Which is right, Adam and Eve, or Evolution

Very interesting video! That was news to me, but it seems very logical. Linnaeus' system for classifying species is undoubtedly flawed, but I didn't know until now to what extent.

Humans == Monkeys

Taxonomy becomes very difficult, one could argue almost to the point of uselessness, when applied to the distant past.

Evolution, obviously.

Feel free to discuss

What the fuck is this bullshit? Can a mod either move this thread to a less serious forum or ban him for being a troll?

Who in the hell is actually paying attention to what threads go where? Lets hand out bans for the way people use the n word but let retards shit up the upper fora with obvious poorly thought out troll threads.

I said, Adam and Eve, or Evolution..

I never asked who how or why Adam and Eve / Monkeys were put on earth, but rather which is more likely to be the reason im posting this reply

You phrased the question wrong. Many Christians, myself included, believe in evolution and Adam and Eve; and I'm not just talking about bacteria building resistance to antibiotics. I'm talking about macro-evolution on a massive scale.

Quote from: Lorddave on June 23, 2010, 04:53:11 PM

Except that the great flood wiped out all humans except one extended family. 

Not only that but you gotta explain the massive amount of genetic diversity required to sustain a population.  If you took 2 random people, put them into an isolated colony where all they had to do was eat, sleep, and breed.... you'd have a dead colony in about 100 years or so.

As I recall I spent an entire thread arguing with babsinva over this (to no avail).

What if those two individuals were more genetically robust, and God played a part in the evolution of their descendants from generation to generation? Could it work then?

Quote from: Myjafjallajokul on June 23, 2010, 09:09:41 PM

Quote from: Lorddave on June 23, 2010, 04:53:11 PM

Except that the great flood wiped out all humans except one extended family. 

Not only that but you gotta explain the massive amount of genetic diversity required to sustain a population.  If you took 2 random people, put them into an isolated colony where all they had to do was eat, sleep, and breed.... you'd have a dead colony in about 100 years or so.

As I recall I spent an entire thread arguing with babsinva over this (to no avail).

What if those two individuals were more genetically robust, and God played a part in the evolution of their descendants from generation to generation? Could it work then?

Evolution would not allow something as complex as a human being, or complex multicellular organisms to suddenly appear.  It predicts that they evolved into their current forms from simplier organisms, and the fossil records and genetic evidence reveals exactly that in brilliant detail.

Quote from: guilt08 on June 23, 2010, 07:17:31 AM

Evolution, obviously.

Feel free to discuss

What the fuck is this bullshit? Can a mod either move this thread to a less serious forum or ban him for being a troll?

Who in the hell is actually paying attention to what threads go where? Lets hand out bans for the way people use the n word but let retards shit up the upper fora with obvious poorly thought out troll threads.

I don't think he was trying to be retarded but rather he was hoping to bait some christians to say evolution is false. He failed though as we have none here that believe this.

It is true he was trolling though as you said since he was trying to get some reaction from people.

Quote from: Raist on June 26, 2010, 06:02:10 AM

Quote from: guilt08 on June 23, 2010, 07:17:31 AM

Evolution, obviously.

Feel free to discuss

What the fuck is this bullshit? Can a mod either move this thread to a less serious forum or ban him for being a troll?

Who in the hell is actually paying attention to what threads go where? Lets hand out bans for the way people use the n word but let retards shit up the upper fora with obvious poorly thought out troll threads.

I don't think he was trying to be retarded but rather he was hoping to bait some christians to say evolution is false. He failed though as we have none here that believe this.

It is true he was trolling though as you said since he was trying to get some reaction from people.

That is my point. He is a shitty troll. He was trying to bait the christfags, yet he did so in a way that he showed he lacked any knowledge on the subject himself. Adam and Eve have literally nothing to do with evolution and neither is "right" because one is a group of people and the other is a process. How could either be "right"?

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on June 26, 2010, 02:37:43 PM

Quote from: Raist on June 26, 2010, 06:02:10 AM

Quote from: guilt08 on June 23, 2010, 07:17:31 AM

Evolution, obviously.

Feel free to discuss

What the fuck is this bullshit? Can a mod either move this thread to a less serious forum or ban him for being a troll?

Who in the hell is actually paying attention to what threads go where? Lets hand out bans for the way people use the n word but let retards shit up the upper fora with obvious poorly thought out troll threads.

I don't think he was trying to be retarded but rather he was hoping to bait some christians to say evolution is false. He failed though as we have none here that believe this.

It is true he was trolling though as you said since he was trying to get some reaction from people.

That is my point. He is a shitty troll. He was trying to bait the christfags, yet he did so in a way that he showed he lacked any knowledge on the subject himself. Adam and Eve have literally nothing to do with evolution and neither is "right" because one is a group of people and the other is a process. How could either be "right"?

I agree. He isn't a troll that was trying to make a retarded thread, he is just a retarded troll. As for the thread, I say keep it since Markus and Canadark seem to be in the middle of something that actually has substence.

That is my point. He is a shitty troll. He was trying to bait the christfags, yet he did so in a way that he showed he lacked any knowledge on the subject himself. Adam and Eve have literally nothing to do with evolution and neither is "right" because one is a group of people and the other is a process. How could either be "right"?

This is arguably valid.  Sure, scientifically, it's undeniably true, but in the minds of many people it's a polarized debate topic.  I would go so far as to conjecture that the majority of American's think this is a plausible question.  Many are told all throughout their childhood that if you believe in evolution then you are rejecting the bible and rejecting the bible is tantamount to rejecting Jesus.  In this context you can clearly see how someone can mount an Adam and Eve or evolution mentality. 

So while, yes, Adam and Eve have nothing to do with evolution, you can see why people think that it is debatable as they are mutually exclusive.  Now, here is were the important part comes in.  This question could have been phrased to address this type of mentality.  While evolution is undeniably provable and Genesis is a myth, this is a question that represents the mentality of an age; the spirit of the times -- however shameful it may be. 

A troll?  Perhaps.  More likely, it's someone rehashing a misunderstood debate that is sadly plaguing humanity.  Our duty is to resoundingly obliterate these arguments whenever they present themselves, however tedious they prove themselves to be.

Quote from: Raist on June 26, 2010, 02:41:20 PM

That is my point. He is a shitty troll. He was trying to bait the christfags, yet he did so in a way that he showed he lacked any knowledge on the subject himself. Adam and Eve have literally nothing to do with evolution and neither is "right" because one is a group of people and the other is a process. How could either be "right"?

This is arguably valid.  Sure, scientifically, it's undeniably true, but in the minds of many people it's a polarized debate topic.  I would go so far as to conjecture that the majority of American's think this is a plausible question.  Many are told all throughout their childhood that if you believe in evolution then you are rejecting the bible and rejecting the bible is tantamount to rejecting Jesus.  In this context you can clearly see how someone can mount an Adam and Eve or evolution mentality. 

So while, yes, Adam and Eve have nothing to do with evolution, you can see why people think that it is debatable as they are mutually exclusive.  Now, here is were the important part comes in.  This question could have been phrased to address this type of mentality.  While evolution is undeniably provable and Genesis is a myth, this is a question that represents the mentality of an age; the spirit of the times -- however shameful it may be. 

A troll?  Perhaps.  More likely, it's someone rehashing a misunderstood debate that is sadly plaguing humanity.  Our duty is to resoundingly obliterate these arguments whenever they present themselves, however tedious they prove themselves to be.

I agree with you for the most part but I think that you are getting hoisted by your own petard here. Presupposing that Genesis is false is a matter of faith just as assuming that it is true is a matter of faith. The fact that evolution is undeniably provable does not exclude the possibility that Adam and Eve as described in the Bible were real people. I'm not arguing that this is evidence to support my religion, as it would be totally unreasonable for me to ground my belief in the Bible on that fact the you cannot logically disprove it. All I am saying is that nothing in the Bible has ever led me to believe that evolution and creation are mutually exclusive.

All I am saying is that nothing in the Bible has ever led me to believe that evolution and creation are mutually exclusive.

Then allow me to enlighten you.  In between the endless begets, mass genocides, and dull narrative are the occasional passages of God's love for mankind.  God is portrayed as someone who loves humanity and would never deceive them.  In this book, inspired by God, is a story of how the world was created.  It lists in detail when God created what and the length of time taken to preform each act.  Now, we now know that this is false.  So, if you believe in God, you have a contradiction.  Did God create the earth as it claims, or did it create the earth such a way to intentionally deceive all of mankind by placing fossils in the ground?  Furthermore, if anyone fell for God's rouse, and subsequently rejected it on those grounds, they would be eternally tortured by its command.

To reiterate, you have two choices.  First, you can either deny that evolution ever happened and say that everything was created in present form, or you can accept that evolution happened and reject the bible's story.  The third option, saying that both are true is inherently contradictory and therefore not an option at all; an all loving/caring being wouldn't try to fool us by placing fossils in the ground.

Now, your expected reply would be to say that you think Adam and Eve are real and evolution happened.  For starters, that statement would need a lot more clarification for me to be able to argue it.  Such as, did God create them or were they evolved as well?  Did God pluck them out of a population of people and give just the two of them the chance at eternal ignorance and bliss? 

Here is a video arguing Noah's Arc that may shed some light as to why Adam and Eve couldn't have been the only two people on earth.

Quote from: Raist on June 26, 2010, 02:41:20 PM

That is my point. He is a shitty troll. He was trying to bait the christfags, yet he did so in a way that he showed he lacked any knowledge on the subject himself. Adam and Eve have literally nothing to do with evolution and neither is "right" because one is a group of people and the other is a process. How could either be "right"?

This is arguably valid.  Sure, scientifically, it's undeniably true, but in the minds of many people it's a polarized debate topic.  I would go so far as to conjecture that the majority of American's think this is a plausible question.  Many are told all throughout their childhood that if you believe in evolution then you are rejecting the bible and rejecting the bible is tantamount to rejecting Jesus.  In this context you can clearly see how someone can mount an Adam and Eve or evolution mentality. 

So while, yes, Adam and Eve have nothing to do with evolution, you can see why people think that it is debatable as they are mutually exclusive.  Now, here is were the important part comes in.  This question could have been phrased to address this type of mentality.  While evolution is undeniably provable and Genesis is a myth, this is a question that represents the mentality of an age; the spirit of the times -- however shameful it may be. 

A troll?  Perhaps.  More likely, it's someone rehashing a misunderstood debate that is sadly plaguing humanity.  Our duty is to resoundingly obliterate these arguments whenever they present themselves, however tedious they prove themselves to be.

Sigh, I was not saying it is the old tactic of calling abiogenesis evolution. I was saying that his question literally does not make sense. In a grammatical sense as well as a logical sense.