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"Praying for strength"

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Ocius

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"Praying for strength"
« on: August 19, 2010, 03:23:15 PM »
Christians always talk about how they don't pray for material goods, or for God to intervene directly and make his/her life better. I always hear this; that they pray for the "strength" or "willpower" to make it through life's challenges. Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something? And to be honest, I'd trade a stack of money for a healthy dose of willpower any given day. Do any Christians have any comments on this?
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Raist

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2010, 09:32:37 PM »
Quote from: Fortuna on August 19, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
Christians always talk about how they don't pray for material goods, or for God to intervene directly and make his/her life better. I always hear this; that they pray for the "strength" or "willpower" to make it through life's challenges. Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something? And to be honest, I'd trade a stack of money for a healthy dose of willpower any given day. Do any Christians have any comments on this?

What is wrong with selfishness?
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Ocius

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2010, 01:18:39 AM »
CR90, come back so we can argue.
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Raist

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2010, 09:21:11 AM »
Quote from: Raist on August 20, 2010, 09:32:37 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 19, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
Christians always talk about how they don't pray for material goods, or for God to intervene directly and make his/her life better. I always hear this; that they pray for the "strength" or "willpower" to make it through life's challenges. Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something? And to be honest, I'd trade a stack of money for a healthy dose of willpower any given day. Do any Christians have any comments on this?

What is wrong with selfishness?
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SpeakerOfTruth

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2010, 01:26:32 PM »
Quote from: Fortuna on August 19, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
Christians always talk about how they don't pray for material goods, or for God to intervene directly and make his/her life better. I always hear this; that they pray for the "strength" or "willpower" to make it through life's challenges. Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something? And to be honest, I'd trade a stack of money for a healthy dose of willpower any given day. Do any Christians have any comments on this?

I think people pray for strength because something so intangible is something they can convince themselves that they've received.

It's a bit harder to kid yourself that God's given you that sports car you've always wanted.
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Ocius

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2010, 02:48:17 PM »
Quote from: Raist on August 20, 2010, 09:32:37 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 19, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
Christians always talk about how they don't pray for material goods, or for God to intervene directly and make his/her life better. I always hear this; that they pray for the "strength" or "willpower" to make it through life's challenges. Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something? And to be honest, I'd trade a stack of money for a healthy dose of willpower any given day. Do any Christians have any comments on this?

What is wrong with selfishness?

Irrelevant. Make a new thread if you want to discuss that.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2010, 02:56:52 PM by Fortuna »
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Ocius

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2010, 02:51:20 PM »
Quote from: SpeakerOfTruth on August 21, 2010, 01:26:32 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 19, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
Christians always talk about how they don't pray for material goods, or for God to intervene directly and make his/her life better. I always hear this; that they pray for the "strength" or "willpower" to make it through life's challenges. Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something? And to be honest, I'd trade a stack of money for a healthy dose of willpower any given day. Do any Christians have any comments on this?

I think people pray for strength because something so intangible is something they can convince themselves that they've received.

It's a bit harder to kid yourself that God's given you that sports car you've always wanted.

Right, but that's not the problem. The problem is that they are in fact still asking God to give them something. Something that is arguably even more desirable than material goods.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2010, 02:57:20 PM by Fortuna »
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Nomad

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2010, 02:57:11 PM »
It's kind of irrelevant that they would be self conscious about their praying.  Whatever happened to "Ask, and ye shall receive"?  I'm still waiting for some mountains to move; I'm sure someone out there has faith at least as large as a grain of rice.
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Raist

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2010, 04:39:56 PM »
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 02:51:20 PM
Quote from: SpeakerOfTruth on August 21, 2010, 01:26:32 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 19, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
Christians always talk about how they don't pray for material goods, or for God to intervene directly and make his/her life better. I always hear this; that they pray for the "strength" or "willpower" to make it through life's challenges. Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something? And to be honest, I'd trade a stack of money for a healthy dose of willpower any given day. Do any Christians have any comments on this?

I think people pray for strength because something so intangible is something they can convince themselves that they've received.

It's a bit harder to kid yourself that God's given you that sports car you've always wanted.

Right, but that's not the problem. The problem is that they are in fact still asking God to give them something. Something that is arguably even more desirable than material goods.

You are supposed to pray for things. I really don't see your problem.
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SpeakerOfTruth

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2010, 04:55:40 PM »
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 02:51:20 PM
Right, but that's not the problem. The problem is that they are in fact still asking God to give them something. Something that is arguably even more desirable than material goods.

I don't think praying for selfish gain is the problem here. The problem is people's arrogance in thinking that of all the millions of prayers made each day, a divine ruler will place any importance on answering theirs.

It's like when at award ceremonies you see people thanking God for their success. It's this that REALLY offends - as if God is helping anyone win awards when children are starving to death every day.

Ultimately though, people can pray for whatever they want, selfish or otherwise. And if someone is praying selfishly, that's really a wider issue regarding that person's personality that needs to be delt with. No harm will ever come from the act of praying selfishly, as prayers can never be answered because God doesn't exist.
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Ocius

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2010, 06:56:58 PM »
Quote from: Raist on August 21, 2010, 04:39:56 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 02:51:20 PM
Quote from: SpeakerOfTruth on August 21, 2010, 01:26:32 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 19, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
Christians always talk about how they don't pray for material goods, or for God to intervene directly and make his/her life better. I always hear this; that they pray for the "strength" or "willpower" to make it through life's challenges. Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something? And to be honest, I'd trade a stack of money for a healthy dose of willpower any given day. Do any Christians have any comments on this?

I think people pray for strength because something so intangible is something they can convince themselves that they've received.

It's a bit harder to kid yourself that God's given you that sports car you've always wanted.

Right, but that's not the problem. The problem is that they are in fact still asking God to give them something. Something that is arguably even more desirable than material goods.

You are supposed to pray for things. I really don't see your problem.

No, you're not supposed to pray for material goods like money or a new house.
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Raist

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2010, 07:34:58 PM »
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 06:56:58 PM
Quote from: Raist on August 21, 2010, 04:39:56 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 02:51:20 PM
Quote from: SpeakerOfTruth on August 21, 2010, 01:26:32 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 19, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
Christians always talk about how they don't pray for material goods, or for God to intervene directly and make his/her life better. I always hear this; that they pray for the "strength" or "willpower" to make it through life's challenges. Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something? And to be honest, I'd trade a stack of money for a healthy dose of willpower any given day. Do any Christians have any comments on this?

I think people pray for strength because something so intangible is something they can convince themselves that they've received.

It's a bit harder to kid yourself that God's given you that sports car you've always wanted.

Right, but that's not the problem. The problem is that they are in fact still asking God to give them something. Something that is arguably even more desirable than material goods.

You are supposed to pray for things. I really don't see your problem.

No, you're not supposed to pray for material goods like money or a new house.

Who invented that rule? You pray for your needs, whether you pray for the strength to get them, or for them to fall out of the sky. It's just more logical to pray for the ability to get something, because in life you very rarely get something for free.
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Ocius

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2010, 07:47:25 PM »
Quote from: Raist on August 21, 2010, 07:34:58 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 06:56:58 PM
Quote from: Raist on August 21, 2010, 04:39:56 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 02:51:20 PM
Quote from: SpeakerOfTruth on August 21, 2010, 01:26:32 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 19, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
Christians always talk about how they don't pray for material goods, or for God to intervene directly and make his/her life better. I always hear this; that they pray for the "strength" or "willpower" to make it through life's challenges. Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something? And to be honest, I'd trade a stack of money for a healthy dose of willpower any given day. Do any Christians have any comments on this?

I think people pray for strength because something so intangible is something they can convince themselves that they've received.

It's a bit harder to kid yourself that God's given you that sports car you've always wanted.

Right, but that's not the problem. The problem is that they are in fact still asking God to give them something. Something that is arguably even more desirable than material goods.

You are supposed to pray for things. I really don't see your problem.

No, you're not supposed to pray for material goods like money or a new house.

Who invented that rule? You pray for your needs, whether you pray for the strength to get them, or for them to fall out of the sky. It's just more logical to pray for the ability to get something, because in life you very rarely get something for free.

It's not a rule as far as I know, but I always hear Christians say that you aren't supposed to.
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Raist

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2010, 07:54:23 PM »
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 07:47:25 PM
Quote from: Raist on August 21, 2010, 07:34:58 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 06:56:58 PM
Quote from: Raist on August 21, 2010, 04:39:56 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 02:51:20 PM
Quote from: SpeakerOfTruth on August 21, 2010, 01:26:32 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 19, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
Christians always talk about how they don't pray for material goods, or for God to intervene directly and make his/her life better. I always hear this; that they pray for the "strength" or "willpower" to make it through life's challenges. Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something? And to be honest, I'd trade a stack of money for a healthy dose of willpower any given day. Do any Christians have any comments on this?

I think people pray for strength because something so intangible is something they can convince themselves that they've received.

It's a bit harder to kid yourself that God's given you that sports car you've always wanted.

Right, but that's not the problem. The problem is that they are in fact still asking God to give them something. Something that is arguably even more desirable than material goods.

You are supposed to pray for things. I really don't see your problem.

No, you're not supposed to pray for material goods like money or a new house.

Who invented that rule? You pray for your needs, whether you pray for the strength to get them, or for them to fall out of the sky. It's just more logical to pray for the ability to get something, because in life you very rarely get something for free.

It's not a rule as far as I know, but I always hear Christians say that you aren't supposed to.

So you basically made a thread saying some christians are hypocritical? It took you this long to figure that out?
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Ocius

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2010, 08:05:02 PM »
No Raist, if you had read the OP, you would have realized that this thread was created for a discussion on prayer. But it doesn't look like there are any Christians left on the site.
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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2010, 08:13:00 PM »
Fortuna, are you aware that Christianity is not the only religion that prays?
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Ocius

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2010, 09:54:36 PM »
Quote from: Benjamin Franklin on August 21, 2010, 08:13:00 PM
Fortuna, are you aware that Christianity is not the only religion that prays?

Christianity is the predominant religion in America, so it has the most relevance.
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parsec

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2010, 10:58:41 PM »
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 09:54:36 PM
Quote from: Benjamin Franklin on August 21, 2010, 08:13:00 PM
Fortuna, are you aware that Christianity is not the only religion that prays?

Christianity is the predominant religion in America, so it has the most relevance.

Fortuna, are you aware that there are 22 times more people living outside the United States?
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Ocius

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2010, 11:04:53 PM »
Quote from: parsec on August 21, 2010, 10:58:41 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 09:54:36 PM
Quote from: Benjamin Franklin on August 21, 2010, 08:13:00 PM
Fortuna, are you aware that Christianity is not the only religion that prays?

Christianity is the predominant religion in America, so it has the most relevance.

Fortuna, are you aware that there are 22 times more people living outside the United States?

I live in the United States, so I can only speak for those Christians I see on Tv, read about in articles or talk to in person.
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parsec

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2010, 11:07:41 PM »
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 11:04:53 PM
Quote from: parsec on August 21, 2010, 10:58:41 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 09:54:36 PM
Quote from: Benjamin Franklin on August 21, 2010, 08:13:00 PM
Fortuna, are you aware that Christianity is not the only religion that prays?

Christianity is the predominant religion in America, so it has the most relevance.

Fortuna, are you aware that there are 22 times more people living outside the United States?

I live in the United States, so I can only speak for those Christians I see on Tv, read about in articles or talk to in person.
Welcome to the Internet. It offers live TV streams, news articles from places all around the world. As for talking in person, I would suggest you apply for a passport once you reach adulthood.
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Ocius

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2010, 11:16:46 PM »
Quote from: parsec on August 21, 2010, 11:07:41 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 11:04:53 PM
Quote from: parsec on August 21, 2010, 10:58:41 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 09:54:36 PM
Quote from: Benjamin Franklin on August 21, 2010, 08:13:00 PM
Fortuna, are you aware that Christianity is not the only religion that prays?

Christianity is the predominant religion in America, so it has the most relevance.

Fortuna, are you aware that there are 22 times more people living outside the United States?

I live in the United States, so I can only speak for those Christians I see on Tv, read about in articles or talk to in person.
Welcome to the Internet. It offers live TV streams, news articles from places all around the world. As for talking in person, I would suggest you apply for a passport once you reach adulthood.

I have a passport and have been to France, Spain and Mexico. Unfortunately I don't speak either French or Spanish.
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parsec

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2010, 11:24:49 PM »
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 11:16:46 PM
Quote from: parsec on August 21, 2010, 11:07:41 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 11:04:53 PM
Quote from: parsec on August 21, 2010, 10:58:41 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 09:54:36 PM
Quote from: Benjamin Franklin on August 21, 2010, 08:13:00 PM
Fortuna, are you aware that Christianity is not the only religion that prays?

Christianity is the predominant religion in America, so it has the most relevance.

Fortuna, are you aware that there are 22 times more people living outside the United States?

I live in the United States, so I can only speak for those Christians I see on Tv, read about in articles or talk to in person.
Welcome to the Internet. It offers live TV streams, news articles from places all around the world. As for talking in person, I would suggest you apply for a passport once you reach adulthood.

I have a passport and have been to France, Spain and Mexico. Unfortunately I don't speak either French or Spanish.
Have you actually tried conversing with the local populace in English?
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Ocius

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2010, 11:30:53 PM »
Quote from: parsec on August 21, 2010, 11:24:49 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 11:16:46 PM
Quote from: parsec on August 21, 2010, 11:07:41 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 11:04:53 PM
Quote from: parsec on August 21, 2010, 10:58:41 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 09:54:36 PM
Quote from: Benjamin Franklin on August 21, 2010, 08:13:00 PM
Fortuna, are you aware that Christianity is not the only religion that prays?

Christianity is the predominant religion in America, so it has the most relevance.

Fortuna, are you aware that there are 22 times more people living outside the United States?

I live in the United States, so I can only speak for those Christians I see on Tv, read about in articles or talk to in person.
Welcome to the Internet. It offers live TV streams, news articles from places all around the world. As for talking in person, I would suggest you apply for a passport once you reach adulthood.

I have a passport and have been to France, Spain and Mexico. Unfortunately I don't speak either French or Spanish.
Have you actually tried conversing with the local populace in English?

Your cynicism is extremely irritating. Is there anything wrong with you?
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parsec

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2010, 11:32:36 PM »
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 11:30:53 PM
Quote from: parsec on August 21, 2010, 11:24:49 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 11:16:46 PM
Quote from: parsec on August 21, 2010, 11:07:41 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 11:04:53 PM
Quote from: parsec on August 21, 2010, 10:58:41 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 09:54:36 PM
Quote from: Benjamin Franklin on August 21, 2010, 08:13:00 PM
Fortuna, are you aware that Christianity is not the only religion that prays?

Christianity is the predominant religion in America, so it has the most relevance.

Fortuna, are you aware that there are 22 times more people living outside the United States?

I live in the United States, so I can only speak for those Christians I see on Tv, read about in articles or talk to in person.
Welcome to the Internet. It offers live TV streams, news articles from places all around the world. As for talking in person, I would suggest you apply for a passport once you reach adulthood.

I have a passport and have been to France, Spain and Mexico. Unfortunately I don't speak either French or Spanish.
Have you actually tried conversing with the local populace in English?

Your cynicism is extremely irritating. Is there anything wrong with you?

Your trolling is weak.
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Ocius

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2010, 11:33:51 PM »
Lol I'm not trying to troll you. Sorry if you took it that way.
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parsec

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2010, 11:37:21 PM »
Then, it simply means you are dumb and you post dumb things.
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Ocius

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2010, 11:38:28 PM »
Quote from: parsec on August 21, 2010, 11:37:21 PM
Then, it simply means you are dumb and you post dumb things.

No, it's a legitimate question.
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2010, 11:59:00 PM »
Quote from: Fortuna on August 21, 2010, 02:48:17 PM
Quote from: Raist on August 20, 2010, 09:32:37 PM
Quote from: Fortuna on August 19, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
Christians always talk about how they don't pray for material goods, or for God to intervene directly and make his/her life better. I always hear this; that they pray for the "strength" or "willpower" to make it through life's challenges. Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something? And to be honest, I'd trade a stack of money for a healthy dose of willpower any given day. Do any Christians have any comments on this?

What is wrong with selfishness?

Irrelevant. Make a new thread if you want to discuss that.

It is rather relevant to what you asked about...

You said:
Quote
Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something?

it seems you imply that being selfish has some sort of connotation to Christians. If we don't explore this, then your OP is completely pointless.
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Muphci

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2010, 07:53:14 AM »
Excuse me if this has been covered (I didn't read the entire thread), but isn't Satanism all about honoring the selfishness in yourself and giving into it? If so, I imagine being called selfish would deeply insult a Christian who knew this.
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Midnight

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Re: "Praying for strength"
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2010, 08:22:41 PM »
Quote from: Fortuna on August 19, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
Christians always talk about how they don't pray for material goods, or for God to intervene directly and make his/her life better. I always hear this; that they pray for the "strength" or "willpower" to make it through life's challenges. Isn't this still a selfish act? Aren't they still asking for something? And to be honest, I'd trade a stack of money for a healthy dose of willpower any given day. Do any Christians have any comments on this?

All religion is a symptom of social disease.
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Quote from: Raist on September 06, 2010, 07:48:56 PM
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.
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