

Berny

Quote from: Parsifal on September 28, 2010, 08:27:28 PM

I don't think the OP's description of me is justifiable at all. I have, in the past, been quite patient with new members who ask sensible questions and show inclination to lurk of their own accord; having been like that myself once, I know what there is to be gained from it. It's the sort who act like they know it all without lurking and repeatedly post idiotic questions - nay, demands - in FED that I have no time for.

I feel that I too, generally follow this. I don't know whether any RE residents care to attest to this, but I have many times tried to shoo them away from Q&A when a newbie is asking a question so they don't get confused. As with Parsifal, I don't care much for the angry noobs, but I am almost always gentle when a newbie comes and earnestly wants to learn.

And in the defense of the RE residents, (since I used to be one, so I know what it is like to debate with Parsifal or Tom or any other FE'er) they do get knowledge when debating against FET. Every once in a while, FE'ers actually do come up with legitimate (or seemingly legitimate) points in which require further research on the topic. This site isn't just for basic math as you say. Furthermore to a RE'er it is also a bit of sport, a FE'er makes a claim, and then they go about figuring out how to disprove it. Sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is harder. I fail to see how this makes them pathetic.

Quote

That poor kid Ghost55 came to the site to talk about science

This is a bit of a misrepresentation. He came to say "I'm right and your wrong" and refused to listen to your well thought out answer, or even do a simple internet search.

Agreed.

Why have you done this Thork? You could have just retired and not create yourself this image.

 No reason to cry over spilled milk. He was just not up to his task which he took.

EDIT: Deleted to stop boring ClockTower linking people to it, every time someone new shows up on FES.

Group hug time?

No one has a PhD in anything. Next thing you know, they'll be telling you they have an uncle who works for NASA or they are an airline pilot. 'ClockTower' is 'Gulliver'.

Quote

That poor kid Ghost55 came to the site to talk about science

This is a bit of a misrepresentation. He came to say "I'm right and your wrong" and refused to listen to your well thought out answer, or even do a simple internet search.

The problem is, "your well thought answer" is most probably a game of words or some cheap philosophical argument. If his counter-argument was even half-way scientific he was right and you are wrong.

Quote

And I would liked to see the Thork to prove that the Earth is round... and to see him fail here.

What would be the point in that? I know its round.

You only think that you know because you are brainwashed starting from the childhood. If you don't have something to show(pictures are faked) that is quite literally touchable with hands(as we know, light bends and there are optical illusions) then you don't have anything to show about round earth.

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on September 28, 2010, 11:16:10 PM

Quote

That poor kid Ghost55 came to the site to talk about science

This is a bit of a misrepresentation. He came to say "I'm right and your wrong" and refused to listen to your well thought out answer, or even do a simple internet search.

The problem is, "your well thought answer" is most probably a game of words or some cheap philosophical argument. If his counter-argument was even half-way scientific he was right and you are wrong.

That would be incorrect. His argument was scientific and not philosophical. He gave you a link. How about you look at it before making a judgment. How typical of you RE'ers.

What you believe is wrong round earth or flat earth.

The centrifugal forces give the earth the following dimensions with the RET model.
Equatorial Radius
3,963 statute miles
Polar Semi-axis
3,949 statute miles
Radius of sphere of equal area
3,958 statute miles

Not hugely squashed is it? You will also find that RET states the Southern Hemisphere is in fact larger than the Northern one.
This makes an RET earth an oblate spheroid. Not a squashed ball.

Finally you will find the earth's circumference to be 24901.55 miles. Divide that by 24 and you will see the earth spins a little over 1000 miles per hour. Almost 10 times slower than you suggest.

Perhaps a little more research on your own beliefs will be necessary before you start to criticise FET? 

Group hug time?

<hug>

And how much lurking can one reasonably expect an angry 13 y/o to do?

I've known people not much older than that to be among the best lurkers on this site.

I was harsh on Parsifal and EnglishGentleman too. I understand how an angry noob can be annoying. But again I think that is the point. You are supposed to be annoyed when confronted with FES. Its the reason you bother creating a log in and question the theories. If it had no emotional effect on a person, they would ignore it and carry on browsing. And how much lurking can one reasonably expect an angry 13 y/o to do?

I don't quite think the site is here for the purpose of annoying internet travelers. They can feel different emotional affects than just annoyance. I for example, was intrigued when I came by the site. I didn't do angry ranting. I in fact created a thread to try and help explain FE. The mods thought I was just being dumb and making a parody though. 

Anyways, in my experience, ranting angry noobs that come here only have about a 5% chance to actually stay here after 100 posts, and the majority of those posts will just be ranting. People that come here with cool heads typically stay here for much longer. This is why I don't have patience for angry noobs. It is a waste of energy to explain something to someone that doesn't want to hear it, and has zero interest in our community. For those that are nice when they come in, I am more gentle with them because I want them to stay.

Anyways, in my experience, ranting angry noobs that come here only have about a 5% chance to actually stay here after 100 posts, and the majority of those posts will just be ranting. People that come here with cool heads typically stay here for much longer. This is why I don't have patience for angry noobs. It is a waste of energy to explain something to someone that doesn't want to hear it, and has zero interest in our community. For those that are nice when they come in, I am more gentle with them because I want them to stay.

+1

As a FE'er, my response to this thread has to be more nuanced than most. After all, the ultimate aim of this site and its resident FE'ers is to promote and develop Flat Earth Theory. All other considerations are secondary.


That said, I am a great believer in the power this forum has to educate and enlighten. I really do think that a substantial number of people have learned to question themselves and the world around them as a result of the time they spent at this forum, and personally I can think of no higher form of praise.

That said, I am a great believer in the power this forum has to educate and enlighten. I really do think that a substantial number of people have learned to question themselves and the world around them as a result of the time they spent at this forum

I would like to think that people don't question themselves as a result of this forum but they pay more attention to the other people who talk seemingly reasonable story and ask more questions for more background and do some research, so that they can see that other person is able to back up his claims. In short, they don't let itself to be swindled so easily.