Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.

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zork

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #180 on: July 01, 2010, 11:43:31 AM »
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

  They can also read paper Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth before going on the plane and educate their kids basing on that.
educate their kids and read before
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
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http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

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EireEngineer

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #181 on: July 03, 2010, 06:15:03 PM »
Went for a flight this morning, and I can see the curvature just fine. Angie had a good idea. We can depressurize the cabin, and take a look out the passenger way. Of course it will be breaking a few FAA rules, but what they dont see wont hurt us.  Gotta replace the emergency oxy once in awhile anyway, so this will be a cheap test.  So, the next time one of you FETs is in Denver, you will have to stop by and go for a flight.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

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Johannes

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #182 on: July 03, 2010, 07:45:31 PM »
Went for a flight this morning, and I can see the curvature just fine. Angie had a good idea. We can depressurize the cabin, and take a look out the passenger way. Of course it will be breaking a few FAA rules, but what they dont see wont hurt us.  Gotta replace the emergency oxy once in awhile anyway, so this will be a cheap test.  So, the next time one of you FETs is in Denver, you will have to stop by and go for a flight.
What altitude were you at when you saw the curvature?

Did you take a picture?

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EireEngineer

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #183 on: July 03, 2010, 07:53:16 PM »
Went for a flight this morning, and I can see the curvature just fine. Angie had a good idea. We can depressurize the cabin, and take a look out the passenger way. Of course it will be breaking a few FAA rules, but what they dont see wont hurt us.  Gotta replace the emergency oxy once in awhile anyway, so this will be a cheap test.  So, the next time one of you FETs is in Denver, you will have to stop by and go for a flight.
What altitude were you at when you saw the curvature?

Did you take a picture?
Like you would accept a picture as evidence. That is why you need to hang your head out with nothing but goggles to distort your view.

And winds were favorable aloft today at 460, so that was where we stayed.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

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Johannes

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #184 on: July 03, 2010, 08:38:59 PM »
Went for a flight this morning, and I can see the curvature just fine. Angie had a good idea. We can depressurize the cabin, and take a look out the passenger way. Of course it will be breaking a few FAA rules, but what they dont see wont hurt us.  Gotta replace the emergency oxy once in awhile anyway, so this will be a cheap test.  So, the next time one of you FETs is in Denver, you will have to stop by and go for a flight.
What altitude were you at when you saw the curvature?

Did you take a picture?
Like you would accept a picture as evidence. That is why you need to hang your head out with nothing but goggles to distort your view.

And winds were favorable aloft today at 460, so that was where we stayed.
460? Units please.

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Raver

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #185 on: July 04, 2010, 02:15:39 AM »
Went for a flight this morning, and I can see the curvature just fine. Angie had a good idea. We can depressurize the cabin, and take a look out the passenger way. Of course it will be breaking a few FAA rules, but what they dont see wont hurt us.  Gotta replace the emergency oxy once in awhile anyway, so this will be a cheap test.  So, the next time one of you FETs is in Denver, you will have to stop by and go for a flight.
What altitude were you at when you saw the curvature?

Did you take a picture?
Like you would accept a picture as evidence. That is why you need to hang your head out with nothing but goggles to distort your view.

And winds were favorable aloft today at 460, so that was where we stayed.
460? Units please.

Lightyears, obviously..... -.-
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Sure, whatever

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Raver

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #186 on: July 04, 2010, 02:17:32 AM »
Sorry if that seemed rude, but people need to read before posting (google is cool you know)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level
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markjo

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #187 on: July 04, 2010, 07:14:19 AM »
Sorry if that seemed rude, but people need to read before posting (google is cool you know)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level

Then he should have said FL460.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2010, 07:16:17 AM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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EireEngineer

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #188 on: July 04, 2010, 07:19:06 AM »
You are correct.  Sorry, when I type fast the technical jargon doesnt get filtered out.  46,000 Ft Above Mean Sea Level.
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markjo

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #189 on: July 04, 2010, 07:21:48 AM »
You are correct.  Sorry, when I type fast the technical jargon doesnt get filtered out.  46,000 Ft Above Mean Sea Level.

Actually, Flight Level refers to pressure altitude, not true altitude:
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level
A Flight Level (FL) is a standard nominal altitude  of an aircraft, in hundreds of feet. This altitude is calculated from the International standard pressure datum of 1013.25 hPa (29.92 inHg), the average sea-level pressure, and therefore is not necessarily the same as the aircraft's true altitude either above mean sea level or above ground level.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Raver

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #190 on: July 04, 2010, 07:25:26 AM »
You are correct.  Sorry, when I type fast the technical jargon doesnt get filtered out.  46,000 Ft Above Mean Sea Level.

Actually, Flight Level refers to pressure altitude, not true altitude:
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level
A Flight Level (FL) is a standard nominal altitude  of an aircraft, in hundreds of feet. This altitude is calculated from the International standard pressure datum of 1013.25 hPa (29.92 inHg), the average sea-level pressure, and therefore is not necessarily the same as the aircraft's true altitude either above mean sea level or above ground level.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2010, 07:27:07 AM by Raver »
Quote from: Gen. Douchebag
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Why? You a pedo out for delicious loli?
Sure, whatever

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EireEngineer

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #191 on: July 04, 2010, 08:45:56 AM »
True, but if it is off, its not off by much.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

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markjo

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #192 on: July 05, 2010, 10:28:43 AM »
Barometric altitude can vary from true altitude by quite a bit depending on the weather.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

EireEngineer

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #193 on: July 05, 2010, 05:11:19 PM »
Which is why there is a knob for correcting for changes, based on data from the nearest weather station.   The system isnt perfect, but given the cost of effective radio altimeters, its about the best that we can get.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #194 on: July 07, 2010, 05:11:45 PM »
Went for a flight this morning, and I can see the curvature just fine. Angie had a good idea. We can depressurize the cabin, and take a look out the passenger way. Of course it will be breaking a few FAA rules, but what they dont see wont hurt us.  Gotta replace the emergency oxy once in awhile anyway, so this will be a cheap test.  So, the next time one of you FETs is in Denver, you will have to stop by and go for a flight.
What altitude were you at when you saw the curvature?

Did you take a picture?
Like you would accept a picture as evidence. That is why you need to hang your head out with nothing but goggles to distort your view.

And winds were favorable aloft today at 460, so that was where we stayed.

You depresserized at 46k?   What aircraft?

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EireEngineer

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #195 on: July 09, 2010, 07:30:03 AM »
If you read at all closely, you would have seen that I never claimed we had done it yet, only that it was a possibility.  We checked the POH for the Citation X Wardog, and it certainly is possible, though there needs to be a bit of a mod made to the door to be able to open and close it again at that speed and altitude.  A citation has manually depressurized before with no ill effects to the aircraft, that time due to a faulty sensor. But its nothing that cant absolutely be done.  However, I think I may have found an even simpler and less risky way. I can just take a window of a flat earther's choosing, and attach a couple of these solid state flex sensors  I have to the inside and the outside of the window.  These can measure variations down to about .5mm, though I am sure there are more sensitive (and more expensive) options out there.  The microcontroller code and supporting electronics would be at the skill level of a hobbiest, so I will post a schematic once I test it out.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #196 on: July 09, 2010, 11:41:21 AM »
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

Ok then, maybe explain how when i go down to my beach hut i can sea the curvature of the earth? or have you never been to the beach? because i'm pretty sure there's no glass to be bent by the seaside...

Ooooh unless the government has some theory where they have surrounded every coastline in flexi glass :O

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #197 on: July 09, 2010, 11:46:05 AM »
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

Ok then, maybe explain how when i go down to my beach hut i can sea the curvature of the earth? or have you never been to the beach? because i'm pretty sure there's no glass to be bent by the seaside...

Ooooh unless the government has some theory where they have surrounded every coastline in flexi glass :O

You can't see the curvature of the Earth from ground level.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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EireEngineer

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #198 on: July 09, 2010, 12:12:31 PM »
Well, you can, but they try to use bendy light to explain it, and say telescopes resolve the rest of the ship lol.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #199 on: July 09, 2010, 12:18:51 PM »
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

Ok then, maybe explain how when i go down to my beach hut i can sea the curvature of the earth? or have you never been to the beach? because i'm pretty sure there's no glass to be bent by the seaside...

Ooooh unless the government has some theory where they have surrounded every coastline in flexi glass :O

You can't see the curvature of the Earth from ground level.

Im sorry... but come to my beachut and say that to me again.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #200 on: July 09, 2010, 12:36:56 PM »
Im sorry... but come to my beachut and say that to me again.

No thanks, I've been to the beach before and verified it for myself.

Well, you can

No you can't.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #201 on: July 09, 2010, 01:06:25 PM »
Right here goes...

I will draw a sraight line on this photo so you can see the curvature for yourself :D


EDIT I decided it was too obvious to need a straight line, this must have been a very clear day, on top of a very high cliff, it's not normally this noticable :)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 01:12:11 PM by dell »

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #202 on: July 09, 2010, 01:22:27 PM »
Right here goes...

I will draw a sraight line on this photo so you can see the curvature for yourself :D


EDIT I decided it was too obvious to need a straight line, this must have been a very clear day, on top of a very high cliff, it's not normally this noticable :)


No, I see no curvature at all.  You'd better draw that straight line.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #203 on: July 09, 2010, 02:19:38 PM »
Right here goes...

I will draw a sraight line on this photo so you can see the curvature for yourself :D


EDIT I decided it was too obvious to need a straight line, this must have been a very clear day, on top of a very high cliff, it's not normally this noticable :)


Ruler maybe?? if you place it so it is level with the horizon on both ends, the dark blue rises over the ruler edge in the middle :)
No, I see no curvature at all.  You'd better draw that straight line.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #204 on: July 09, 2010, 02:23:38 PM »
Right here goes...

I will draw a sraight line on this photo so you can see the curvature for yourself :D


EDIT I decided it was too obvious to need a straight line, this must have been a very clear day, on top of a very high cliff, it's not normally this noticable :)


Ruler maybe?? if you place it so it is level with the horizon on both ends, the dark blue rises over the ruler edge in the middle :)
No, I see no curvature at all.  You'd better draw that straight line.

I tried that.  The horizon seemed to stay level with the ruler to me.  Are you incapable of using graphics software to draw a straight line?  ???
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #205 on: July 09, 2010, 02:27:17 PM »
Dude. I don't think you can see the Earths curvature from ground level by eye. There are a few papers on this. I think above about 60,000 it can be seen. commerical airliners are hard, you can I think you a lens that removes barrel distortion and a stright line to aid the eye. Its also a bit dependent on humitidy and what not. Although I grant you I just 'GIMPed' a line onto that and there is a curve but I suspect it may be the cameras lens. That said you do have a very clear day there, but still, ground level.....

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #206 on: July 09, 2010, 02:34:15 PM »
Dude. I don't think you can see the Earths curvature from ground level by eye. There are a few papers on this. I think above about 60,000 it can be seen. commerical airliners are hard, you can I think you a lens that removes barrel distortion and a stright line to aid the eye. Its also a bit dependent on humitidy and what not. Although I grant you I just 'GIMPed' a line onto that and there is a curve but I suspect it may be the cameras lens. That said you do have a very clear day there, but still, ground level.....

I don't mean to be a bother, but can you post your 'GIMPed' picture since dell doesn't seem willing (or able) to do this himself?  Although I suspect you're right if there is some minute curvature visible that the picture was simply taken with a wide angle lens.  It looks like there's some perspective distortion in the foreground as well, though it's a bit hard to tell for sure.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #207 on: July 09, 2010, 02:34:34 PM »
Right here goes...

I will draw a sraight line on this photo so you can see the curvature for yourself :D


EDIT I decided it was too obvious to need a straight line, this must have been a very clear day, on top of a very high cliff, it's not normally this noticable :)


Ruler maybe?? if you place it so it is level with the horizon on both ends, the dark blue rises over the ruler edge in the middle :)
No, I see no curvature at all.  You'd better draw that straight line.

I tried that.  The horizon seemed to stay level with the ruler to me.  Are you incapable of using graphics software to draw a straight line?  ???

Im sorry, im new to posting on forums, so i could (and have) put a straight line on it, however i am clueless as how to re-upload the edited picture.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #208 on: July 09, 2010, 02:35:28 PM »
Im sorry, im new to posting on forums, so i could (and have) put a straight line on it, however i am clueless as how to re-upload the edited picture.

You have to host it with tinypic or a similar site.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
« Reply #209 on: July 09, 2010, 02:38:27 PM »
Im sorry, im new to posting on forums, so i could (and have) put a straight line on it, however i am clueless as how to re-upload the edited picture.

You have to host it with tinypic or a similar site.

Ok ta, well i will look into that, as i plan to become a more frequent poster on this site :D

And thank you for respecting my lack of knowledge rather than ripping me for it as Pizzaplanet seems to have done :/
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=40620.0