[REDACTED]

When you have your own measuements and use an official FE map, maybe then you'll have an argument.

Oh but I have , and I waiting for you to actually cough up a real response. You can either join this debate and make a real effort to establish your position, or you can sit there and play circular games to which make you irrelevant. You're not playing with someone that can't crunch the numbers, or comprehend why 486 million sq miles is laughable. This is especially true since I know where you got the diameter from. If you feel that I am being unfair, please point me to credible data, and where you actually got your circumference from, and how you established any of your cartoon maps as being even remotely factual or in scale.. What's worse is that you use RE maps, data, and even satellite information on the continents.. Copying pasting other peoples data as data to support X-Fallacy is called plagiarism and shows exactly how week said fallacy is.

And I do have measurements... That's how you get from point A to point B when sailing LOL. I can even give you my average knots, daily positions, GPS coordinates, and time it took me to go from Japan to Hawaii.. However, I would like you to tell me said distances, since you are arguing from the opposite position as if it's a magical fact. If you can't honestly play along, you have already lost this debate.

Hell, just give me links you find appropriate for airline tickets and estimated times of arrival from Japan to Hawii, and what the common flight path is. You want to play with numbers, I can do that This is why all I need to do is calculate time, speed, and distance to figure out who's right, and who's wrong. And we all know who's going to be correct

How is it a dodge when he doesn't even have his own measurements 

You dodged by asking for him to get his own measurements when FET doesn't have an argument here. He doesn't need his own measurements. He just needs for you to admit that there is no official FE map, which you did.

He won, and FET failed again.

So let me get this straight, it's ok that none of you have taken your own measurements but then suddenly it's a tragedy if a FE er can't put together an entire accurate map.

Oh the hypocrisy making your globularist arguments look weaker and weaker AHAHAHA

So let me get this straight, it's ok that none of you have taken your own measurements but then suddenly it's a tragedy if a FE er can't put together an entire accurate map.

Oh the hypocrisy making your globularist arguments look weaker and weaker AHAHAHA

You are dodging here sir lol.. You do realize that I am trying to be nice and get you to interactively make a measurement correct?. I can list several activities for you to do.. When you can play along without dodging you might actually gain some relevance.. And FE btw doesn't have any "measurements" what-so-ever.. That's why they are cartoon maps LOL. You can also read the links I provided you in regards to measurements of FE.. RE measurements are already established You can do this by using GPS to establish the time, speed, and distance to the exact location to your local mall.

All I see you doing atm is pleading, and I had hoped you could do better than that

Quote from: Ichimaru Gin :] on July 24, 2010, 08:48:52 PM

So let me get this straight, it's ok that none of you have taken your own measurements but then suddenly it's a tragedy if a FE er can't put together an entire accurate map.

Oh the hypocrisy making your globularist arguments look weaker and weaker AHAHAHA

You are dodging here sir lol.. You do realize that I am trying to be nice and get you to interactively make a measurement correct?. I can list several activities for you to do.. When you can play along without dodging you might actually gain some relevance.. And FE btw doesn't have any "measurements" what-so-ever.. That's why they are cartoon maps LOL. You can also read the links I provided you in regards to measurements of FE.. RE measurements are already established You can do this by using GPS to establish the time, speed, and distance to the exact location to your local mall.

All I see you doing atm is pleading, and I had hoped you could do better than that

Yes rely on a GPS program...here I was hoping that you would actually measure things yourself instead spitting out whatever you can find from others' programs. Silly me. 

here Let me Help you out a little bit since you are too lazy to visit the links here is your FE world, and FE map vs actual calculation of the flat disk you call FE.




A: No GPS coordinate would ever work on this map
B: Here we have severe warping of the continents
C: Distances between continents ridiculously increase as you get further out
D: No information or detail in terms of coordinates, or exact scale.
E: Boston is now facing completely away from Africa and Portugal. This is completely wrong according to GPS, or using the Sun to calculate my longitude and latitude.


So lets do some math based on the scale provided in this cartoon map being displayed here..

Your Faq states the following information:

Circumference: 125,891 km (78,225 miles)
Diameter: 40,073 km (24,900 miles)

Firstly there is a small mathematical correction to make. A diameter of 40,073 Km is 24,900.2077 miles. When you take this and times it by 3.14(PI), you get the circumference of 78226.3095 miles. So let's move along here and get into more detail.

This map is 12x24 blocks, or 288 blocks all together.
Here we have a grid radius of 12 blocks starting at the north pole extending out to the edge of the Earth. These 12 blocks for sake of argument will all be equal in raidius (height). Here we take the diameter of 24,900.2077 and divide it by 24 blocks across the diameter to get 1,037.5086 miles in height for each block of the 24 blocks.

So each of the 24 blocks has a radius height of 1,037.5086 miles in height or length depending on how you look at it

The center Angle is 15 degrees with a radius of 12450.10385 going out to the circumference.

Segment Legend for FE map:

Number of Segments: 288 12x24

1) Segment 0 = What would be the North Pole

2)Segments 1-12 = 12 segment blocks extending out  from Segment 0 to to the Edge Circumference and ending with Segment 12 

3)All segments are equal in Radius Length.. (R/12) = 1,037.5086, Or (D/24) = 1,037.5086

Diameter by segment:

0:           0 miles
1:      2,075.0173 miles
2:      4,150.0346 miles
3:      6,225.0519 miles
4:      8,300.0692 miles
5:    10,375.0865 miles
6:    12,450.1038 miles
7:    14,525.1211 miles
8:    16,600.1384 miles
9:    18,675.1557 miles
10:  20,750.1730 miles
11:  22,825.1903 miles
12:  24,900.2077 miles

per Block: 1,037.5086

Circumferences by segment distance from center:

0:         0.xxxx miles
1:     6,518.8591 miles
2:    13,037.7182 miles
3:    19,556.5773 miles
4:    26,075.4364 miles
5:    32,594.2955 miles
6:    39,113.1546 miles
7:    45,632.0137 miles
8:    52,150.8728 miles
9:    58,669.7319 miles
10:   65,188.5910 miles
11:   71,707.4501 miles
12:   78,226.3095 miles


The Area by segment distance from center:

0:                      0 miles
1:         3,381,686.3551 sq miles
2:       13,526,745.4206 sq miles
3:       30,435,177.1965 sq miles
4:       54,106,981.6827 sq miles
5:       84,542,158.8793 sq miles
6:     121,740,708.7862 sq miles
7:     165,702,631.4035 sq miles
8:     216,427,926.7311 sq miles
9:     273,916,594.7691 sq miles
10:   338,168,635.5174 sq miles
11:   409,184,048.9760 sq miles 
12:   486,962,839.0564 sq miles

Total Area Comparison:

FE:
 486,962,839.0564 sq miles

percent of Earth's ocean 70% - 340,873,987.33948 sq miles
percent of Earth's  land: 30% - 146,088,851.71692 sq miles

RE:
196,935,000 sq miles
percent of Earth's ocean 70% - 137,854,500 sq miles
percent of Earth's land: 30% -  59,080,500 sq miles 

--------------

We can also see that there is 12 by 24 blocks. So let's outline the area in square miles per segment (Block) by finding the values below:

Legend:

Diameter 24900.2077 miles
Radius 12450.10385 miles
Circumference: 78226.3095 miles
total area: 486962839.0564 sq miles
center angle: 15 degrees
Segments: 288, 12hx24w
Sector Area: 20290118.294016666666666666666667 sq miles
Sector Sector Arch Legnth: 3,259.4296 miles
Sector Chord Length 3,250.1293 miles
Segment Area:  230,984.1378 sq miles

Segment Radius:(miles)

1:  1037.508654
2:  2075.017308
3:  3112.525962
4:  4150.034616
5:  5187.543270
6:  6225.051925
7:  7262.560579
8:  8300.069233
9:  9337.577887
10: 10375.08654
11: 11412.59519
12: 12450.10385

Segment Area Arc Lengths:(Miles)

1:  271.6191
2:  543.2383
3:  814.8574
4:  1,086.4765
5:  1,358.0957
6:  1,629.7148
7:  1,901.3339
8:  2,172.953
9:  2,444.5722
10: 2,716.1913
11: 2,987.8104
12: 3,259.4296


Segment Area Chord lengths: (Miles)

1:      270.8441
2:      541.6882
3:      812.5323
4:   1,083.3764
5:   1,354.2205
6:   1,625.0646
7:   1,895.9088
8:   2,166.7529
9:   2,437.5970
10: 2,716.1913
11: 2,979.2852
12: 3,250.1293

Segment Areas:

1:  1,604.0565
2:  6,416.226
3:  14,436.5086
4:  25,664.9042
5:  40,101.4128
6:  57,746.0345
7:  78,598.7691
8:  102,659.6168
9:  129,928.5775
10: 160,405.6512
11: 194,090.8378
12: 230,984.1378

Total Area Per Segment Block on the Map: (sq miles)

1:      140,903.59812916666666666666666667
2:      422,710.79439583333333333333333333
3:      704,517.9906625
4:      986,325.186925
5:   1,268,132.3831916666666666666666667
6:   1,549,939.5794541666666666666666667
7:   1,831,746.7757208333333333333333333
8:   2,113,553.9719833333333333333333333
9:   2,395,361.16825
10: 2,677,168.3645125
11: 2,958,975.560775
12: 3,240,782.9200166666666666666666667

To get total Area of FE, add 1-12 and multiply by 24 to get: 486962839.0564 sq miles

-------------

In a few months I am planning to travel from Melbourne to Perth (Australia). According to this map that would be about 10000 km, which would take at least 12 hours by airplane.
Lets see...

What Airport are you leaving from? And this greatly depends on flight path too. So time estimations of RE vs FE would depend on these factors .. Hence the same path would be longer on FE than RE.. We can simply determine this by using a speed distance calculator.

10,000 KM's at 600mph would take 10 hours, 21 mins, and 22 seconds.. The average passenger plane does about 540-600mph. So at 580mph (likely avg) . 10 hours, 42 Mins, and 47 sec's .. And this is regardless of Re or FE

The Key thing to note here is that I made these calculations to show why GPS wouldn't work at all on the FE map, as well as why I could never use the Sun to plot my longitude and latitude according to spherical calculations if the Earth were flat. Hence, I would get lost at sea, or never reach my destination if FE was a fact.

The other key note is to understand that the most significant differences are notable as you expand out to the circumference. Hence, America only gained 430k sq miles by visual reference to a cartoon map not in scale according to my calculations..(hence the FE provided map is under scale by a large margin) However, even when using this map as a visual reference, even Australia doubled it's sq miles entirely to over 5 million sq miles by visual reference to this FE cartoon map!.. And I'm sure New Zealand would know if their Country was twice it's size and distance from Australia .. However, this shows it to be far less of a significant problem than it really is vs if we go according to scale percentages of land mass area in accordance to the RE scale.

But let's see where some of the largest changes occur in visual cartoon map reference not in scale vs land mass area calculations.. For this, lets go into South America:

RE:
South America has an area of 17840000 square kilometers (6890000 sq mi) This is roughly 3.5% of Earths 196,935,000 total sq miles.

FE:

According to this map provided and my rough visual calculation, I got 12,977,221.3879 sq miles.. Visualizing the FE map isn't very helpful considering it's not even close to scale.. But I still ended up way over 6.8 million sq miles to where South Africa would be twice it's current size..!

So let's do a more non visual calculation and go by total area percentage of 3.5%
I took the total FE area of 486,962,839.0564 and multiplied it by 3.5% to get : 17,043,699.365 million sq miles!

HOT DAM! That would make South America about as large as Asia within the RE model!

So remember this when you go on your trip, if it's FE, it's likely to be a lot further than 10k kilometers We really can't use that map as a scale because their Block size is larger than what my block sizes would be on the same map provided .. And this is because if you look carefully, their blocks are not even, or accurately spaced.

Quote from: TheJackel on July 24, 2010, 08:57:20 PM

Quote from: Ichimaru Gin :] on July 24, 2010, 08:48:52 PM

So let me get this straight, it's ok that none of you have taken your own measurements but then suddenly it's a tragedy if a FE er can't put together an entire accurate map.

Oh the hypocrisy making your globularist arguments look weaker and weaker AHAHAHA

You are dodging here sir lol.. You do realize that I am trying to be nice and get you to interactively make a measurement correct?. I can list several activities for you to do.. When you can play along without dodging you might actually gain some relevance.. And FE btw doesn't have any "measurements" what-so-ever.. That's why they are cartoon maps LOL. You can also read the links I provided you in regards to measurements of FE.. RE measurements are already established You can do this by using GPS to establish the time, speed, and distance to the exact location to your local mall.

All I see you doing atm is pleading, and I had hoped you could do better than that

Yes rely on a GPS program...here I was hoping that you would actually measure things yourself instead spitting out whatever you can find from others' programs. Silly me. 

Yes, it is silly of you. Relying on the efforts of others is not a weakness. Refusing to accept the peer-reviewed efforts of others borders on paranoia. If you have a question about those results, then engage in a scientific effort to review it for yourself.

Please don't use incorrect FE distances TheJackel. Your entire argument is flawed because a)you haven't done any measuring yourself and b)you have the FE info completely wrong.

And here is some very important figures to consider when debating me on this issue..

FE:
 486,962,839.0564 sq miles

percent of Earth's ocean 70% - 340,873,987.33948 sq miles
percent of Earth's  land: 30% - 146,088,851.71692 sq miles

RE:
196,935,000 sq miles
percent of Earth's ocean 70% - 137,854,500 sq miles
percent of Earth's land: 30% -  59,080,500 sq miles 

If you are going to keep things in scale, and actually be some what accurate in regards to that,  you are going to have to consider these figures and how it relates to the real world, navigation, and the time, speed, and distance calculations to anything from walking to the mall, driving across the country, sailing around the world, or flying to another destination..

Please stop using incorrect FE info.

Please don't use incorrect FE distances TheJackel. Your entire argument is flawed because a)you haven't done any measuring yourself and b)you have the FE info completely wrong.

They aren't incorrect LOL.. You need to learn math, and why this is absolutely accurate data.. And yes, the exact scale is questionable due to the FE maps cartoon scale being questionable. This is why I gave both visual and percentage comparisons lol.. Hence, no matter what you do here, you are not going to magically make a 486 million sq miles reflect the real world in terms of time, speed and distance LMAO..

Who do you think you are fooling here lol.. You can feel free to check the math, it's correct

Please stop using incorrect FE info.

Really, then I suggest you share your data LOL... According to FE, the circumference is 78,266 miles.. This is thus then correct data.. Learn math pls and thank you.

Dodging because you can't understand the math isn't helping your argument sir

I'm not talking about the math. I'm talking about the FAQ numbers.

I'm not talking about the math. I'm talking about the FAQ numbers.

Really, so now FE can't even agree on numbers LOL.. Let's put it this way, when converting spherical data into circle data, you will screw the pooch on scale and accuracy no matter what you attempt to do here . And the other problem is that you have to use RE Earth's circumference for FE's diameter, because if you don't, you end up with severe shrinkage or way over expansion of land mass, and surface area .. You can attempt to play the numbers game with me and it's not going to work

Feel free however to give me an Official map, or data.. And you do realize that this really show's how poor the FE argument is correct?..

So let me get this straight, it's ok that none of you have taken your own measurements but then suddenly it's a tragedy if a FE er can't put together an entire accurate map.

Oh the hypocrisy making your globularist arguments look weaker and weaker AHAHAHA

Who said that none of 'us' has taken his or her own measurement? We take our own measurements regularly. Every time we take a trip we make our own measurements. As a team we have an accurate, predictive map of the Earth. FET doesn't have a map. Since RET predicts common-day events such as how long it will take me to reach my vacation destination, it wins. That's not a tragedy, just a RE victory.

That's not a tragedy, just a RE victory.

MMMKAY

I really don't give a crap about playing the victory game, it's about honest debate even if it's for the LULZ. Hence, facts do matter. I'm a number cruncher, and I do this daily. In light of this, it's probably why I can see the BS in FE where other people might not. And I can imagine that is why FE's FAQ only lists it's diameter and circumference in the Geography section .. What's worse is that the Geography section is rather laughable all on it's own :/

I'm a number cruncher, and I do this daily.

Please take a seat next to our chemist and lawyer. The three of you will get along just fine.

Quote from: TheJackel on July 24, 2010, 10:02:22 PM

I'm a number cruncher, and I do this daily.

Please take a seat next to our chemist and lawyer. The three of you will get along just fine.

Suddenly the neighborhood troll comes out of the woods looking for table scraps! 

Quote from: PizzaPlanet on July 24, 2010, 10:27:16 PM

Quote from: TheJackel on July 24, 2010, 10:02:22 PM

I'm a number cruncher, and I do this daily.

Please take a seat next to our chemist and lawyer. The three of you will get along just fine.

The neighborhood troll comes out of the woods looking for table scraps I see

Not really.  It is just the argument, "I'm a number cruncher, I'm a physicist, I'm a living surivivor of Challenger Space Missions.." has been heard all too many times before.  Do you not think that other highly qualified people are also arguing here... on both sides?

I never said I was a Physicist. And crunching numbers is something everyone ought to be able to do .. The only thing I ever stated myself as being, was a Sailor. If you are going to make statements to support a troll argument, make sure you check said troll's arguments It's a plea to dismiss information and arguments in order to cling to delusional fallacies. And I do believe I had to correct this troll on this assumption of his in another post.

Nice try though for a play at credibility points constructed around a circular fallacy. 

I never said I was a Physicist. And crunching numbers is something everyone ought to be able to do .. The only thing I ever stated myself as being, was a Sailor. If you are going to make statements to support a troll argument, make sure you check said troll's arguments It's a plea to dismiss information and arguments in order to cling to delusional fallacies. And I do believe I had to correct this troll on this assumption of his in another post.

Nice try though for a play at credibility points constructed around a circular fallacy. 

I never said you were a physicist either.  Neither did I actually suppport PizzaPlanet's statement.  To be honest, I think you may be the one who is fishing all sort of assumptions out of people's posts.

Now are you going try to keep this off topic by posting about 'trolls' and smiley faces with nothing really substantial to add? Please keep it on topic.

Quote from: TheJackel on July 24, 2010, 10:48:57 PM

I never said I was a Physicist. And crunching numbers is something everyone ought to be able to do .. The only thing I ever stated myself as being, was a Sailor. If you are going to make statements to support a troll argument, make sure you check said troll's arguments It's a plea to dismiss information and arguments in order to cling to delusional fallacies. And I do believe I had to correct this troll on this assumption of his in another post.

Nice try though for a play at credibility points constructed around a circular fallacy. 

I never said you were a physicist either.  Neither did I actually suppport PizzaPlanet's statement.  To be honest, I think you may be the one who is fishing all sort of assumptions out of people's posts.

Now are you going try to keep this off topic by posting about 'trolls' and smiley faces with nothing really substantial to add? Please keep it on topic.

I'm not the one that derailed the topic, and in regards to the rest, the context of your post was quite vague enough derive insinuation out of it. But thanks for clearing it up.  And I never claimed that you said I was a physicist, my statement here was to show why his post was trolling, and why it was nothing more than attempt to play the credibility game in order to support his position, and to derail this into a circular game. He obviously didn't have anything substantial to add did he? Thus he's trolling!

And for the record I added quite a bit to the subject that was being discussed unlike others here who continue to use circular nonsense.