Elizabethan World view Debate

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ClockTower

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #90 on: September 15, 2010, 11:23:25 AM »
My source corroborates the thesis (not my thesis; I couched the proposition with the qualifier "reportedly") that Noah lived for a long time.

The Gilgamesh does not postulate that Noah attained immortality using the magic plant. It seems you are poorly read, or forgetful.

What is your evidence that Gilgamesh is not a historical document? As far as Noah's biographical details go, it can be cross-referenced against the Epic of Atrahasis, which reports similar events.
As long as you do maintain that Noah lived longer based better health care such as that of the Elizabethan era, then you post is off topic, and so ignored.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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James

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #91 on: September 15, 2010, 11:27:17 AM »
I'm not sure I understand.

We are discussing humourous medicine in general, and I am claiming that it was Noah's exploitation of medical humourism (since he would not have had access to other forms) which kept him alive for so long. It is very relevant!
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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ClockTower

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #92 on: September 15, 2010, 11:31:47 AM »
I'm not sure I understand.

We are discussing humourous medicine in general, and I am claiming that it was Noah's exploitation of medical humourism (since he would not have had access to other forms) which kept him alive for so long. It is very relevant!
Please support your claim that he had access to such medicine, and nothing more--with evidence, not stories. Your speculations are irrelevant.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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James

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #93 on: September 15, 2010, 11:43:52 AM »
Humour me.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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ClockTower

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #94 on: September 15, 2010, 12:03:54 PM »
Humour me.
No. As I suspected, you continue to make outlandish claims. For shame.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Lorddave

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #95 on: September 15, 2010, 12:04:43 PM »
If Noah lived that long, his body would have deteriorated far beyond usefulness.
I'm sorry but medicine doesn't slow down the aging process.  And unless he found a way to constantly rejuvenate his cells, he would have had problems moving by the age of 150.
Gone.

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EireEngineer

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #96 on: September 15, 2010, 12:31:49 PM »
Im still waiting for the humeral explanation for the ruptured appendix I had, but no answers have been forthcoming lol
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

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markjo

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #97 on: September 15, 2010, 01:06:40 PM »
If Noah lived that long, his body would have deteriorated far beyond usefulness.
I'm sorry but medicine doesn't slow down the aging process.  And unless he found a way to constantly rejuvenate his cells, he would have had problems moving by the age of 150.

Not necessarily.  Some bible scholars contend that the reason for the extreme longevity of people early in the bible is because God made Adam and Eve genetically perfect (this also explains the lack of a sibling marriage taboo) and the general lack of diseases at the time.  After many generations (probably sometime after the time of Noah), mutations started to be introduced into gene pool and diseases began to become more common, thereby reducing life spans.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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trig

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #98 on: September 15, 2010, 01:16:49 PM »
I'm not sure I understand.

We are discussing humourous medicine in general, and I am claiming that it was Noah's exploitation of medical humourism (since he would not have had access to other forms) which kept him alive for so long. It is very relevant!
So, you are not Christian or Jewish and still you believe the myth of Noah is true. I must admit I am surprised. I thought the only reason on Earth that someone ever had to believe in Noah's myth was to uphold the literal truth of the Bible.

We are still waiting for any reason at all to believe Noah's or Ut'Naishtim's myth is true in any sense at all. And which of the two very different stories is right? They cannot be both right. Noah supposedly survived an Universal Flood, which included all landmasses on Earth. Ut'Naishtim's flood was a river flood. Noah shipped a couple of each of more than 16000 species, (called kinds in the Bible) while Ut'Naishtim embarked his own livestock, nothing more. Noah was one of only eight survivors of the human race, no mention about the almost total destruction of mankind is to be found the Epic of Gilgamesh. No mention of the age of Noah is given in the Bible (the famous 900 years are a calculation made by religious fanatics) but Ut'Naishtim was granted immortality.

So, which of the stories is right? Which "Noah" are you talking about? Are you saying that Ut'Naishtim's immortality is an indication of the longevity of most people some 4000 years ago?

But most importantly, what is your argument about humoural "medicine" and the mean longevity of humans some 4000 years ago?

Or are you just trolling?

and... PS. Why do you consider that a story in which people and snakes are granted immortality is historically correct?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 01:24:43 PM by trig »

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Part of the Problem

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #99 on: September 15, 2010, 02:44:57 PM »
What is your evidence that Gilgamesh is not a historical document?

What kind of demonstration could possibly be offered? What form would that sort of evidence even take?
By eliminating all present contradicting possibilities you would arrive at the present truth. It's impossible to arrive at a future truth.

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17 November

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #100 on: October 16, 2010, 12:37:05 AM »
DIET

The metabolism of food has three aspects:  digestion, assimilation, and residue.

1)  DIGESTION - Food and drink enter through the mouth.  Digestion is fragmentation or breakdown of food as small as possible.  This is accomplished by heat, the vital power of the body.  The body cooks food beginning with mastication and saliva in the mouth and is continued in the stomach and the small intestine.  The number of different kinds of enzymes that accomplish this breakdown of food by heating is well beyond the knowledge of modern medicine which only has knowledge of a handful of them.  The body is much more complicated than the cosmos.

2)  ASSIMILATION - This digestive process leads to the liver.  The liver is a factory that sends these foods to become the different parts of the body.  The best parts become blood.  The four humours are manufactured in the liver.  As an essential organ, the liver equals the heart.  Without a liver, no one can survive even for a short time.

3) RESIDUE - The unuseable parts are dispensed to the large intestine. 

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THE TEMPERAMENTS OF FOOD

The two most essential temperaments are heat and cold.  All foods, drinks, and herbs can be classified as either hot or cold. 

HOT FOODS SPEED OR INCREASE BODILY METABOLISM. 
COLD FOODS SLOW BODILY METABOLISM. 
 
Furthermore, each food can be classed according to one of four degrees of intensity of either hot or cold. A food or drink of the first degree temperament is one that is mild and is mostly reacted upon by the body instead of influencing the body.  Water is an example of a first degree cold drink.  Fourth degree foods, herbs, or drinks are the poisons.  Fourth degree hot foods speed up metabolism faster than the rates which can accomodate life.  Fourth degree cold foods slow or stop bodily metabolism to a rate too slow to sustain life.  In a proper diet, hot and cold foods balance each other.  This concept even applies to the fourth degrees as this is how one can logically discern an antidote to a poison.  Unfortunately, most nutrition systems are classified according to nutrients rather than the way the foods assist the body.  If we select foods according to their degree of heat or coldness (whether they speed or slow metabolism), then our diet can assist the metabolism of the body.  One should eat to live rather than live to eat. 


HEATING FOODS

Meat and Fish: lamb, liver, chicken, eggs, goat (male), fish (general).

Dairy Products: sheep's milk, cream cheese, cream, clarified butter (ghee).

Vegetables and Beans: beet, radish, onion, mustard greens, red lentils, white lentils, kidney beans, leek, eggplant, chick peas, red pepper, green pepper, carrot seed, squash.

Fruits: peach, plum, orange, lime, mulberries, red raisins, green raisins, olive, ripe grapes, pumpkin, all dried fruits.

Seeds and Nuts: sesame, almond, pistachio, apricot kernels, walnut, pine nuts.

Grains: thingrain rice, basmati rice.

Oils: sesame oil, corn oil, castor oil, mustard oil Be ~ gts black tea, coffee.

Herbs: cinnamon, cardamom, cloves, fenugreek, ginger, celery seed, anise seed, rue, saffron~ garam masala (blend), curry powder (blend).

Other: honey, rock candy, all sweet things, salt, all modern medicine.


COOLING FOODS

Meat: rabbit, goat (female), beef.

Dairy Products: cow's milk, mother's milk, goat's milk, butter, buttermilk, dried cheeses, margarine.

Vegetables and Beans: lettuce, celery, sprouts (general),  zucchini, spinach, cabbage, okra, cauliflower, broccoli, white potato, sweet potato, carrot, cucumber, soybeans, tomato, turnip, peas, beans (general).

Fruits: melons (general), pear, coconut, fig, banana, pomegranate.

Seeds and Nuts: none.

Grains: brown rice, thick grain rice.

Oils: sunflower oil, coconut oil.

Beverages: green teas.

Herbs: coriander (dry), dill, henna.

Other: refined sugar, vinegar, bitter things, sour things.


When food is not eaten according to this natural metabolic principle, the foods are not digested properly which leads to accumulation of superfluous substances which will eventually reach a limit called the healing crisis.  The healing crisis involves fever which is a heat that cooks down the excess matter in order to eliminate it from the body.  This is exclusively accomplished in five ways different ways which include mucus, vomiting, and diarrhea (which is a rapid evacuation from the body of toxic substances).  Unfortunately, western medicine attempts to control diarrhea, stop vomiting, and stem nausea with drugs.  Thus, western medicine attempts to hault the very processes the body uses to eliminate toxic substances and turns these substances and chemical drugs inward to the body creating unnecessary complications.

The basic diet of the majority of americans (milk, beef, potatoes, salads, white sugars, cheese, butter...) is virtually all cold foods.  Excess cold foods leads to imbalance of the phlegm humour which produces diseases common to americans such as arthritis, headaches, constipation.  When this trend reaches an advanced stage (an excess of the black bile humour) diseases such as cancer and emphysema develop.

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17 November

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #101 on: October 16, 2010, 12:40:32 AM »
Im still waiting for the humeral explanation for the ruptured appendix I had, but no answers have been forthcoming

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=41927.msg1047580#msg1047580

Having read more of Chishti's book, I added the following comment to the link above of which the idea is explained on pages 31 and 32 of  'The Traditional Healer's Handbook' which illustrates the objective and balanced nature of the book (quite fitting in a book that emphasizes balance):

"Emergency medicine is one of the most legitimate and impressive achievements of modern western medicine.
Appendicitis is a form of medical emergency."
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 05:24:00 PM by 17 November »

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Lorddave

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #102 on: October 16, 2010, 12:46:16 AM »
And how is each food categorized?

Why is beef a cooling food and not a heating food?
Gone.

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trig

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #103 on: October 20, 2010, 05:54:01 AM »
Im still waiting for the humeral explanation for the ruptured appendix I had, but no answers have been forthcoming

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=41927.msg1047580#msg1047580
You must have so many serious side effects from your appendectomy, EireEngineer. I can only assume your now non-existent appendix is about to rupture again, and you have infections all over your body. I guess people all over the world are now seeing the terrible effects of that barbaric surgery and getting so many infections that very soon now it will be all over the news.

Oh, wait, my brother had an appendectomy almost 30 years ago, so he must be almost dead by now. Let me go and check and I will keep you posted.

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EireEngineer

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #104 on: October 25, 2010, 03:37:27 AM »
Actually, I never had to have the surgery.  It ruptured so bad that it completely necrotized and dissolved. I did have to have a couple of drains put in (more painful than having surgery) and pretty massive doses of anti-biotics.  Other than that, I just had to sit there until things calmed down.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

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trig

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Re: Elizabethan World view Debate
« Reply #105 on: October 25, 2010, 08:20:32 AM »
Actually, I never had to have the surgery.  It ruptured so bad that it completely necrotized and dissolved. I did have to have a couple of drains put in (more painful than having surgery) and pretty massive doses of anti-biotics.  Other than that, I just had to sit there until things calmed down.
You must be pretty happy your doctors did not waste time with humorous medicine and started antibiotic treatment immediately (and real cleaning with lots of water, not cleaning of the soul). There is very good evidence that the bacteria from the ruptured appendix usually cause peritonitis, which has no cure at all in humorous medicine. And advanced peritonitis is usually lethal.

What these "FE'rs" do not like to talk about is that old pre-scientific knowledge had a very tenuous understanding of the causes and effects (in this case, of diseases) and therefore could not make the link between bacteria and appendicitis. Without an established cause, there could be only an anecdotal relationship between the disease and the treatment.