The Conspiracy is ridiculous.

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The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« on: July 21, 2010, 11:16:42 AM »
Are you seriously suggesting that every country in the world is run by corrupt satanists, for some reason bent on making people think... the earth is round? People have been into space. You can't deny it. Thousands of people come to see a spaceship take off. So, explain to me how every space flight ever has been faked, or that they were all run by satanists with some global horrific plan to hoodwink the world into thinking the earth is round.

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Raver

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 11:23:47 AM »
Inb4 TB claims it is 1 big hoax to gain military superiority.

There is no reason for a conspiracy, since whatever a government claims on a FE they could claim on a RE as well, hence there is no reason to fake alternate shapes of the earth. Also I would like to point out that the most believable and trustworthy FE'er on this site (John Davis) believes the conspiracy is highly unlikely as well.
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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2010, 11:40:15 AM »
And without a conspiracy... everything about round earth is true  ??? I don't get it

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Raver

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2010, 11:43:33 AM »
And without a conspiracy... everything about round earth is true  ??? I don't get it

It is a flaw that remains unexplained by conspiracy believers. John Davis however does a good Job defending his beliefs without looking ridiculous (ie. not arguing for the sake of arguing). I suggest you read up on his posts if you are interested in FE models.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2010, 12:28:53 PM »
The purpose of the conspiracy is not to hide the shape of the earth.

The purpose of the conspiracy is to fake the concept of space travel for military and, perhaps, patriotic purposes.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 12:31:23 PM by Tom Bishop »

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zork

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2010, 12:39:49 PM »
The purpose of the conspiracy is to fake the concept of space travel for military and, perhaps, patriotic purposes.
  If the space travel is only the race for faking things then there would be every possible country with space travel program already. Even the small country can spare some dollars for building fake rocket which doesn't fly anywhere actually.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
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http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2010, 12:44:30 PM »
The purpose of the conspiracy is to fake the concept of space travel for military and, perhaps, patriotic purposes.
 If the space travel is only the race for faking things then there would be every possible country with space travel program already. Even the small country can spare some dollars for building fake rocket which doesn't fly anywhere actually.

Actually, other countries are faking space programs.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+Conspiracy

Scroll down to the "Fake Chinese Spacewalk" link.

China's space program is incredibly phony.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 12:56:20 PM by Tom Bishop »

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EireEngineer

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2010, 12:56:32 PM »
You would think that there would be at least one country that would blow the lid off of this conspiracy, if for no other reason than to gain some international prestige.  Since the USA is undoubtedly the biggest "faker", you would think the enemies of the US would just love to see them with egg on their face.  One universal constant....everyone loves a "gotcha" moment
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

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zork

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2010, 12:58:13 PM »
The purpose of the conspiracy is to fake the concept of space travel for military and, perhaps, patriotic purposes.
 If the space travel is only the race for faking things then there would be every possible country with space travel program already. Even the small country can spare some dollars for building fake rocket which doesn't fly anywhere actually.

Actually, other countries are faking space programs.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+Conspiracy

Scroll down to the "Fake Chinese Spacewalk" link.

China's space program is incredibly phony.
I didn't say one other country or some, I said every possible country.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2010, 01:33:04 PM »
If people haven't been to space, were did the rockets go to? I'm not quite following this.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 01:39:44 PM »
You would think that there would be at least one country that would blow the lid off of this conspiracy, if for no other reason than to gain some international prestige.  Since the USA is undoubtedly the biggest "faker", you would think the enemies of the US would just love to see them with egg on their face.  One universal constant....everyone loves a "gotcha" moment

Well, when we were doing our space program in the 1960's lots of people were saying that it was fake.

When Russia first started its space program even the US Government was saying for a while that it was false, until they caved in some years later and took the position that Russia's program was real, likely for political purposes.

Just recently the US Government has been calling North Korea's space program a sham. We are assured that North Korea does not have the ability to reach earth orbit, and is several decades behind in technology, despite North Korea's claims.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 04:08:00 PM by Tom Bishop »

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EireEngineer

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2010, 03:34:35 PM »
So basically, there is political will to say identify such programs as fake, at least until proven otherwise, yet nobody outside of the FET community is doing so. Thanks Tommy, for proving my point.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

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Johannes

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2010, 03:38:21 PM »
So basically, there is political will to say identify such programs as fake, at least until proven otherwise, yet nobody outside of the FET community is doing so. Thanks Tommy, for proving my point.
The Chinese have release video of "spacewalks" where you can clearly see bubbles floating around. Obviously these videos were faked, and they were pulled immediately by Chinese authorities. If you search on the internet you may be able to find them though.

Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 03:42:31 PM »
So basically, there is political will to say identify such programs as fake, at least until proven otherwise, yet nobody outside of the FET community is doing so. Thanks Tommy, for proving my point.
The Chinese have release video of "spacewalks" where you can clearly see bubbles floating around. Obviously these videos were faked, and they were pulled immediately by Chinese authorities. If you search on the internet you may be able to find them though.
So you don't have any evidence that the Chinese Government faked its space program then? Would faking a space walk prove anything about a conspiracy anyway?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Raver

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 04:29:26 PM »
TB, could you for once refrain yourself from posting your opinion. Except for your personal opinions you have shown us absolutely nothing as to why one would need to fake a RE. One could fake a spaceprogramm on a FE just as good as on a RE, so you fail to point out why it is needed to give an alternate (round) shape.

Ofcourse you will ignore this point into eternity, which is why I believe that anyone who wishes to learn about a FET seriously, ought to talk to John Davis or Wilmore and not TB. They do not only present opinions and if they do, they will admit they are doing so.
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Johannes

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2010, 05:29:25 PM »
So basically, there is political will to say identify such programs as fake, at least until proven otherwise, yet nobody outside of the FET community is doing so. Thanks Tommy, for proving my point.
The Chinese have release video of "spacewalks" where you can clearly see bubbles floating around. Obviously these videos were faked, and they were pulled immediately by Chinese authorities. If you search on the internet you may be able to find them though.
So you don't have any evidence that the Chinese Government faked its space program then? Would faking a space walk prove anything about a conspiracy anyway?
Conclusive proof the chinese space agency has faked spacewalks:



Proving that there is a fake space walk proves that there is at least some conspiracy going on to deceive the public about the nature of a "space walk".
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 05:31:27 PM by Johannes »

Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2010, 05:47:38 PM »
Conclusive proof the chinese space agency has faked spacewalks:



Proving that there is a fake space walk proves that there is at least some conspiracy going on to deceive the public about the nature of a "space walk".
You fail. There is nothing conclusive about that video. Let's consider just a few of its shortcomings.
  • There is nothing to indicate that the Chinese Government claimed it was an actual spacewalk.
  • There is no scientific analysis of the footage to substantiate the claim that it's underwater. This reminds me of the crackpots who say that the moonwalkers won't have moved like they did. Mythbusters, by the way, cleared that one up nicely in favor of NASA.
  • There is no attribution for the conclusions.
  • There are many unsupported claims, such as there are "blowers" used in underwater training to simulate neutral buoyancy.

There are numerous others, but let's just say for now: Despite your claim, there is nothing conclusive in this link.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Johannes

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2010, 06:35:40 PM »
Conclusive proof the chinese space agency has faked spacewalks:



Proving that there is a fake space walk proves that there is at least some conspiracy going on to deceive the public about the nature of a "space walk".
You fail. There is nothing conclusive about that video. Let's consider just a few of its shortcomings.
  • There is nothing to indicate that the Chinese Government claimed it was an actual spacewalk.
  • There is no scientific analysis of the footage to substantiate the claim that it's underwater. This reminds me of the crackpots who say that the moonwalkers won't have moved like they did. Mythbusters, by the way, cleared that one up nicely in favor of NASA.
  • There is no attribution for the conclusions.
  • There are many unsupported claims, such as there are "blowers" used in underwater training to simulate neutral buoyancy.

There are numerous others, but let's just say for now: Despite your claim, there is nothing conclusive in this link.
Did you see bubbles in the video? Did you see bubbles accelerate upwards for no apparent reason in this video? Those two observations alone are enough to conclude that this footage is fake.

 It is widely reported in the media too that china was caught red handed.

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Raver

  • 777
Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2010, 06:43:08 PM »
/agree
Video clearly shows china faking a spacewalk, doesn't mean that the US did so as well though.

It also shows that China can't afford photoshop OH WAIT DISREGARD THAT,  THEY BANNED THE INTERNETZ IN CHINA.
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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2010, 06:53:25 PM »
Conclusive proof the chinese space agency has faked spacewalks:



Proving that there is a fake space walk proves that there is at least some conspiracy going on to deceive the public about the nature of a "space walk".
You fail. There is nothing conclusive about that video. Let's consider just a few of its shortcomings.
  • There is nothing to indicate that the Chinese Government claimed it was an actual spacewalk.
  • There is no scientific analysis of the footage to substantiate the claim that it's underwater. This reminds me of the crackpots who say that the moonwalkers won't have moved like they did. Mythbusters, by the way, cleared that one up nicely in favor of NASA.
  • There is no attribution for the conclusions.
  • There are many unsupported claims, such as there are "blowers" used in underwater training to simulate neutral buoyancy.

There are numerous others, but let's just say for now: Despite your claim, there is nothing conclusive in this link.
Did you see bubbles in the video? Did you see bubbles accelerate upwards for no apparent reason in this video? Those two observations alone are enough to conclude that this footage is fake.

 It is widely reported in the media too that china was caught red handed.

Let's review. Prove that the object was a bubble and of what. Prove the acceleration "upwards" is unexpected. Prove that outgassing of the module could not have caused the acceleration of some light object. Prove how the Chinese faked the breathing underwater without umbilicals. Prove that the Chinese intentionally used this video instead of the actual footage.

Prove you claim that the Media widely reported that China was caught red-handed.

Other than that, one faked video does not prove a world-wide conspiracy.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Johannes

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2010, 07:05:12 PM »
Conclusive proof the chinese space agency has faked spacewalks:



Proving that there is a fake space walk proves that there is at least some conspiracy going on to deceive the public about the nature of a "space walk".
You fail. There is nothing conclusive about that video. Let's consider just a few of its shortcomings.
  • There is nothing to indicate that the Chinese Government claimed it was an actual spacewalk.
  • There is no scientific analysis of the footage to substantiate the claim that it's underwater. This reminds me of the crackpots who say that the moonwalkers won't have moved like they did. Mythbusters, by the way, cleared that one up nicely in favor of NASA.
  • There is no attribution for the conclusions.
  • There are many unsupported claims, such as there are "blowers" used in underwater training to simulate neutral buoyancy.

There are numerous others, but let's just say for now: Despite your claim, there is nothing conclusive in this link.
Did you see bubbles in the video? Did you see bubbles accelerate upwards for no apparent reason in this video? Those two observations alone are enough to conclude that this footage is fake.

 It is widely reported in the media too that china was caught red handed.

Let's review. Prove that the object was a bubble and of what. Prove the acceleration "upwards" is unexpected. Prove that outgassing of the module could not have caused the acceleration of some light object. Prove how the Chinese faked the breathing underwater without umbilicals. Prove that the Chinese intentionally used this video instead of the actual footage.

Prove you claim that the Media widely reported that China was caught red-handed.

Other than that, one faked video does not prove a world-wide conspiracy.
Stop trolling.

Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2010, 07:11:05 PM »
Conclusive proof the chinese space agency has faked spacewalks:



Proving that there is a fake space walk proves that there is at least some conspiracy going on to deceive the public about the nature of a "space walk".
You fail. There is nothing conclusive about that video. Let's consider just a few of its shortcomings.
  • There is nothing to indicate that the Chinese Government claimed it was an actual spacewalk.
  • There is no scientific analysis of the footage to substantiate the claim that it's underwater. This reminds me of the crackpots who say that the moonwalkers won't have moved like they did. Mythbusters, by the way, cleared that one up nicely in favor of NASA.
  • There is no attribution for the conclusions.
  • There are many unsupported claims, such as there are "blowers" used in underwater training to simulate neutral buoyancy.

There are numerous others, but let's just say for now: Despite your claim, there is nothing conclusive in this link.
Did you see bubbles in the video? Did you see bubbles accelerate upwards for no apparent reason in this video? Those two observations alone are enough to conclude that this footage is fake.

 It is widely reported in the media too that china was caught red handed.

Let's review. Prove that the object was a bubble and of what. Prove the acceleration "upwards" is unexpected. Prove that outgassing of the module could not have caused the acceleration of some light object. Prove how the Chinese faked the breathing underwater without umbilicals. Prove that the Chinese intentionally used this video instead of the actual footage.

Prove you claim that the Media widely reported that China was caught red-handed.

Other than that, one faked video does not prove a world-wide conspiracy.
Stop trolling.
Start debating. We aren't interested in your opinions. Provide real references that document what you claim. FET's just relying on a "Conspiracy" makes it not scientific. Please reference: http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Falsifiability
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Johannes

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2010, 07:23:03 PM »
Conclusive proof the chinese space agency has faked spacewalks:



Proving that there is a fake space walk proves that there is at least some conspiracy going on to deceive the public about the nature of a "space walk".
You fail. There is nothing conclusive about that video. Let's consider just a few of its shortcomings.
  • There is nothing to indicate that the Chinese Government claimed it was an actual spacewalk.
  • There is no scientific analysis of the footage to substantiate the claim that it's underwater. This reminds me of the crackpots who say that the moonwalkers won't have moved like they did. Mythbusters, by the way, cleared that one up nicely in favor of NASA.
  • There is no attribution for the conclusions.
  • There are many unsupported claims, such as there are "blowers" used in underwater training to simulate neutral buoyancy.

There are numerous others, but let's just say for now: Despite your claim, there is nothing conclusive in this link.
Did you see bubbles in the video? Did you see bubbles accelerate upwards for no apparent reason in this video? Those two observations alone are enough to conclude that this footage is fake.

 It is widely reported in the media too that china was caught red handed.

Let's review. Prove that the object was a bubble and of what. Prove the acceleration "upwards" is unexpected. Prove that outgassing of the module could not have caused the acceleration of some light object. Prove how the Chinese faked the breathing underwater without umbilicals. Prove that the Chinese intentionally used this video instead of the actual footage.

Prove you claim that the Media widely reported that China was caught red-handed.

Other than that, one faked video does not prove a world-wide conspiracy.
Stop trolling.
Start debating. We aren't interested in your opinions. Provide real references that document what you claim. FET's just relying on a "Conspiracy" makes it not scientific. Please reference: http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Falsifiability
Quite frankly, I don't care if you don't believe that the Chinese faked their spacewalk. With my knowledge of the laws of physics, reaching the conclusion that the video was filmed underwater was quite simple.

Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2010, 08:27:32 PM »
Conclusive proof the chinese space agency has faked spacewalks:



Proving that there is a fake space walk proves that there is at least some conspiracy going on to deceive the public about the nature of a "space walk".
You fail. There is nothing conclusive about that video. Let's consider just a few of its shortcomings.
  • There is nothing to indicate that the Chinese Government claimed it was an actual spacewalk.
  • There is no scientific analysis of the footage to substantiate the claim that it's underwater. This reminds me of the crackpots who say that the moonwalkers won't have moved like they did. Mythbusters, by the way, cleared that one up nicely in favor of NASA.
  • There is no attribution for the conclusions.
  • There are many unsupported claims, such as there are "blowers" used in underwater training to simulate neutral buoyancy.

There are numerous others, but let's just say for now: Despite your claim, there is nothing conclusive in this link.
Did you see bubbles in the video? Did you see bubbles accelerate upwards for no apparent reason in this video? Those two observations alone are enough to conclude that this footage is fake.

 It is widely reported in the media too that china was caught red handed.

Let's review. Prove that the object was a bubble and of what. Prove the acceleration "upwards" is unexpected. Prove that outgassing of the module could not have caused the acceleration of some light object. Prove how the Chinese faked the breathing underwater without umbilicals. Prove that the Chinese intentionally used this video instead of the actual footage.

Prove you claim that the Media widely reported that China was caught red-handed.

Other than that, one faked video does not prove a world-wide conspiracy.
Stop trolling.
Start debating. We aren't interested in your opinions. Provide real references that document what you claim. FET's just relying on a "Conspiracy" makes it not scientific. Please reference: http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Falsifiability
Quite frankly, I don't care if you don't believe that the Chinese faked their spacewalk. With my knowledge of the laws of physics, reaching the conclusion that the video was filmed underwater was quite simple.

And, of course, even that self-reported knowledge would fail to support your premise. Please learn enough about logic to debate. Thanks.

So it remains unsupported that the Chinese faked their spacewalk. FET continues to struggle with even the basics of its claim that a conspiracy exists and that it keeps evidence about the shape of the Earth secret for the general population of every country throughout recorded time. So FET fails.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Johannes

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2010, 10:18:16 PM »
A bubble emerged in "space" and accelerated upwards, just like an air-bubble accelerating to the top of a pool of water. What part of this evidence do you not understand?

In a vacuum, an object would not accelerate away like in the video.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 10:23:20 PM by Johannes »

Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2010, 10:32:04 PM »
A bubble emerged in "space" and accelerated upwards, just like an air-bubble accelerating to the top of a pool of water. What part of this evidence do you not understand?

In a vacuum, an object would not away like in the video.
Do tell us how you determined that it was a bubble. Do tell us how you eliminated other forms of acceleration. Do tell us how you measured the acceleration and whether it's in line with your hypothesis.

Then don't forget you still have to show the intent to defraud. You haven't demonstrated that the Chinese Government even posted this video. You're not even in the ballpark to show that this is, in your words, "Conclusive proof the chinese [sic] space agency has faked spacewalks".

As usual, FET has only half-baked ideas and evidence. Another FET epic fail. It's just like Carpenter's proof that world is flat because the HMS Challenger's entire voyage including to and from England and over-wintering in South America over three years means that the distance around Antarctica must be too great for the Earth to be a sphere. What's next? Maybe we'll hear how the fairies build the nexus rings? We've already heard that some consider the phases of the Moon to be caused by, oh get this!, biology. The Moon plants grow and die off producing the Moon's phase.  ::)
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Johannes

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2010, 11:17:50 PM »
Around the theoretical ISS there should be negligible forces acting on objects (none in FE)... the bubble is accelerating way too fast.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2010, 11:26:43 PM »
More Chinese fakery:


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Johannes

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Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2010, 11:37:30 PM »
A bubble emerged in "space" and accelerated upwards, just like an air-bubble accelerating to the top of a pool of water. What part of this evidence do you not understand?

In a vacuum, an object would not away like in the video.
Do tell us how you determined that it was a bubble. Do tell us how you eliminated other forms of acceleration. Do tell us how you measured the acceleration and whether it's in line with your hypothesis.

Then don't forget you still have to show the intent to defraud. You haven't demonstrated that the Chinese Government even posted this video. You're not even in the ballpark to show that this is, in your words, "Conclusive proof the chinese [sic] space agency has faked spacewalks".

As usual, FET has only half-baked ideas and evidence. Another FET epic fail. It's just like Carpenter's proof that world is flat because the HMS Challenger's entire voyage including to and from England and over-wintering in South America over three years means that the distance around Antarctica must be too great for the Earth to be a sphere. What's next? Maybe we'll hear how the fairies build the nexus rings? We've already heard that some consider the phases of the Moon to be caused by, oh get this!, biology. The Moon plants grow and die off producing the Moon's phase.  ::)
I measured the distance the bubble travelled from frame to frame.

The bubble came out of the "astroNOTs" helmet. What could have come out of a helmet?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 11:42:21 PM by Johannes »

Re: The Conspiracy is ridiculous.
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2010, 12:09:21 AM »
A bubble emerged in "space" and accelerated upwards, just like an air-bubble accelerating to the top of a pool of water. What part of this evidence do you not understand?

In a vacuum, an object would not away like in the video.
Do tell us how you determined that it was a bubble. Do tell us how you eliminated other forms of acceleration. Do tell us how you measured the acceleration and whether it's in line with your hypothesis.

Then don't forget you still have to show the intent to defraud. You haven't demonstrated that the Chinese Government even posted this video. You're not even in the ballpark to show that this is, in your words, "Conclusive proof the chinese [sic] space agency has faked spacewalks".

As usual, FET has only half-baked ideas and evidence. Another FET epic fail. It's just like Carpenter's proof that world is flat because the HMS Challenger's entire voyage including to and from England and over-wintering in South America over three years means that the distance around Antarctica must be too great for the Earth to be a sphere. What's next? Maybe we'll hear how the fairies build the nexus rings? We've already heard that some consider the phases of the Moon to be caused by, oh get this!, biology. The Moon plants grow and die off producing the Moon's phase.  ::)
I measured the distance the bubble travelled from frame to frame.

The bubble came out of the "astroNOTs" helmet. What could have come out of a helmet?
Again, you have not provided your evidence. What was the measure from frame to frame. How do you know it's a bubble?

Why couldn't it have been a liquid, or even a piece of tape that moved off the helmet?

And remember, you've yet to show that the Chinese Government even published this video as an actual spacewalk and then you'd still have to show intention. Heck, we've seen dozens of sophomoric mistakes by FEers here in the forum just this week, such as misapplying Occam's Razor and the Equivalence Principle. Why would you attribute such an alleged  posting problem to malice instead to human error?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards