Latin Christian Cosmographers

  • 10 Replies
Latin Christian Cosmographers
« on: August 17, 2006, 10:23:24 PM »
Aethicus of Istria (the peninsula in the northern Adriatic between Venice and Croatia) was an Orthodox Christian from western europe who wrote circa AD 650.  Professor Raymond Beazley (whose work 'The Dawn of Modern Geography' published betweem 1897 and 1904 covers the in-depth history of geography from AD 300 to AD 1400 and is the most scholarly book of any I have seen on medieval european geography in english) said that Aethicus's views are basically the same as Cosmas Indicopleustes.  As a matter of fact, Aethicus tends to be radical.  Beazley described the book as "wild."  Among other things, Aethicus states that Alexander the Great travelled to the Arctic and subsequently conducted submarine travels in the Arctic Ocean.  (This antedates the USS Nautilus's arctic voyage of 1959 by more than 2300 years.)

  The 'Cosmography' of Aethicus of Istria is contained in the 'Patrologia Latina,' the authoritative collection of the writings of Church Fathers compiled in the mid-nineteenth century by the French Roman Catholic scholar Jacques Migne and published in Paris as a 383 volume set.  The entire 383 volume collection is now available on a CD-ROM from Harvard University Press for about $400.  

   The 'Cosmography' of Aethicus Istrius does not exist in english translation to my knowledge.  A German publisher issued a hardcopy edition of the book in its original Latin in the 1990's.    

  Aethicus of Istria appears to be the most significant Latin Christian cosmologist ever.

Rabanus Maurus
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2006, 10:27:31 PM »
Rabanus Maurus Magnentius

  The most outspoken voice from northern europe in favor of traditional cosmology that I have come across is the ninth century German flat earther Rabanus Maurus.  He was an expounder of the flat earth cosmology of Aethicus of Istria.  Professor Raymond Beazeley mentioned Rabanus Maurus as an advocate of flat Earthism in the first volume of 'The Dawn of Modern Geography.'  Acording to Beazeley, Rabanus Maurus once got into a controversy with the Bishop of Mainz over the truth or falsity of the existence of the race of dogheaded men who were said to reside in a colony in the Arctic North  (Rabanus Maurus taking the position that they actually existed).

Saint Augustine of Hippo
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2006, 10:33:56 PM »
Saint Augustine of Hippo

  Saint Augustine of Hippo in North Africa who wrote in Latin in the late fourth century Anno Domini believed in the traditional Flat Earth cosmology of the Holy Scriptures.  This fact is attested to in his book 'The City of God' where he states that "antipodes" do not exist (i.e. an attribute of globularism in which a man can supposedly stands at a point diametrically opposite to oneself such that he would be standing literally upside down or antipodal - literally "with feet opposite" and that plants and trees grow downwards and rain falls upwards):

    Saint Augustine wrote in 'The City of God' that "But as to the fable that there are Antipodes, that is to say, men on the opposite side of the earth, where the sun rises when it sets to us, men who walk with their feet opposite ours, that is on no ground credible. And, indeed, it is not affirmed that this has been learned by historical knowledge, but by scientific conjecture, on the ground that the earth is suspended within the concavity of the sky, and that it has as much room on the one side of it as on the other: hence they say that the part which is beneath must also be inhabited. But they do not remark that, although it be supposed or scientifically demonstrated that the world is of a round and spherical form, yet it does not follow that the other side of the earth is bare of water; nor even, though it be bare, does it immediately follow that it is peopled."

  Saint Augustine did not say that the world is globular.  He asserted that even if the world were hypothetically globular that people would not exist in the antipodes, and he is correct without any error whatsoever as the Earth is not globular.

« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2006, 10:36:33 PM »

  The most outspoken Christian flat Earth advocate of the Constantinian era was the late third and early fourth century Latin writer named Lactantius.  The part of Lactantius's treatise 'The Divine Institutes' which concerns the "antipodes" (the mythical belief in a geographical position on a globular world exactly opposite to one's own and in which their feet would therefore be opposite - hence the term antipodal, which was concept anathema to the Church Fathers.  It is illogical for one to disbelieve in antipodes and still believe in a globular world which is one reason why flat Earth cosmography was so prevalent among the Church Fathers and took so long to subside.

  Lactantius was at first a pagan scholar was converted to Christian in the midst of the brutal persecution of Diocletian (of which period Saint George the Dragonslayer was an outstanding figure as Diocletian's biography as well as Saint George's attest to).  In extreme old age, Lactantius was honoured as the principle tutor at the Emperor's Court for the son of Saint Constantine the Great.  He is one of the chief critics in the Early Church of sphericism as well as atomism and other heretical doctrines.  The web link below is a reference to the pertinent section of his treatise "The Divine Institutes":

  The index to 'The Divine Institutes':

Isidore of Seville
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2006, 07:14:48 PM »
Isidore of Seville

  Isidore of Seville, Spain is widely credited with the origin of the flat Earth T/O map - the most common world map of the Middle Ages (the Mappa Mundi of the Middle Ages).  The T/O world map also appears in Orthodox Christian Ikons throughout history.  In many of these ikons, Jesus the Christ is depicted as being held by his Mother,  Virgin Mary.  The world is in Christ's left hand:

  In the layout of a T/O map, a 'T' is located within an 'O.'  The 'O' is a flat circle which represents the Earth (the land).  The 'T' within the flat circle (the 'O') divides it into three parts: 1) Sem (Asia) 2) Ham (Africa) 3) Iaphet (Europa).  Sem occupies half of the circle - the Eastern half.  Ham occupies the southwestern quarter, and Iaphet occupies the northwestern quarter.

  The T/O map is different from the rectangular depiction of the Earth in Cosmas Indicopleustes's 'Christian Topography' written during the century prior to Isidore of Seville.  Significantly, virtually all ancient pagan flat Earth cosmographies unanimously describe the Earth as a flat circle.  The shape of Isidore of Seville's T/O flat Earth does not differ from earlier pre-Christian flat Earth cosmographies.

Saint Ambrose of Milan
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2006, 02:21:05 PM »
Saint Ambrose of Milan, an Orthodox Latin Christian hymnist and cosmographer, authored a flat Earth cosmography entitled the 'Hexaemeron' ("on the Creation of the World") in the fourth century Anno Domini.


17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1317
Augustine Key Source of Corruption and Apostasy
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2009, 06:33:30 PM »

The source of the false teachings of Augustine was pagan philosophy (Plotinus in particular). Augustine corrupted many ancient Christian traditions including the belief of early Christians that the world is flat.

I have for some time desired to dramatically revise what I wrote about Augustine of Hippo for two reasons.  

The first reason is that Augustine did not advocate a flat earth.  Augustine advocated a compromise.  Augustine wrote "although it be supposed or scientifically demonstrated that the world is of a round and spherical form, yet it does not follow that ..."  
He rejected antipodes and simultaneously admitted the possibility that the earth is spherical which is self-contradictory.  

Secondly, Augustine was not a canonical saint.  He was never a father of the Church.  On the contrary, he was the father of the apostate scholastics of the west, and Augustine is the father of western civilization.  
A concise amazon book review of 'Franks, Romans, Feudalism, and Doctrine' by John Romanides which chronicles the unfortunate legacy of Augustine:

"Romanides writes a short concise book (or lecture as it is) on the nature of East/West estrangement. His argument rests on the idea that the west was still Roman (in the sense that Byzantium is the true Roman empire) in theology if not culture till the advent of the Frankish incursion into papal and doctrinal affairs, mainly under the influence of Charlemagne. Romanides sees the East and West more or less uniform until that pivotal point. The Frankish theology was so misguided due to the singular influence of Augustine. Romanides is very critical of Augustine and clearly points out the problems with Augustinian theology and why it was such a break from the patristic viewpoint."

Franks, Romans, Feudalsim and Doctrine
By John Romanides

This excellent book by Romanides clearly shows that other saints of the ancient Christian west such as among others Saint Ambrose of Milan (who authored a flat earth book on the creation) believed a theology which was in unison with the eastern Church very different from Augustine.  

About the year AD 400, Saint John Cassien introduced monasticism into western europe.  This is the monasticism he learned from the Christian monks of Egypt.  Saint John Cassien was an enemy of Augustine.  Their two ways battled for supremacy in the Church of Gaul (France) in the fifth century.
The Frankish nobility bought into augustinianism, but the Gallo-Roman Christian underclasses held to the traditional Christian teachings.  The visigoth rulers of Spain were the cousins of the Franks.  In 711, the Ibero-Roman underclass (and jews) supported the muslims to overthrow the visigoths since the muslims were much the lesser of two evils.  Because of what happened in Spain and to prevent it from happening again, Charles Martel instituted feudalism in France which was a way of controlling the slaves and underclasses.  This system eventually developed into capitalism and colonialism.  All this was accomplished under the banner of augustinianism.  In this system, the Fathers of the Eastern Church were reintrepreted according to Augustine whose writings were considered virtually infallible.  By the late middle ages, the west had also incorporated spherical ideas of ancient greeks courtesy of muslim cosmographers.



  • Flat Earther
  • The Elder Ones
  • 5613
Re: Latin Christian Cosmographers
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2009, 03:35:36 PM »
That's fascinating, I had never had Augustine down as a globularist/Christian apostate. Generally, I considered Aquinas to be the primeval transmitter of pagan notions into church doctrine, but it sounds like it was happening much earlier on. Of course, Plato was one of the fiercests promulgators of globularism, so the insertion of hellenic science and natural philosophical traditions into any system would result in a tendancy toward globularism.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901


17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1317
Re: Latin Christian Cosmographers
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2009, 01:04:34 AM »
Quote from: James
the insertion of hellenic science and natural philosophical traditions into any system would result in a tendancy toward globularism.
I believe you have the right idea.  Arab (i.e. greek) science only accelerated the process which Augustine had begun. 

Also aside from science, Augustine was never a saint.  He was only added to the roster of saints at the  Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople during the 1960's (!) which is of course well after they abandoned their ancient Christian canons and adoptd many modern western customs (such as the papist Gregorian calendar) in the 1920's. 

After I posted these negative comments about Augustine, I received a message from another member of the Orthodox Christian faith who also believes the earth is flat and corresponded with Charles Johnson back in the 1980's (i.e. even before I did which was not until the mid-1990's).  This person informed me that my criticism of Augustine is indeed the Orthodox Christian view of Augustine. 

Also, Michael Azkoul has authored perhaps the definitive work on Augustine entitled 'The Influence of Augustine Upon the Orthodox Church.'

I wanted to add that old Rome and new Rome (Constantinople) were brothers in faith and both equally Roman.  Old Rome was long in a precarious position because of the military power of the barbarian Franks who were heretics because they unfortunately adopted augustinianism as their chief doctrine.  In AD 1009, the German (east frank) emperor forced the papacy to accept his pawn to become pope as Sylvester II.  Thus exactly 1000 years ago in AD 1009 the names of the popes of old Rome ceased to be commemorated in Constantinople.  An open schism came only a few years later in AD 1054.

All subsequent european history is correctly viewed in this light.  The greek revolution of the 1820's which established modern greece was an apostasy from the Orthodox Christian faith, but it was never the less a revolt by Greek speaking Romans.  The turks in their own language call the Greek Orthodox Christians of Turkey the Rum (i.e. Romans).  The french revolution was a revolt of the walloons or Gallo-Roman underclasses against their repressive frankish overlords.  In other words, the left really is right!...

So-called "catholic" (i.e. frankish / western european) historians have always distorted history by falsely claiming their church goes back to the ancient romans.  The truth is that their western schism originated with the heretical franks.

The augustinianism affects so many things.  Among other things, Augustine was to some extent a hater of women which is largely responsible for the history of western repression of women.  Augustine adopted the misogynist ideas of the heretic Tertullian.  David and Mary Ford have done outstanding work by setting the record straight with the writings of the eastern Christian speaker Saint John Chrysostom of Antioch in their definitive book on relations between men and women entitled 'Women and Men in the Early Church:  The Full Views of Saint John Chrysostom.'


17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1317
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2010, 08:58:45 PM »
Augustine's heretical views were largely restricted to the French upper classes until the time of Charlemagne.

Charlemagne's Carolingian renaissance circa A.D. 800 was the occasion of the spread of Augustine's heresies as well as globularism throughout the Frankish realm which included most of western europe which they had conquered from the Romans.

Bede of England (+ A.D. 735) was theologically orthodox and widely respected, but he authored a book entitled 'the Reckoning of Time' which blatantly promoted globularism.  Unfortunately, his widespread fame was posthumously used by the Carolingians to indoctrinate priests with Bede's globularist propaganda since they reprinted his book and required Frankish priests to read it.

The Franks (the French) oppressed the Romans (the vast majority of the population) whom they conquered, and Charlemagne's grandfather Charles Martel initiated the feudal system for precisely the purpose of controlling these slave and lower Roman classes who did rebel against him along with jews and muslims and the East Roman Navy in Spain which resulted in the successful expulsion of the Visigoths from Spain and its conquest by muslims, and the Roman underclasses of Spain and Gaul considered muslim overlords as much preferable to the barbaric and tyrannical French.  They later rebelled against Charles Martel in Gaul (France), but they failed because the feudal system police state had been installed by that time.  That anti-Carolingian revolution in the eighth century was in fact an ancient predecessor of the French revolution of the eighteenth century which was nothing other than a revolt of Roman underclasses against the French overlords who are usurpers. This story is the same in every country in western europe.  See, for example, Eugen Weber's history of the French government's attempt to forcibly transform rural peasants into Frenchmen (which means that most so-called "Frenchmen" today are not originally French at all.  They are nothing short of Romans, and their Frenchness was imposed upon them by their conquerors.

'Peasants Into Frenchmen:  The Modernization of Rural France 1970-1914'
By Eugen Weber

John Romanides wrote that "There is strong evidence that the higher and lower nobility of European Feudalism are mostly descendants of the aforementioned conquerors, and that the serfs are mostly descendants of the conquered Romans."

The franks and their allies developed colonial empires which spread their police state systems and their pseudo-science throughout the world.  A social reaction movement forced the overthrow of the overt colonial form of these governments, and these nobility have joined forces as Bilderbergs.  The European Union is their modern Charlemagnian coalition empire.

This was the state of affairs in Frankish (French) kingdoms.  In my humble opinion, the French revolution is an unfinished revolution which must some day be brought to a conclusion in order to absolutely annihilate that system's oppressive control of society along with other faulty aspects such as its science and theology.

The Franks captured the papacy in A.D. 999 - the year of three popes which included the last Roman pope and the first French pope.  The papacy in 999 became a French institution which initiated crusades, inquisitions, colonialism, expanded slave trade, renaissance (rebirth of paganism) of perverted art which was a continuation of the Carolingian renaissance, and adopted Aristotelian globularist cosmography and eventually heliocentric cosmography.

The Frankish study of science was and is heavily indebted to islamic sciences.  Both systems adhere to a globularist model of the earth.  When islam began, the civilization of the Romans was Christian and overwhelmingly flat earth oriented.  The spread of islam greatly altered this state of affairs and facilitated the rise of Aristotelianism.

Frankish papist writers erroneously call themselves 'Roman Catholics' (Roman Universalists), but they are truly anti-Roman and definitely anti-catholic in the true sense of the word.  Unfortunately, this lie obscures the fact that the ancient Church is completely alien to their "church" and society. 

The early Roman Christians such as the sixth century emperor Justinian (who has been maligned by western fabricators of the Frankish school) were emphatically pro-flat earth. 

'Franks, Romans, Feudalism, and Doctrine'
By John Romanides

Televised Book Review of
'Franks, Romans, Feudalism and Doctrine'

In my opinion, the most consistently overlooked aspect of flat earth history (except by anti-Christians who seek to ridicule Christ) is the endorsement by the early Church of the flatness of the earth.  Frankish "christianity" is a simply a heresy which obscures the simple truth.


17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1317
Re: Latin Christian Cosmographers
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2011, 08:58:09 PM »
Saint Jerome (+420 A.D.)

Saint Jerome was the translator, editor and publisher of Aethicus's flat earth Cosmography.

The following statement is completely erroneous:
Aethicus of Istria ... was an Orthodox Christian from western europe who wrote circa AD 650.

I wrongly assumed the honesty of western scholarship when I posted that.  The truth is that the manuscripts of Aethicus's cosmography assert that he was a pagan traveller from Scythia who lived in the fourth century after Christ, but many western scholars began assuming the book to be a forgery during the nineteenth century.  Rabbanus Maurus asserts that Aethicus lived in the fourth century.

Aethicus's cosmography was edited and published in Latin by Saint Jerome who also lived at that time.  The fact that Saint Jerome endorses a flat earth cosmography is very important in underscoring that the early Christians and Church Fathers did believe that the earth is flat in spite of some prejudiced and ill informed modern opinions that deny what manuscripts such as this one actually say. 

Furthermore, an english translation of the book will tentatively be published by the end of this month: