Gravity/gravitation?

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Hazbollah

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Gravity/gravitation?
« on: August 15, 2010, 01:18:08 PM »
Right, so the Flat Earth is accelerated upwards by the UA. You Fe'ers say that gravity is an absurd concept as no one  can explain what it actually is. However, you lot also say that the moon (which is also flat apparently, which makes it having a gravitational pull rather difficult) and stars exert an (albeit small) gravitational pull. How, then, can you chop and choose what has gravity and what doesn't?
Always check your tackle- Caerphilly school of Health. If I see an innuendo in my post, I'll be sure to whip it out.

Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2010, 01:19:38 PM »
Right, so the Flat Earth is accelerated upwards by the UA. You Fe'ers say that gravity is an absurd concept as no one  can explain what it actually is. However, you lot also say that the moon (which is also flat apparently, which makes it having a gravitational pull rather difficult) and stars exert an (albeit small) gravitational pull. How, then, can you chop and choose what has gravity and what doesn't?


because theyre awesome.
simple
English is not my mother tongue, please consider this when reading my posts.
Quote from: anteater7171
Quote
Why is australia excluded?
Because it is a lie propagated by the conspiracy (like gravity or sustained spaceflight).
I lived a lie

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Hazbollah

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2010, 02:15:59 AM »
Anyone?
Always check your tackle- Caerphilly school of Health. If I see an innuendo in my post, I'll be sure to whip it out.

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Vongeo

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2010, 03:37:20 PM »
The existence of gravity is still in question in FE theory.
Vongeo is a wanker, he wears a wanker hat; he always smells like urine and he thinks the Earth is flat.

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2010, 03:39:48 PM »
Right, so the Flat Earth is accelerated upwards by the UA. You Fe'ers say that gravity is an absurd concept as no one  can explain what it actually is. However, you lot also say that the moon (which is also flat apparently, which makes it having a gravitational pull rather difficult) and stars exert an (albeit small) gravitational pull. How, then, can you chop and choose what has gravity and what doesn't?

Quote
Q: "How is it that the Earth does not have a gravitational pull, but stars and the moon do?"

A: This argument is a non-sequitur. You might as well ask, "How is it that snakes do not have legs, but dogs and cats do?" Snakes are not dogs or cats. The Earth is not a star or the moon. It does not follow that each must have exactly the properties of the others, and no more.


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clovis2

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2010, 06:57:05 PM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2010, 07:49:50 PM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

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markjo

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2010, 08:06:31 PM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

The New York Times.  Please try to pay attention, will you?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Mr Pseudonym

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2010, 08:28:09 PM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/science/13gravity.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=does%20gravity%20exist&st=cse
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2010, 09:52:04 PM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

The New York Times.  Please try to pay attention, will you?

Unless he provided a link, there is no way to prove his claim is valid.  ::)

Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2010, 09:54:50 PM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

The New York Times.  Please try to pay attention, will you?

Unless he provided a link, there is no way to prove his claim is valid.  ::)
You mean, there is no way to prove his claim is valid without your using Google for five minutes or so just like Mr. P did, right?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2010, 09:57:21 PM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

The New York Times.  Please try to pay attention, will you?

Unless he provided a link, there is no way to prove his claim is valid.  ::)
You mean, there is no way to prove his claim is valid without your using Google for five minutes or so just like Mr. P did, right?

Why should I? He is the one saying that such an article exists, he is the one that should provide it. Aren't you the one that is always demanding that FE'ers show our evidence and sources?  ::)

Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2010, 10:05:43 PM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

The New York Times.  Please try to pay attention, will you?

Unless he provided a link, there is no way to prove his claim is valid.  ::)
You mean, there is no way to prove his claim is valid without your using Google for five minutes or so just like Mr. P did, right?

Why should I? He is the one saying that such an article exists, he is the one that should provide it. Aren't you the one that is always demanding that FE'ers show our evidence and sources?  ::)
I have no reason for why you should do anything. Perhaps you might speak about that issue with your therapist. I'm dealing with your claim "there is no way to prove" which Mr P. so easily falsified. Do you understand the difference now?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2010, 10:08:30 PM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

The New York Times.  Please try to pay attention, will you?

Unless he provided a link, there is no way to prove his claim is valid.  ::)
You mean, there is no way to prove his claim is valid without your using Google for five minutes or so just like Mr. P did, right?

Why should I? He is the one saying that such an article exists, he is the one that should provide it. Aren't you the one that is always demanding that FE'ers show our evidence and sources?  ::)
I have no reason for why you should do anything. Perhaps you might speak about that issue with your therapist. I'm dealing with your claim "there is no way to prove" which Mr P. so easily falsified. Do you understand the difference now?

Nice, good to see you are turning into the RE version of Parsifal and nitpicking exact wordings and phrases.

Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2010, 10:14:45 PM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

The New York Times.  Please try to pay attention, will you?

Unless he provided a link, there is no way to prove his claim is valid.  ::)
You mean, there is no way to prove his claim is valid without your using Google for five minutes or so just like Mr. P did, right?

Why should I? He is the one saying that such an article exists, he is the one that should provide it. Aren't you the one that is always demanding that FE'ers show our evidence and sources?  ::)
I have no reason for why you should do anything. Perhaps you might speak about that issue with your therapist. I'm dealing with your claim "there is no way to prove" which Mr P. so easily falsified. Do you understand the difference now?

Nice, good to see you are turning into the RE version of Parsifal and nitpicking exact wordings and phrases.
Nice, good to see you refuse to admit when you're wrong. I guess we have a backup for Tom Bishop now.

By the way, don't make claims that aren't true. Not only will you have to eat less crow, but also your posts, virtually by default, will be more intelligent than the average FEer.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2010, 10:18:32 PM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

The New York Times.  Please try to pay attention, will you?

Unless he provided a link, there is no way to prove his claim is valid.  ::)
You mean, there is no way to prove his claim is valid without your using Google for five minutes or so just like Mr. P did, right?

Why should I? He is the one saying that such an article exists, he is the one that should provide it. Aren't you the one that is always demanding that FE'ers show our evidence and sources?  ::)
I have no reason for why you should do anything. Perhaps you might speak about that issue with your therapist. I'm dealing with your claim "there is no way to prove" which Mr P. so easily falsified. Do you understand the difference now?

Nice, good to see you are turning into the RE version of Parsifal and nitpicking exact wordings and phrases.
Nice, good to see you refuse to admit when you're wrong. I guess we have a backup for Tom Bishop now.

By the way, don't make claims that aren't true. Not only will you have to eat less crow, but also your posts, virtually by default, will be more intelligent than the average FEer.

By the way, anyone that wasn't looking to just troll and nitpick posts would have understood what I meant. The fact that you are suddenly choosing to be pedantic does not mean everyone else is.

Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2010, 10:23:59 PM »
By the way, anyone that wasn't looking to just troll and nitpick posts would have understood what I meant. The fact that you are suddenly choosing to be pedantic does not mean everyone else is.
Actually, I think you'd do well to learn the lesson not to make claims that you can't support. It's never pedantic to point out a reasoning error, particularly to someone who claims FE.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2010, 10:29:46 PM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

The New York Times.  Please try to pay attention, will you?

Unless he provided a link, there is no way to prove his claim is valid.  ::)
You mean, there is no way to prove his claim is valid without your using Google for five minutes or so just like Mr. P did, right?

Why should I? He is the one saying that such an article exists, he is the one that should provide it. Aren't you the one that is always demanding that FE'ers show our evidence and sources?  ::)
I have no reason for why you should do anything. Perhaps you might speak about that issue with your therapist. I'm dealing with your claim "there is no way to prove" which Mr P. so easily falsified. Do you understand the difference now?

Nice, good to see you are turning into the RE version of Parsifal and nitpicking exact wordings and phrases.
Nice, good to see you refuse to admit when you're wrong. I guess we have a backup for Tom Bishop now.

By the way, don't make claims that aren't true. Not only will you have to eat less crow, but also your posts, virtually by default, will be more intelligent than the average FEer.

By the way, anyone that wasn't looking to just troll and nitpick posts would have understood what I meant. The fact that you are suddenly choosing to be pedantic does not mean everyone else is.

I think it was you sir that claimed the whole universe was moving up without providing anything to substantiate that, much less substantiate that it's moving at all, or up for that matter. And you failed to provide a mechanism by stating it as "unknown", which in tern sums up the FE theory rather nicely. Perhaps you can provide the necessary data?
FE T-shirts = Profit = conspiracy = ideological cult in the making = teaching stupid = paranoia = nut case. Any questions?

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2010, 10:33:36 PM »
By the way, anyone that wasn't looking to just troll and nitpick posts would have understood what I meant. The fact that you are suddenly choosing to be pedantic does not mean everyone else is.
Actually, I think you'd do well to learn the lesson not to make claims that you can't support. It's never pedantic to point out a reasoning error, particularly to someone who claims FE.

Eat you food troll. I'm done with this. I stopped arguing with Parsifal ages ago and I'm not going to start again with you.

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2010, 10:35:07 PM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

The New York Times.  Please try to pay attention, will you?

Unless he provided a link, there is no way to prove his claim is valid.  ::)
You mean, there is no way to prove his claim is valid without your using Google for five minutes or so just like Mr. P did, right?

Why should I? He is the one saying that such an article exists, he is the one that should provide it. Aren't you the one that is always demanding that FE'ers show our evidence and sources?  ::)
I have no reason for why you should do anything. Perhaps you might speak about that issue with your therapist. I'm dealing with your claim "there is no way to prove" which Mr P. so easily falsified. Do you understand the difference now?

Nice, good to see you are turning into the RE version of Parsifal and nitpicking exact wordings and phrases.
Nice, good to see you refuse to admit when you're wrong. I guess we have a backup for Tom Bishop now.

By the way, don't make claims that aren't true. Not only will you have to eat less crow, but also your posts, virtually by default, will be more intelligent than the average FEer.

By the way, anyone that wasn't looking to just troll and nitpick posts would have understood what I meant. The fact that you are suddenly choosing to be pedantic does not mean everyone else is.

I think it was you sir that claimed the whole universe was moving up without providing anything to substantiate that, much less substantiate that it's moving at all, or up for that matter. And you failed to provide a mechanism by stating it as "unknown", which in tern sums up the FE theory rather nicely. Perhaps you can provide the necessary data?

Do RE'ers do this any different when it comes to gravity? Nope. Whether gravity is real or not is still a debate among physicists, not just FE'ers and RE'ers.

Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2010, 10:37:58 PM »
By the way, anyone that wasn't looking to just troll and nitpick posts would have understood what I meant. The fact that you are suddenly choosing to be pedantic does not mean everyone else is.
Actually, I think you'd do well to learn the lesson not to make claims that you can't support. It's never pedantic to point out a reasoning error, particularly to someone who claims FE.

Eat you food troll. I'm done with this. I stopped arguing with Parsifal ages ago and I'm not going to start again with you.
Always glad to see an FEer give up. I hoped you learned your lesson about making claims.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2010, 12:14:33 AM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

The New York Times.  Please try to pay attention, will you?

Unless he provided a link, there is no way to prove his claim is valid.  ::)
You mean, there is no way to prove his claim is valid without your using Google for five minutes or so just like Mr. P did, right?

Why should I? He is the one saying that such an article exists, he is the one that should provide it. Aren't you the one that is always demanding that FE'ers show our evidence and sources?  ::)
I have no reason for why you should do anything. Perhaps you might speak about that issue with your therapist. I'm dealing with your claim "there is no way to prove" which Mr P. so easily falsified. Do you understand the difference now?

Nice, good to see you are turning into the RE version of Parsifal and nitpicking exact wordings and phrases.
Nice, good to see you refuse to admit when you're wrong. I guess we have a backup for Tom Bishop now.

By the way, don't make claims that aren't true. Not only will you have to eat less crow, but also your posts, virtually by default, will be more intelligent than the average FEer.

By the way, anyone that wasn't looking to just troll and nitpick posts would have understood what I meant. The fact that you are suddenly choosing to be pedantic does not mean everyone else is.

I think it was you sir that claimed the whole universe was moving up without providing anything to substantiate that, much less substantiate that it's moving at all, or up for that matter. And you failed to provide a mechanism by stating it as "unknown", which in tern sums up the FE theory rather nicely. Perhaps you can provide the necessary data?

Do RE'ers do this any different when it comes to gravity? Nope. Whether gravity is real or not is still a debate among physicists, not just FE'ers and RE'ers.

Actually RE does have a Model that works rather nicely and is for the most part consistent with data to support it. The only problem is that gravity hasn't been unified with the 3 other forces. Just because Gravity isn't yet fully understood  does not mean it doesn't exist. It's still a material physical induced force. It's largely more notable with objects with larger mass, vs things let's say on the quantum level.. But as pointed out in another thread, there is Q.E.D and quantum gravity.

However, I will concede that this question will remain inconclusive until someone unifies gravity with all the other forces. And I suspect that has a lot to do with mass, spin, EM, and the possible higgs field. But again I am no physicist.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 12:17:03 AM by TheJackel »
FE T-shirts = Profit = conspiracy = ideological cult in the making = teaching stupid = paranoia = nut case. Any questions?

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2010, 12:20:04 AM »
Just because Gravity isn't yet fully understood does not mean it doesn't exist.

Now replace Gravity with pretty much anything.

On another note, you want to read this, this physicist thinks that gravity as we think of it is actually a pseudo-force. It is quite interesting.

http://arxiv.org/abs/1001.0785

Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2010, 12:55:02 AM »
Just because Gravity isn't yet fully understood does not mean it doesn't exist.

Now replace Gravity with pretty much anything.

On another note, you want to read this, this physicist thinks that gravity as we think of it is actually a pseudo-force. It is quite interesting.

http://arxiv.org/abs/1001.0785

Quote
Starting from first principles and general assumptions Newton's law of gravitation is shown to arise naturally and unavoidably in a theory in which space is emergent through a holographic scenario

Can you clarify their use of the term Holographic? I will have to read more on this

And I don't see any data supporting that gravity is a pseudo-force vs a consequence of other material physical forces. Your link doesn't substantiate anything :/ Though it does discuss some interesting points. The one I like to note is how gravity doesn't seem to play much of a role, if at all on the microscopic level, or the quantum level.. And this is to me show's that gravity may be a weak force at these levels and only becomes notable at the larger scales and higher densities vs spin.

Quote
Space is therefore literally just a storage space for information.

Now here is something that interests me. If energy is the substance of space itself, and the substance of information, what does that say in terms of their concept? We know that -1 capacity or -1 spatial space can't actually exist, and thus space isn't emergent but rather an infinite volume. Same goes for -1 energy. This is where existence itself is energy. I think the major problem is that nobody can measure zero base energy, or the zero base point of emerging properties to ever clearly understand exactly how things work. So I really don't believe in pseudo-forces. Everything must be materially and physically connected (forces and all). 

However, I will take some more time reading the PDF

 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 01:40:41 AM by TheJackel »
FE T-shirts = Profit = conspiracy = ideological cult in the making = teaching stupid = paranoia = nut case. Any questions?

Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2010, 12:59:33 AM »
Just because Gravity isn't yet fully understood does not mean it doesn't exist.

Now replace Gravity with pretty much anything.

On another note, you want to read this, this physicist thinks that gravity as we think of it is actually a pseudo-force. It is quite interesting.

http://arxiv.org/abs/1001.0785

Just because TFET isn't yet fully understood does not mean it doesn't exist.
Like that?

Yes, indeed it is general consensus that gravity is only a pseudo force. What we think of as gravity seems to be bent spacetime. But please dont mix it up with pseudoforces like the ones you feel in a car, because that substantially different. I wrote about it in another thread.
English is not my mother tongue, please consider this when reading my posts.
Quote from: anteater7171
Quote
Why is australia excluded?
Because it is a lie propagated by the conspiracy (like gravity or sustained spaceflight).
I lived a lie

Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2010, 01:54:37 AM »
Quote
Just because TFET isn't yet fully understood does not mean it doesn't exist.
Like that?

Depends, how much data backs it up in the end. We can say this, but I have stated that this is irrelevant because gravity is agreeably not unified at this time. I was only stating that he can't claim gravity to be a pseudo-force until proven to be.

Quote
Yes, indeed it is general consensus that gravity is only a pseudo force. What we think of as gravity seems to be bent space-time. But please don't mix it up with pseudo-forces like the ones you feel in a car, because that substantially different. I wrote about it in another thread.

It could be bent space-time while having other forces acting to give it attraction other than just a gravity well. Hence what kind to electromagnetic attraction is there when an object of mass and high density spin?  Hence, do any of the other forces play a role? Can the weak force, strong force, and the electromagnetic force cause gravity to be more pronounced on the larger and higher density scales? And I am just tossing this out there out of curiosity.

And yes, I get your point on the differences between Gravity and the forces you feel in a car  8)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 01:59:28 AM by TheJackel »
FE T-shirts = Profit = conspiracy = ideological cult in the making = teaching stupid = paranoia = nut case. Any questions?

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markjo

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2010, 05:13:16 AM »
There are RE proponents who question the existence of gravity.There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Source?

The New York Times.  Please try to pay attention, will you?

Unless he provided a link, there is no way to prove his claim is valid.  ::)

You didn't ask for a link, you asked for a source.  Please be more specific next time.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2010, 10:15:52 AM »
Quote
Just because TFET isn't yet fully understood does not mean it doesn't exist.
Like that?

Depends, how much data backs it up in the end. We can say this, but I have stated that this is irrelevant because gravity is agreeably not unified at this time. I was only stating that he can't claim gravity to be a pseudo-force until proven to be.

How much data we have currently is completely irrelevant to whether something exists or not. Currently, there is zero evidence that life in the universe exist outside of our planet. (Excluding those that live in orbit. I had to add this because otherwise you pedants would have objected.)

Does that mean that there is no other life in the universe?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 12:38:43 PM by EnglshGentleman »

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markjo

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2010, 12:17:01 PM »
Quote
Just because TFET isn't yet fully understood does not mean it doesn't exist.
Like that?

Depends, how much data backs it up in the end. We can say this, but I have stated that this is irrelevant because gravity is agreeably not unified at this time. I was only stating that he can't claim gravity to be a pseudo-force until proven to be.

How much data we have currently is completely irrelevant to whether something exists or not. Currently, there is zero evidence that life in the universe exist outside of our planet. (Excluding those that live in orbit. I had to add this because otherwise you pedants would have objected.)

Does that mean that there is no other life in the universe?

Fixed for the irony.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

General Disarray

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Re: Gravity/gravitation?
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2010, 12:57:32 PM »
Currently, there is zero evidence that life in the universe exist outside of our planet.

Does that mean that there is no other life in the universe?

Wrong again: http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/space/01/15/mars.methane/index.html
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.