How could a flat Earth be formed?

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How could a flat Earth be formed?
« on: June 29, 2010, 12:26:14 PM »
Every massed particle exerts gravity on every other particle, equal to the product of the masses multiplied by the gravitational constant divided by the square of the distance between them. We tend to group connected particles into aggregate gravity sources. That is, I exert gravitational force on this cup next to me, on the keys I'm typing on, and on the TV I'm watching, and they're exerting equal force on me.

But upon celestial formation, there is no aggregation. Particles existed in clouds, to be sure, but weren't connected in a way that they could considered to be a single body. As friction was non-existent, particles began to drift towards each other and form these aggregate masses. However, as gravity is radial, it can only make sense that a radial mass is formed. Now, it's true, enough rotational velocity could cause obliqueness in the shape, but this intense rotational speed would also launch off anything not secured directly to the mass, and would leave any resulting earth being nothing more than a metal disc. In addition, this disc would never slow unless something directly stopped it, but there's nothing that could do such a thing.

So, because natural formation is not possible, something would have had to artificially create a flat Earth, these celestial 'spotlights' that somehow make sense, and this Universal Accelerator, which definitely makes none.

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General Disarray

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Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 12:27:14 PM »
Magic.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 12:32:10 PM »
Magic.
I'm not a believer. I'm pointing out what I believe to be a hole in the theory.

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General Disarray

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Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 12:33:16 PM »
The only explanation I have seen for this is that the earth has "always been this way". Doesn't make sense to me either.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2010, 12:36:33 PM »
The only explanation I have seen for this is that the earth has "always been this way". Doesn't make sense to me either.
That's just asinine. Everything has a beginning.

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Johannes

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Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2010, 02:25:08 PM »
The only explanation I have seen for this is that the earth has "always been this way". Doesn't make sense to me either.
That's just asinine. Everything has a beginning.
How do you know this?

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2010, 02:27:07 PM »
The only explanation I have seen for this is that the earth has "always been this way". Doesn't make sense to me either.
That's just asinine. Everything has a beginning.
How do you know this?
Causality. For something to exist, it must have been created. You don't see apples spontaneously appearing at the bottom of trees, do you? No, they grow from the tree itself. Earth is not 'exotic' in any sense. It's made of matter just like everything else.

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Johannes

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Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2010, 03:33:08 PM »
The only explanation I have seen for this is that the earth has "always been this way". Doesn't make sense to me either.
That's just asinine. Everything has a beginning.
How do you know this?
Causality. For something to exist, it must have been created. You don't see apples spontaneously appearing at the bottom of trees, do you? No, they grow from the tree itself. Earth is not 'exotic' in any sense. It's made of matter just like everything else.
How was the matter that the RE earth is made of created?

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Lorddave

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Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2010, 03:43:45 PM »
The only explanation I have seen for this is that the earth has "always been this way". Doesn't make sense to me either.
That's just asinine. Everything has a beginning.
How do you know this?
Causality. For something to exist, it must have been created. You don't see apples spontaneously appearing at the bottom of trees, do you? No, they grow from the tree itself. Earth is not 'exotic' in any sense. It's made of matter just like everything else.
How was the matter that the RE earth is made of created?

Good question.
Except one small snag...


RE matter started out as basic sub-atomic particles and energy.  FE matter... well, that's not possible in an FE universe.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2010, 05:53:00 PM »
The only explanation I have seen for this is that the earth has "always been this way". Doesn't make sense to me either.
That's just asinine. Everything has a beginning.
How do you know this?
Causality. For something to exist, it must have been created. You don't see apples spontaneously appearing at the bottom of trees, do you? No, they grow from the tree itself. Earth is not 'exotic' in any sense. It's made of matter just like everything else.
How was the matter that the RE earth is made of created?
The currently accepted theory is a massive sphere of matter (Quarks at that point) that expanded and dispersed itself. How that sphere came into existence, we don't know, but a congruent mass makes a lot more sense than a disc-like planet that is not geographically symmetrical in any way just existing in space. The round Earth 'theory' says 'we don't know where it all began'. The flat Earth idea says 'it didn't begin'.

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2010, 05:57:17 PM »
Another thing I've noticed... This claim of a 'Universal Accelerator' says that everything is pushed upwards at 9.81 m/s squared. Now, if it doesn't push people too, they'd all be crushed. If it DID push people too, then nothing would cause them to go back downwards if, say, they decided to jump.

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2010, 06:25:09 PM »
The currently accepted theory is a massive sphere of matter (Quarks at that point) that expanded and dispersed itself. How that sphere came into existence, we don't know, but a congruent mass makes a lot more sense than a disc-like planet that is not geographically symmetrical in any way just existing in space. The round Earth 'theory' says 'we don't know where it all began'. The flat Earth idea says 'it didn't begin'.
No.
The Big Bang Theory does not start with a massive sphere of matter made of Quarks.
While ďWe donít knowĒ is a correct statement about everything in physics, we do know that there is clear and demonstrative evidence that the Universe could very well have started from a Big Bang. The point here is that RET does a much better job of explaining its origin, the cooling of the collision of two large bodies, one taking most of the heavier elements (the Earth) and the other less (the Moon) and that under the influence of ďgravityĒ they both pulled themselves into spheres, than does FET. For this reason, we should accept RET over FET.
Reference for the origin of the RE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_impact_hypothesis
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2010, 06:29:45 PM »
Another thing I've noticed... This claim of a 'Universal Accelerator' says that everything is pushed upwards at 9.81 m/s squared. Now, if it doesn't push people too, they'd all be crushed. If it DID push people too, then nothing would cause them to go back downwards if, say, they decided to jump.
You attack a strawman. People don't go back downwards, and it does push everything, those on its surface directly, those above its surface indirectly by pushing other things such as the atmolayer into them.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2010, 06:41:52 PM »
Another thing I've noticed... This claim of a 'Universal Accelerator' says that everything is pushed upwards at 9.81 m/s squared. Now, if it doesn't push people too, they'd all be crushed. If it DID push people too, then nothing would cause them to go back downwards if, say, they decided to jump.
You attack a strawman. People don't go back downwards, and it does push everything, those on its surface directly, those above its surface indirectly by pushing other things such as the atmolayer into them.
Based on your two posts, I'm confused on what your stance is... But the atmosphere is not 'heavy' enough to exert the same force that gravity does.

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2010, 06:44:07 PM »
Another thing I've noticed... This claim of a 'Universal Accelerator' says that everything is pushed upwards at 9.81 m/s squared. Now, if it doesn't push people too, they'd all be crushed. If it DID push people too, then nothing would cause them to go back downwards if, say, they decided to jump.

It pushes them in the same way that accelerating in your car pushes you.

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2010, 06:46:33 PM »
Another thing I've noticed... This claim of a 'Universal Accelerator' says that everything is pushed upwards at 9.81 m/s squared. Now, if it doesn't push people too, they'd all be crushed. If it DID push people too, then nothing would cause them to go back downwards if, say, they decided to jump.
You attack a strawman. People don't go back downwards, and it does push everything, those on its surface directly, those above its surface indirectly by pushing other things such as the atmolayer into them.
Based on your two posts, I'm confused on what your stance is... But the atmosphere is not 'heavy' enough to exert the same force that gravity does.
Again you attack a strawman. No one said that the atmolayer is heavy enough to exert the same force that gravity does. I state that the 'drag' of air pushing by a raindrop is the same, according to EP, in both RET and FET.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2010, 06:55:24 PM »
Another thing I've noticed... This claim of a 'Universal Accelerator' says that everything is pushed upwards at 9.81 m/s squared. Now, if it doesn't push people too, they'd all be crushed. If it DID push people too, then nothing would cause them to go back downwards if, say, they decided to jump.

It pushes them in the same way that accelerating in your car pushes you.
So the Earth is infinitely accelerating? In one direction?

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2010, 06:56:13 PM »
Another thing I've noticed... This claim of a 'Universal Accelerator' says that everything is pushed upwards at 9.81 m/s squared. Now, if it doesn't push people too, they'd all be crushed. If it DID push people too, then nothing would cause them to go back downwards if, say, they decided to jump.
You attack a strawman. People don't go back downwards, and it does push everything, those on its surface directly, those above its surface indirectly by pushing other things such as the atmolayer into them.
Based on your two posts, I'm confused on what your stance is... But the atmosphere is not 'heavy' enough to exert the same force that gravity does.
Again you attack a strawman. No one said that the atmolayer is heavy enough to exert the same force that gravity does. I state that the 'drag' of air pushing by a raindrop is the same, according to EP, in both RET and FET.
Right, but that drag isn't enough to cause a downward pull of 9.81 m/s squared.

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2010, 06:58:50 PM »
Another thing I've noticed... This claim of a 'Universal Accelerator' says that everything is pushed upwards at 9.81 m/s squared. Now, if it doesn't push people too, they'd all be crushed. If it DID push people too, then nothing would cause them to go back downwards if, say, they decided to jump.

It pushes them in the same way that accelerating in your car pushes you.
So the Earth is infinitely accelerating? In one direction?
No. FET with its infinitely accelerating disc is false. In FET, the UA has always been accelerating the FE at g as long as g has been measured, and only in one direction, up.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2010, 07:02:47 PM »
Another thing I've noticed... This claim of a 'Universal Accelerator' says that everything is pushed upwards at 9.81 m/s squared. Now, if it doesn't push people too, they'd all be crushed. If it DID push people too, then nothing would cause them to go back downwards if, say, they decided to jump.

It pushes them in the same way that accelerating in your car pushes you.
So the Earth is infinitely accelerating? In one direction?
No. FET with its infinitely accelerating disc is false. In FET, the UA has always been accelerating the FE at g as long as g has been measured, and only in one direction, up.
But that still means that the planet and its connecting bodies's velocities are approaching the speed of light. Or, at a rate of 9.81 m/s, assuming they haven't changed the age of the universe, already should have.

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2010, 07:03:59 PM »
Right, but that drag isn't enough to cause a downward pull of 9.81 m/s squared.
Please stop with the attacks on strawmen! No one said: drag is enough to cause a downward pull of 9.81 m/s squared. Drag creates acceleration in the upward direction, and itís not (except in circumstances, such as tornados, county fair rides, and wind tunnels) even close to g.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2010, 07:09:34 PM »
Another thing I've noticed... This claim of a 'Universal Accelerator' says that everything is pushed upwards at 9.81 m/s squared. Now, if it doesn't push people too, they'd all be crushed. If it DID push people too, then nothing would cause them to go back downwards if, say, they decided to jump.

It pushes them in the same way that accelerating in your car pushes you.
So the Earth is infinitely accelerating? In one direction?
No. FET with its infinitely accelerating disc is false. In FET, the UA has always been accelerating the FE at g as long as g has been measured, and only in one direction, up.
But that still means that the planet and its connecting bodies's velocities are approaching the speed of light. Or, at a rate of 9.81 m/s, assuming they haven't changed the age of the universe, already should have.

This assumption is for the most part accurate. There are many threads here that discuss this that you may want to read.

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2010, 07:11:18 PM »
Right, but that drag isn't enough to cause a downward pull of 9.81 m/s squared.
Please stop with the attacks on strawmen! No one said: drag is enough to cause a downward pull of 9.81 m/s squared. Drag creates acceleration in the upward direction, and itís not (except in circumstances, such as tornados, county fair rides, and wind tunnels) even close to g.

Well then stop saying things for the sake of saying them. You speak as if you're countering what I'm saying, which is why I appear to be attacking strawmen.

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2010, 07:19:08 PM »
But that still means that the planet and its connecting bodies's velocities are approaching the speed of light. Or, at a rate of 9.81 m/s, assuming they haven't changed the age of the universe, already should have.
Sorry, thatís insightful, but misses an important discovery that velocities donít add linearly. You can accelerate forever and never reach the speed of light. And do remember that velocity is relative and we donít really have an observer to measure our velocity against, as the ĎUí in UA stands for universal.
Reference regarding the adding of velocities: http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/mirrors/physicsfaq/Relativity/SR/velocity.html
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2010, 07:22:57 PM »
Right, but that drag isn't enough to cause a downward pull of 9.81 m/s squared.
Please stop with the attacks on strawmen! No one said: drag is enough to cause a downward pull of 9.81 m/s squared. Drag creates acceleration in the upward direction, and itís not (except in circumstances, such as tornados, county fair rides, and wind tunnels) even close to g.

Well then stop saying things for the sake of saying them. You speak as if you're countering what I'm saying, which is why I appear to be attacking strawmen.
I say things to help you understand. I am indeed countering what you're saying when you're not understanding a concept in FET. But I really need you to notice that you attack statements that no one said. For example, again: No one said: drag is enough to cause a downward pull of 9.81 m/s squared. Yet you post that you disagree with that statement. Why waste our time arguing over such statements? Please respect our time. Thanks.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2010, 11:31:45 PM »
But that still means that the planet and its connecting bodies's velocities are approaching the speed of light. Or, at a rate of 9.81 m/s, assuming they haven't changed the age of the universe, already should have.
Sorry, thatís insightful, but misses an important discovery that velocities donít add linearly. You can accelerate forever and never reach the speed of light. And do remember that velocity is relative and we donít really have an observer to measure our velocity against, as the ĎUí in UA stands for universal.
Reference regarding the adding of velocities: http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/mirrors/physicsfaq/Relativity/SR/velocity.html

Okay, but does this mean that this 'Universal Accelerator' also accelerates all other celestial bodies? Because otherwise, wouldn't the stars appear to change location?

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Johannes

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Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2010, 11:39:07 PM »
But that still means that the planet and its connecting bodies's velocities are approaching the speed of light. Or, at a rate of 9.81 m/s, assuming they haven't changed the age of the universe, already should have.
Sorry, thatís insightful, but misses an important discovery that velocities donít add linearly. You can accelerate forever and never reach the speed of light. And do remember that velocity is relative and we donít really have an observer to measure our velocity against, as the ĎUí in UA stands for universal.
Reference regarding the adding of velocities: http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/mirrors/physicsfaq/Relativity/SR/velocity.html

Okay, but does this mean that this 'Universal Accelerator' also accelerates all other celestial bodies? Because otherwise, wouldn't the stars appear to change location?
All visible celestial bodies.

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2010, 11:42:14 PM »
Okay, but does this mean that this 'Universal Accelerator' also accelerates all other celestial bodies? Because otherwise, wouldn't the stars appear to change location?
I understand that Daniel does not support that the UA affects everything. He mumbles quite incoherently about some photoelectric effect keeping the discs of the Sun and the Moon lifted and then suspended above the Earth. There doesnít seem to be a consensus within the FE community, as far as my use of ĎSearchí can tell. I have to say that you, as an FEer, should really know your own theory better and the FE Community really should be focusing on what they KNOW as opposed to what they make up. Something must keep some of the things above us up and still explain falling objects, like meteors, that donít stay up. Iíll leave the FE work to your team though, okay?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2010, 11:43:29 PM »
But that still means that the planet and its connecting bodies's velocities are approaching the speed of light. Or, at a rate of 9.81 m/s, assuming they haven't changed the age of the universe, already should have.
Sorry, thatís insightful, but misses an important discovery that velocities donít add linearly. You can accelerate forever and never reach the speed of light. And do remember that velocity is relative and we donít really have an observer to measure our velocity against, as the ĎUí in UA stands for universal.
Reference regarding the adding of velocities: http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/mirrors/physicsfaq/Relativity/SR/velocity.html

Okay, but does this mean that this 'Universal Accelerator' also accelerates all other celestial bodies? Because otherwise, wouldn't the stars appear to change location?
All visible celestial bodies.
Praytell would keeps the shadow object up then? Why do meteors fall?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Johannes

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Re: How could a flat Earth be formed?
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2010, 11:47:53 PM »
But that still means that the planet and its connecting bodies's velocities are approaching the speed of light. Or, at a rate of 9.81 m/s, assuming they haven't changed the age of the universe, already should have.
Sorry, thatís insightful, but misses an important discovery that velocities donít add linearly. You can accelerate forever and never reach the speed of light. And do remember that velocity is relative and we donít really have an observer to measure our velocity against, as the ĎUí in UA stands for universal.
Reference regarding the adding of velocities: http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/mirrors/physicsfaq/Relativity/SR/velocity.html

Okay, but does this mean that this 'Universal Accelerator' also accelerates all other celestial bodies? Because otherwise, wouldn't the stars appear to change location?
All visible celestial bodies.
Praytell would keeps the shadow object up then? Why do meteors fall?
The shadow object doesn't exist.

Please look up equivalence principle.