The Occult - Correcting the Facts

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Lorddave

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The Occult - Correcting the Facts
« on: August 12, 2012, 12:46:19 PM »
A brief discussion with both Hoppy and Ski has alerted me to what I consider a horribly misinformed view on what the Occult is.

The common view of the occult is dark rituals, witchcraft, conspiring with the Devil for power, sacrificing cats and using blood of virgins.  Maybe adding in some skulls and chanting to create supernatural effects.   Magic is considered part of the Occult as you know it.  But is that really the occult?  No.

What I described is simply western religion looked at through a dark lens.
Chanting to Satan for power is the same as chanting to God for power.  "Hear us o lord, give us the strength..."  It may have a usually happier tone but it's still chanting to a higher power for some of it's power.  You want God to give you power. 

Sacrificing animals.  This one always get's my goat.  In popular views of the occult, it's not unusual to see witches kill birds or cats or even humans.  Yet this is exactly what Jews did to appease God.  They sacrificed lambs, cows, sheep, and anything else they felt was of value.  All to appease God and absolve themselves of sin.  Jesus came down and was sacrificed (human sacrifice of a virgin) and that's the whole basis of Christianity. 

Magic.  This one is also pretty funny.  When someone prays to God to get a job, it's considered very christian.  When someone prays to Satan to make someone give them a job, it's evil.  There is no difference.  In both cases you are asking a higher power to manipulate people or events to your benefit. 

Worse yet, the line between saint and witch is based purely on gender lines as well as who you claim gave you the power.  If Moses was a woman, he'd have been burned as a witch for making it rain frogs and turning water into blood and moving a whole ocean.  Joan of Arc didn't even do anything close yet she was labeled a witch.  But Moses was a man and because he said the word "God" every once in a while, he was made a prophet and should be revered as a holy man.

The Pentagram.  Seriously?  The Devil?  This is a symbol used by Christians since at least the 14th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram#Christianity
You're just taking it and making it sound evil.



So what is the real occult?
The real occult is self action.  I, being the Devil, don't give people power.  I'm very clear about that.  The power of the occult comes strictly from the person.  More accurately it's wisdom mixed with confidence.  Doing something the user finds frightening helps to build resistance to that fear and makes them stronger. 
The real occult is also about self problem solving.  Want someone to give you a job, use what you have to get what you want.  Sometimes this means flashing some cleavage to the male interviewer.  Sometimes it means lying on your resume.  Sometimes it means practicing your interview until you're no longer afraid of it.

In any case, all the power of the occult is about finding power within yourself.  Making things you want to happen yourself.  And if that involves relaxing yourself with candles, then that's what you do.  But don't presume that the false "killing things to Satan" is real occult.  It's nothing more than an invention of western religions based on western religions.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Mr Pseudonym

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Re: The Occult - Correcting the Facts
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2012, 04:44:11 PM »
I think Wikipedia gives a far less rambling definition.
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

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Lorddave

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Re: The Occult - Correcting the Facts
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 04:52:30 PM »
I think Wikipedia gives a far less rambling definition.
And where does Wikipedia get its sources?
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Rushy

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Re: The Occult - Correcting the Facts
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 05:21:08 PM »
You fail to recognize that the Devil for all intents and purposes is considered an evil being. Praying to an evil being is obviously going to be considered evil when directly compared to praying to a being recognized as morally good such as a monotheistic God.

Its like Skyrim, really. The Divines are considered good gods and no one hates people who pray to them, (well the aldmeri and Talos yada yada, skipping over that) but the Daedra are considered evil (for the most part, Meridia is kinda good whatever).

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Lorddave

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Re: The Occult - Correcting the Facts
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 05:26:32 PM »
You fail to recognize that the Devil for all intents and purposes is considered an evil being.
By what measure are we saying who is or isn't evil?
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Rushy

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Re: The Occult - Correcting the Facts
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2012, 05:36:00 PM »
You fail to recognize that the Devil for all intents and purposes is considered an evil being.
By what measure are we saying who is or isn't evil?

Rather than looking at the deity, we can simply look at the church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan

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The Nine Satanic Statements[14]

The Nine Satanic Statements outline what "Satan" represents in the Church of Satan:[15]

    Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence.
    Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams.
    Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit.
    Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates.
    Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek.
    Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires.
    Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development", has become the most vicious animal of all.
    Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
    Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years.

Based on these Satan, can easily be defined as overall evil. By representing all sin, he represents all that is wrong in the world.

As opposed to the Catholic Church, which states:

Quote
The Christian faithful are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor.

If the Church of Satan embodies greed, it must never help anyone. I would consider that quite evil. Would you not?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 05:43:47 PM by Irushwithscvs »

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Lorddave

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Re: The Occult - Correcting the Facts
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 06:02:24 PM »
Murder often doesn't lead to gratification.  Therefore, the 8th statement is a contradiction.

Also:
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The Christian faithful are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor.
Not assisting the poor is not greed, it's apathy.  Plus, they could be poor for a good reason.  Is it evil to ignore the plight of a man whose life choices has brought him to ruin?
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Rushy

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Re: The Occult - Correcting the Facts
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2012, 07:45:44 PM »
Murder often doesn't lead to gratification. 

Incorrect.

Is it evil to ignore the plight of a man whose life choices has brought him to ruin?

You tell me. After all, it is you that supports socialism.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: The Occult - Correcting the Facts
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2012, 08:17:34 PM »
Based on these Satan, can easily be defined as overall evil. By representing all sin, he represents all that is wrong in the world.

As opposed to the Catholic Church, which states:

Quote
The Christian faithful are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor.

If the Church of Satan embodies greed, it must never help anyone. I would consider that quite evil. Would you not?

You tell me. After all, it is you that supports socialism.

Oh, the irony.

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Rushy

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Re: The Occult - Correcting the Facts
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2012, 10:25:25 PM »
Oh, the irony.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: The Occult - Correcting the Facts
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2012, 11:12:20 PM »
Nice try, but I have already lectured FES extensively on the true meaning of irony.  Don't be so inconceivable.  I was really just commenting on how so many conservative platforms stand in stark contrast to Christianity, and yet conservatives tend to be the most religious of all.