"Magnets, how do they work?"

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: "Magnets, how do they work?"
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2010, 04:54:27 PM »
Magnetic fields and electic fields are actually the same thing just in different frames of reference, so they must have the same mediating particle. I might even be kind enough to provide the derivation but its probably on wiki, so ill only be accused of copying it

They are not the same thing, they are different parts of a unified reality. If you use the language of field theory, force has little meaning. When we discuss fundamental interactions, one uses the concept of an action. There is an action for a charged particle in an electromagnetic field and there is an action for the field itself. The action contains information about the dynamics of the EM field and the particle field (in Quantum Field Theory, everything is assigned a particular kind of field).

So, saying magnets emit virtual photons is completely bogus.

Not really. Its just a way, albeit a slightly informal one, of saying that magnets work by their electrons exchanging virtual photons.

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parsec

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Re: "Magnets, how do they work?"
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2010, 05:00:00 PM »
Please calculate the strength of an industrial sized magnet using Feynman's Diagrams. Thank you.

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EireEngineer

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Re: "Magnets, how do they work?"
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2010, 05:26:54 PM »
Kindly do the same using crazeticism.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: "Magnets, how do they work?"
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2010, 10:50:17 PM »
Please calculate the strength of an industrial sized magnet using Feynman's Diagrams. Thank you.

A proof stands alone. It is unnecessary to do this calculation, much like it is unnecessary to calculate the strength of Mike Tyson's left hook using ATP and muscle chemistry.

If you don't think that magnetism is carried by the photon, you are very stupid. The photon by definition is the carrier of the electromagnetic force. The magnetic force is a part of that, so it follows that magnetism is carried by photons.

Re: "Magnets, how do they work?"
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2010, 02:11:12 AM »
Magnetic fields and electic fields are actually the same thing just in different frames of reference, so they must have the same mediating particle. I might even be kind enough to provide the derivation but its probably on wiki, so ill only be accused of copying it

They are not the same thing, they are different parts of a unified reality. If you use the language of field theory, force has little meaning. When we discuss fundamental interactions, one uses the concept of an action. There is an action for a charged particle in an electromagnetic field and there is an action for the field itself. The action contains information about the dynamics of the EM field and the particle field (in Quantum Field Theory, everything is assigned a particular kind of field).

So, saying magnets emit virtual photons is completely bogus.

im a bit busy now but ill write out the derivation later. Stop thing about Feynamn diagrams  and just start thinking about how an electron going at high speed would see electric and magnetic fields from the lab frame, its actually fairly intuitive. Also please at least check wiki before calling me wrong. This is esentially what I will derive if i cba,
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Mathematically speaking, magnetic fields and electric fields are convertible with relative motion as a four vector.
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