Zeteticsim vs. Science.

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sokarul

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Re: Zeteticsim vs. Science.
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2010, 06:15:14 PM »
Medicine is actually a Zetetic Science where the researcher puts the experiment first, conclusions after.
So they just give people random drugs? O that's right, they don't.  They already have a drug they think will do something. Then they test it. 

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Hypothesis/Conclusion does not come first as the Scientific Method instructs. In Zeteticism the experiment must come before the conclusion.
Scientific method does not say the conclution comes first. 

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When they want to know how different chemicals will react to red blood cells, for example, they create rooms and rooms of vials which test each and every result for the desired cause.
Yes the scientific method would allow that. 
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They do the same with the "Folding at Home" project. It tests each and every possibility methodically to find a suitable result.
You don't know what fah does.

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There aren't any hypothesis' when it comes to medicine. When you want results you start with the experiment stage first, conclusions after. That's how you find the truth. Samuel Birley Rowbotham knew this very well.
False.  Like I stated, one would just be throwing compounds at people until they saw something.  This is not what pharmaceutical companies do. 
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Modern Medicine is a Zetetic Science. Doctor Samuel Birley Rowbotham even contributed to its establishment his very own self.
Not even close to true. 
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Zeteticsim vs. Science.
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2010, 06:22:29 PM »
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So they just give people random drugs?

They certainly test random drugs on biological samples, or small creatures, to see what works and what does not.

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Scientific method does not say the conclution comes first.  

The Scientific Method says that one must hypothesize first and then create an experiment around that hypothesis.

The Zetetic Method says that one must experiment first, letting the results speak for themselves.

Medical chemists certainly use the Zetetic Method for creating drugs. See the Folding at Home project. The project goes through a rapid series of different configurations to see what works and what does not.

Experiment first, conclude after. That's how the truth is found.

When you hypothesize first and create an experiment around that hypothesis your experiment is fallacious because you are deliberately proving whatever you are trying to prove. Finding the absolute truth of the matter has nothing to do with the Scientific Method. With the Scientific Method you are attempting to prove your idea true.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 07:20:28 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Lorddave

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Re: Zeteticsim vs. Science.
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2010, 06:58:57 PM »
Medicine is actually a Zetetic Science where the researcher puts the experiment first, conclusions after.

Hypothesis/Conclusion does not come first as the Scientific Method instructs. In Zeteticism the experiment must come before the conclusion.

When they want to know how different chemicals will react to red blood cells, for example, they create rooms and rooms of vials which test each and every result for the desired cause.

They do the same with the "Folding at Home" project. It tests each and every possibility methodically to find a suitable result.

There aren't any hypothesis' when it comes to medicine. When you want results you start with the experiment stage first, conclusions after. That's how you find the truth. Samuel Birley Rowbotham knew this very well.

Modern Medicine is a Zetetic Science. Doctor Samuel Birley Rowbotham even contributed to its establishment his very own self.

In the old days(14th century), yes.  They had an illness and tested random stuff to see what happens.  Although even they had hypothesises.  If chewing root X cured you, then root X cures you of the disease you have.  That's a hypothesis.

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sokarul

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Re: Zeteticsim vs. Science.
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2010, 08:25:33 PM »

They certainly test random drugs on biological samples, or small creatures, to see what works and what does not.
They would still have a hypothesis if they did it like that. 

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The Scientific Method says that one must hypothesize first and then create an experiment around that hypothesis.

The Zetetic Method says that one must experiment first, letting the results speak for themselves.
If you just experiment you will never be able to find what you are looking for.  You will also not be able to remove all the variables. 
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Medical chemists certainly use the Zetetic Method for creating drugs. See the Folding at Home project. The project goes through a rapid series of different configurations to see what works and what does not.
Folding @ home (fah) folds proteins.  They check for the lowest energy. The run certain proteins. This is in no way Zetetic Method.   
Here is what they do.
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Experiment first, conclude after. That's how the truth is found.
How do you set up an experiment when you don't even know what you are looking for? 
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When you hypothesize first and create an experiment around that hypothesis your experiment is fallacious because you are deliberately proving whatever you are trying to prove. Finding the absolute truth of the matter has nothing to do with the Scientific Method. With the Scientific Method you are attempting to prove your idea true.
You are trying to show your hypothesis. It either fails or it doesn't fail.  You actually know what you are looking for so you can remove all the variables except the ones you want to test.   
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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Zeteticsim vs. Science.
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2010, 11:23:27 PM »
Medicine is actually a Zetetic Science where the researcher puts the experiment first, conclusions after.

Hypothesis/Conclusion does not come first as the Scientific Method instructs. In Zeteticism the experiment must come before the conclusion.

When they want to know how different chemicals will react to red blood cells, for example, they create rooms and rooms of vials which test each and every result for the desired cause.

They do the same with the "Folding at Home" project. It tests each and every possibility methodically to find a suitable result.

There aren't any hypothesis' when it comes to medicine. When you want results you start with the experiment stage first, conclusions after. That's how you find the truth. Samuel Birley Rowbotham knew this very well.

Modern Medicine is a Zetetic Science. Doctor Samuel Birley Rowbotham even contributed to its establishment his very own self.

Incorrect.
Doctors use hypoitheses all the time.
how else would you know what to test for, if you could only test for one.
Granted you can use the brute force method, but doctors can't always test for everything.

The first thing actually is observation, aka patient history and where does it hurt.
then comes expirement if necessary.
with your method, how will you solve the cases?


You seem to not understnad the difference between hypothesis and conclusion.
The beginning of the SM, is observation and hypothesis, much like Zeteicism. then they test even more to see if they are right, which is unlike Zeteticism, where you assume your initial logic to be correct.