A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map

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Sliver

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2010, 06:39:36 PM »
:sigh:  You're not even trying anymore, dude.

Why ask a question if you aren't going to accept the answer you're given?
I was preparing this whole post about you trolling, when it hit me.  Anti-North.  Anti being a synonym for opposite, would make Anti-North the same thing as South.  So, with that map, heading south, you would still be heading south even after you passed the south pole.

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Parsifal

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2010, 08:28:00 PM »
I was preparing this whole post about you trolling, when it hit me.  Anti-North.  Anti being a synonym for opposite, would make Anti-North the same thing as South.  So, with that map, heading south, you would still be heading south even after you passed the south pole.

North and south are not opposites.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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General Disarray

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2010, 08:34:58 PM »
North and south are not opposites.

Please provide evidence for this statement.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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Sliver

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2010, 08:38:20 PM »
I was preparing this whole post about you trolling, when it hit me.  Anti-North.  Anti being a synonym for opposite, would make Anti-North the same thing as South.  So, with that map, heading south, you would still be heading south even after you passed the south pole.

North and south are not opposites.
Than what exactly is their relationship?

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Parsifal

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2010, 08:55:18 PM »
Than what exactly is their relationship?

The same relationship as any other two directions have, in general: none.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Sliver

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2010, 09:20:53 PM »
Than what exactly is their relationship?

The same relationship as any other two directions have, in general: none.
BS and you know it, loser.  East and west are opposite, north and south are opposite.  You're just posting nonsense to aggravate me and derail the thread.

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Parsifal

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #66 on: June 09, 2010, 10:16:48 PM »
BS and you know it, loser.  East and west are opposite, north and south are opposite.  You're just posting nonsense to aggravate me and derail the thread.

Is somebody in Vancouver travelling north moving in the opposite direction to someone in Helsinki travelling south?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Misterkami

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2010, 04:44:11 AM »
BS and you know it, loser.  East and west are opposite, north and south are opposite.  You're just posting nonsense to aggravate me and derail the thread.

Is somebody in Vancouver travelling north moving in the opposite direction to someone in Helsinki travelling south?
Not in RET model. However their paths do cross after going aroudn the world so you could say they have been going roughly in opposite directions. Also North and South are only opposite of each other in reference to the viewpoint of one person.
In FET model I'm not sure. It depends on which FET model and map you use. Using the map presented in this thread I'd say they're either indeed moving in opposite direction (taking north as the top of the map and south as the bottow) or moving in different directions at an angle of about 90 degrees (taking the large piece of ice in the top part as the north pole and the large piece of ice in the lower part as the south pole.
Of course it also depend on if we mean the magnetic pole or the geographical pole..

Now, to get back on topic:
The image I posted has no ice wall, since I got it from the Wiki, and no one has made any changes to it, such as adding an ice wall, I'd say that's proof enough. 

I wasn't aware maps were intended as absolutely accurate portrayals of reality.

Also, you'll notice in the original image, there is a longitude line, known commonly as the Prime Meridian.  That would be your line of travel.  Now, I ask again, with a little more clarification, what happens when a traveler, heading due south along the Prime Meridian, reaches the edge of the Earth?

I understood perfectly well what you meant; unless you can show me a navigational method which allows one to travel in a perfectly straight line, your argument is void because this could not feasibly happen. If there were some magical device enabling a traveller to do this, they would reach the ice wall.
I'd say that if someone (using the map of this thread) traveled from Ghana, then crossed Antarctica and on the other side encountered the island group seen crossing the red line (whether it is New Zealand or Hawaii.. kinda hard to tell with this map) pretty much has confirmation of traveling in a straigh line. Just continue like that from that moment on and you should be getting to the infamous edge soon   
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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2010, 08:50:44 AM »
North and south are not opposites.

Question for all you FES regulars: Is this the dumbest thing anyone's ever said on FES or is it the dumbest thing anyone's ever said ever?

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Catchpa

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2010, 09:43:37 AM »
It's Parsifail.
The conspiracy do train attack-birds

Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2010, 10:20:14 AM »

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Catchpa

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2010, 10:28:05 AM »
It's not really dumb because you know he's just trolling. If you want to hear the dumbest, read Levees posts.. Or James if you believe he's a believer.
The conspiracy do train attack-birds

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Parsifal

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2010, 12:31:33 PM »
Not in RET model. However their paths do cross after going aroudn the world so you could say they have been going roughly in opposite directions. Also North and South are only opposite of each other in reference to the viewpoint of one person.
In FET model I'm not sure. It depends on which FET model and map you use. Using the map presented in this thread I'd say they're either indeed moving in opposite direction (taking north as the top of the map and south as the bottow) or moving in different directions at an angle of about 90 degrees (taking the large piece of ice in the top part as the north pole and the large piece of ice in the lower part as the south pole.
Of course it also depend on if we mean the magnetic pole or the geographical pole..

So the answer is "no." Thanks for clearing that up.

I'd say that if someone (using the map of this thread) traveled from Ghana, then crossed Antarctica and on the other side encountered the island group seen crossing the red line (whether it is New Zealand or Hawaii.. kinda hard to tell with this map) pretty much has confirmation of traveling in a straigh line. Just continue like that from that moment on and you should be getting to the infamous edge soon

You can't tell whether a curve is a straight line or not using that method; Antarctica is wide enough to permit various different curves between Ghana and New Zealand which pass over it. Even if you could, just because you've been moving in a straight line previously doesn't mean you will continue to do so. Furthermore, you still haven't explained what navigational method should be used to ensure one is travelling in a straight line; what does "just continu[ing] like that" mean, exactly? Continue like what? What navigational method was used to ensure that one ended up in New Zealand and not Tasmania? Your whole argument relies on just coincidentally happening to be moving in a straight line.

Oh, and I find it incredible that you can't tell the difference between Hawaii and New Zealand. Hint: One thing this map doesn't lack is an Equator.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #73 on: June 10, 2010, 12:51:33 PM »
It's not really dumb because you know he's just trolling. If you want to hear the dumbest, read Levees posts.. Or James if you believe he's a believer.

Ah, but as I'm sure he himself would tell you if he weren't so caught up in the scintillating debate he's having, his beliefs are irrelevant to the question of whether what he says is dumb.

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Catchpa

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #74 on: June 10, 2010, 02:23:48 PM »
Anything Parsifal ever says is irrelevant. He'll never state what exactly he means, and he'll tell people stuff is wrong without actually explaining how it is. Example:

Quote
Oh, and I find it incredible that you can't tell the difference between Hawaii and New Zealand. Hint: One thing this map doesn't lack is an Equator.

Notice how he didn't tell you WHERE it was on the map. This is a common trait when Parsifal posts and it seems many other "FE'ers" have adopted this method, even Lord Wilmore has degenerated to this level of rhetorics.
The conspiracy do train attack-birds

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Parsifal

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #75 on: June 10, 2010, 03:07:44 PM »
Anything Parsifal ever says is irrelevant. He'll never state what exactly he means, and he'll tell people stuff is wrong without actually explaining how it is. Example:

Quote
Oh, and I find it incredible that you can't tell the difference between Hawaii and New Zealand. Hint: One thing this map doesn't lack is an Equator.

Notice how he didn't tell you WHERE it was on the map. This is a common trait when Parsifal posts and it seems many other "FE'ers" have adopted this method, even Lord Wilmore has degenerated to this level of rhetorics.

It's the line that goes through all the places on Earth that are on the Equator.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Sliver

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #76 on: June 10, 2010, 08:04:21 PM »
Not in RET model. However their paths do cross after going aroudn the world so you could say they have been going roughly in opposite directions. Also North and South are only opposite of each other in reference to the viewpoint of one person.
In FET model I'm not sure. It depends on which FET model and map you use. Using the map presented in this thread I'd say they're either indeed moving in opposite direction (taking north as the top of the map and south as the bottow) or moving in different directions at an angle of about 90 degrees (taking the large piece of ice in the top part as the north pole and the large piece of ice in the lower part as the south pole.
Of course it also depend on if we mean the magnetic pole or the geographical pole..

So the answer is "no." Thanks for clearing that up.

I'd say that if someone (using the map of this thread) traveled from Ghana, then crossed Antarctica and on the other side encountered the island group seen crossing the red line (whether it is New Zealand or Hawaii.. kinda hard to tell with this map) pretty much has confirmation of traveling in a straigh line. Just continue like that from that moment on and you should be getting to the infamous edge soon

You can't tell whether a curve is a straight line or not using that method; Antarctica is wide enough to permit various different curves between Ghana and New Zealand which pass over it. Even if you could, just because you've been moving in a straight line previously doesn't mean you will continue to do so. Furthermore, you still haven't explained what navigational method should be used to ensure one is travelling in a straight line; what does "just continu[ing] like that" mean, exactly? Continue like what? What navigational method was used to ensure that one ended up in New Zealand and not Tasmania? Your whole argument relies on just coincidentally happening to be moving in a straight line.

Oh, and I find it incredible that you can't tell the difference between Hawaii and New Zealand. Hint: One thing this map doesn't lack is an Equator.
Take a compass, find north, turn the compass so north is directly behind you, off you go.  Now keep going, always keeping north directly behind you.  That work for you, Parsitroll?

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Parsifal

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #77 on: June 10, 2010, 08:07:32 PM »
Take a compass, find north, turn the compass so north is directly behind you, off you go.  Now keep going, always keeping north directly behind you.  That work for you, Parsitroll?

Sure, but what does travelling to the Earth's magnetic north pole prove?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Sliver

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #78 on: June 10, 2010, 09:43:02 PM »
Take a compass, find north, turn the compass so north is directly behind you, off you go.  Now keep going, always keeping north directly behind you.  That work for you, Parsitroll?

Sure, but what does travelling to the Earth's magnetic north pole prove?
Um, the directions I just gave would be for traveling AWAY from Earth's magnetic north pole.  Which on the map I posted, would lead you beyond the magnetic south pole.

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Parsifal

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #79 on: June 10, 2010, 11:12:19 PM »
Um, the directions I just gave would be for traveling AWAY from Earth's magnetic north pole.  Which on the map I posted, would lead you beyond the magnetic south pole.

The directions you gave would lead one to the Earth's magnetic north pole. Try picking up an electromagnetism textbook sometime.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Sliver

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #80 on: June 10, 2010, 11:36:31 PM »
Um, the directions I just gave would be for traveling AWAY from Earth's magnetic north pole.  Which on the map I posted, would lead you beyond the magnetic south pole.

The directions you gave would lead one to the Earth's magnetic north pole. Try picking up an electromagnetism textbook sometime.
How?  If the compass needle is pointing north, and you keep the needle pointing BEHIND you, you are heading south.  Try reading some simple orienteering books.  Do you need a diagram? 

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Parsifal

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #81 on: June 10, 2010, 11:41:05 PM »
How?  If the compass needle is pointing north, and you keep the needle pointing BEHIND you, you are heading south.  Try reading some simple orienteering books.  Do you need a diagram?

The needle doesn't point north, the needle aligns itself with the local magnetic field. To keep magnetic north behind you, you need to walk in the direction that the magnetic south pole of the compass is pointing. Which type of magnetic pole attracts a magnetic south pole?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #82 on: June 11, 2010, 12:49:56 AM »
How?  If the compass needle is pointing north, and you keep the needle pointing BEHIND you, you are heading south.  Try reading some simple orienteering books.  Do you need a diagram?

The needle doesn't point north, the needle aligns itself with the local magnetic field. To keep magnetic north behind you, you need to walk in the direction that the magnetic south pole of the compass is pointing. Which type of magnetic pole attracts a magnetic south pole?

So north is not the opposite direction from south? That's what you're saying?

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trig

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #83 on: June 11, 2010, 08:10:57 AM »
How?  If the compass needle is pointing north, and you keep the needle pointing BEHIND you, you are heading south.  Try reading some simple orienteering books.  Do you need a diagram?

The needle doesn't point north, the needle aligns itself with the local magnetic field. To keep magnetic north behind you, you need to walk in the direction that the magnetic south pole of the compass is pointing. Which type of magnetic pole attracts a magnetic south pole?

So north is not the opposite direction from south? That's what you're saying?
Parsifal is just trolling. He is giving small snippets of truth but avoiding the real issues, since he has no argument at all for them.

If there was any truth in this map, there would be answers for the obvious questions, that can be answered by the people who live in The USA, for example, and that had their continent curiously stretched to twice its length and into a strange, convoluted shape. Or answers to why Australia is about three times longer in the North-South direction. Or why the angle between North and East is not 90 degrees, especially in Australia.

Parsifal likes any discussion about what happens in Antarctica because then he does not have to deal with the issues here and now, where people live and travel and see the Sun and the Moon where they would never be if this concoction of a map were true.

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Parsifal

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #84 on: June 11, 2010, 11:12:00 AM »
So north is not the opposite direction from south? That's what you're saying?

In general, yes.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #85 on: June 11, 2010, 12:54:02 PM »
How?  If the compass needle is pointing north, and you keep the needle pointing BEHIND you, you are heading south.  Try reading some simple orienteering books.  Do you need a diagram?

The needle doesn't point north, the needle aligns itself with the local magnetic field. To keep magnetic north behind you, you need to walk in the direction that the magnetic south pole of the compass is pointing. Which type of magnetic pole attracts a magnetic south pole?

So north is not the opposite direction from south? That's what you're saying?
The geographical South Pole is somewhere around the magnetic north pole.
That's magnetism, you know. Opposite magnetic poles feeling sexually attracted to each other and whatnot.
tl;dr;wtf: Parsifal is not trolling.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #86 on: June 11, 2010, 01:38:35 PM »
Far from troling, Parsifal is demonstrating an understanding of basic concepts that most of you appear not to understand. The best way to understand this is to imagine that the 'lattitude' and 'longitude' lines are the magnetic field lines (though this is not strictly accurate). Travelling North involves following the field lines, not heading in a fixed direction.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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General Disarray

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #87 on: June 11, 2010, 01:43:16 PM »
Field lines which have never been demonstrated as being possible on a flat surface.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 02:07:57 PM by General Disarray »
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trig

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #88 on: June 11, 2010, 02:03:31 PM »
Far from troling, Parsifal is demonstrating an understanding of basic concepts that most of you appear not to understand. The best way to understand this is to imagine that the 'lattitude' and 'longitude' lines are the magnetic field lines (though this is not strictly accurate). Travelling North involves following the field lines, not heading in a fixed direction.
And why, then, the East direction and the North direction are not even at right angles on most of the world?

Or why the distances that are, in the real world, all the same are so diverging in this map?

This map has parallels painted every 15o, or 900 nautical miles away. In this map, there are at least differences of 3 to 1 between some parallels in some places compared to others. I guess the name parallel has to change.

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Misterkami

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Re: A Few Issues With the OTHER FES Map
« Reply #89 on: June 11, 2010, 04:00:17 PM »
I think the flight times argument alone would already rule out this map.. Now, as long as we're on the subject of magnetism and poles.. Since this map is quite radically differently from the global one most of had learnt about in school, can a FE'er tell us, just to be sure, where the magnetic north and south are on it? They migt be completely somewhere other than most of us expect.
(Of course I ask this question realizing that this map is not intended as an absolutely accurate portrayal of reality. A rough estimate of which continent has which pole will do)

btw, just out of curiosity and not meaning to lead this away from the main thread.. the islands roughtly under the red line.. which island group is it actually?
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