A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #150 on: June 07, 2010, 07:22:40 AM »
The point is, FE'ers have to use the proven-correct Scientific Method to be taken seriously by anyone.  It's not flawed, as you think it is.  Zeteticism is incomplete, so is FET.

More than that, FET does not even meet Zetetic standards, much less scientific ones. Most aspects of FET require you to already make the assumption that the earth is flat, and blatantly contradict observed evidence.

And they wonder why nobody takes them seriously.  Imagine if they tried to publish their Zetetic findings in a scientific journal.  It'd be laughable.

Trolling makes me angry.

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trig

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #151 on: June 07, 2010, 08:07:20 PM »
Also, how could someone see the sun sink below the horizon and conclude that light must be bending? A true zetetic's response would be that the sun is doing exactly what it appears to be doing, sinking below the horizon.
In my opinion, this is the best ever demonstration that Zeteticism implies that the Sun does not hover over Earth.

I did the Zetetic meditation exercise and found out that nobody can ever find out the shape of the Earth, and that everyone who really cleans out his/her memory of all preconceptions and previous knowledge has to agree with me when I say that the shape of the Earth is unknowable, because I cannot see all of it at once.

Now, tell me why my Zetetic meditation is bad and Rowbotham's or James' meditation is right. I say mine is better, because it is better cleansed of all preconceptions.

Of course, as a real scientist, I give no relevance to my Zetetic Meditation, whatsoever. It only serves to show how unreliable Zetetic Meditation is. Each person that honestly tries it will get a different result for the same problem.

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #152 on: June 08, 2010, 05:16:47 AM »
The flat guys have deserted this thread. I think we can stop disproving them now.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #153 on: June 08, 2010, 07:07:36 AM »
The flat guys have deserted this thread. I think we can stop disproving them now.

It's just too easy sometimes.

Trolling makes me angry.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #154 on: June 08, 2010, 08:00:55 AM »
Or, you're all making mind-numbingly stupid arguments that expose your ignorance regarding the Zetetic method. I mean, seriously, FAQ, Earth Not a Globe. This is fundamental stuff guys.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Crustinator

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #155 on: June 08, 2010, 08:03:18 AM »
Or, you're all making mind-numbingly stupid arguments that expose your ignorance regarding the Zetetic method.

Expose our ignorance oh master.

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General Disarray

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #156 on: June 08, 2010, 08:05:21 AM »
Or, you're all making mind-numbingly stupid arguments that expose your ignorance regarding the Zetetic method. I mean, seriously, FAQ, Earth Not a Globe. This is fundamental stuff guys.

How can one see the sun sinking below the horizon, conclude that their senses must be wrong, and make up something that must be deceiving their senses to explain it according to the Zetetic method?
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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Catchpa

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #157 on: June 08, 2010, 08:06:57 AM »
It seems we're going off James, apparently wrong, definition. Please enlighten us what the real definition is, Wilmore.


Theoretic (globular) Method:
Invented Hypothesis (made up by scientist) -> Testing to Corroborate Hypothesis -> Conclusion (modified version of original hypothesis to fit evidence)

Zetetic Method:
Zetetic Meditations reveal either
The "immediate and demonstrable causes" of the phenomena in question (i.e., no a priori theorising) - no further investigation
OR
a set of "manifest and undeniable facts" of the matter, in which case:

Facts derived from ZM -> stringent logical analysis ("what is naturally and fairly deducible therefrom").

More info available at: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za04.htm

Theoretic method is the process of attempting to bolster a preconceived hypothesis, with selective attention to evidence which supports the case (this is how globularism came about).

Zetetic method provides direct access to the actual truth, through the dual procedure: Zetetic Meditation followed by Logical Analysis.
 (This is how the true shape of the Earth was discovered).

The difference in method is important!

NB: The Zetetic Process, in full, is a two-fold investigative method. Unresolved classes of facts revealed by Zetetic Meditations are subjected to the second part of the proecdure, logical analysis.
The conspiracy do train attack-birds

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #158 on: June 08, 2010, 08:14:45 AM »
Funny how you assume James is the one who is wrong.


How can one see the sun sinking below the horizon, conclude that their senses must be wrong, and make up something that must be deceiving their senses to explain it according to the Zetetic method?


How would you reach the conclusion that the Earth is round based on that? One piece of data is just one piece of data. It should not lead to several assumptions which are all used to support one another.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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General Disarray

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #159 on: June 08, 2010, 08:17:50 AM »
Funny how you assume James is the one who is wrong.


How can one see the sun sinking below the horizon, conclude that their senses must be wrong, and make up something that must be deceiving their senses to explain it according to the Zetetic method?


How would you reach the conclusion that the Earth is round based on that? One piece of data is just one piece of data. It should not lead to several assumptions which are all used to support one another.

It would lead me to believe that the sun is actually sinking below the horizon, exactly what it appears to be doing.

If I investigated further, from different spots on the earth at the same time of day, I would find that the sun rises at one location as it is setting at another. The only configuration I know of that can accomplish this is a round earth that is either spinning, or the sun is rotating around it.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #160 on: June 08, 2010, 08:55:10 AM »
How would you reach the conclusion that the Earth is round based on that? One piece of data is just one piece of data. It should not lead to several assumptions which are all used to support one another.

One would not conclude that the earth is round based on that. What I'm wondering is why you would conclude that the light is deceiving you. Apparently you believe that the sun never goes "below" the earth, and yet you have seen this phenomenon thousands of times. What part of the zetetic method allows you to assume your senses are deceiving you? Great meditation about what things are deceptive and what things aren't?

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General Disarray

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #161 on: June 08, 2010, 09:02:04 AM »
To me, the "immediate and demonstratable cause" of the sun appearing to sink below the horizon is that it is sinking below the horizon. It is a "manifest and undeniable fact".

"Stringent logical analysis" of the fact that the sun rises in other parts of the world at the same time that it sets here lead me to believe that the earth is round and spinning. Direct access to the actual truth led me to discover the true shape of the earth.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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markjo

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #162 on: June 08, 2010, 01:25:33 PM »
How can one see the sun sinking below the horizon, conclude that their senses must be wrong, and make up something that must be deceiving their senses to explain it according to the Zetetic method?

How would you reach the conclusion that the Earth is round based on that? One piece of data is just one piece of data. It should not lead to several assumptions which are all used to support one another.

Well, since the sun can not possibly sink below the horizon of a flat earth, then one can logically conclude that the earth must be some other shape.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Skeleton

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #163 on: June 08, 2010, 04:01:31 PM »
I assert it might be a cube. Prove me wrong.
If the ultimate objective is to kill Skeleton, we should just do that next.

Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #164 on: June 08, 2010, 04:35:43 PM »
I assert it might be a cube. Prove me wrong.

Lurk moar?  Conspiracy?  Irrelevant?  That sums it up.

Trolling makes me angry.

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Lorddave

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #165 on: June 08, 2010, 05:14:34 PM »
It should not lead to several assumptions which are all used to support one another.

I'm quoting this because this is pure, absolute Hippocratic.

FET is based on several assumptions which are all used to support one another.  One being "The Earth is Flat", which is used to support "Sky Mirror", "UA", "Bendy Light", "Celestial Gears", "Conspiracy", ect....

All of which can't be proven by FE standards BTW.

Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #166 on: June 08, 2010, 05:52:59 PM »
I can't believe I missed that... explain yourself, Willy?

Trolling makes me angry.

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markjo

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #167 on: June 08, 2010, 07:29:46 PM »
I assert it might be a cube. Prove me wrong.

Actually, it's your obligation to support your assertion.  I have no obligation to prove you wrong.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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trig

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #168 on: June 09, 2010, 03:29:42 AM »
I assert it might be a cube. Prove me wrong.
If you did your Zetetic meditation and came to that conclusion, and have an observation that supports your meditated assertion, like "the mountains seem like corners of a cube", for example, then that is your Zetetic truth.

I will stay with science, if you don't mind.

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Crustinator

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #169 on: June 09, 2010, 03:36:26 AM »
Actually, it's your obligation to support your assertion.  I have no obligation to prove you wrong.

You are the one coming here with your claims. The burden of proof is on you. It is you who must prove to us that the earth is not a cube as accepted by the majority of scientists. Etc etc.

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markjo

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #170 on: June 09, 2010, 04:31:16 AM »
Actually, it's your obligation to support your assertion.  I have no obligation to prove you wrong.

You are the one coming here with your claims. The burden of proof is on you. It is you who must prove to us that the earth is not a cube as accepted by the majority of scientists. Etc etc.

Nope.  I just said that the earth can't be flat.  You're the one claiming that it's a cube.  You have made an assertion completely unrelated to mine, therefore I have no obligation to support or refute it whatsoever.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Thermal Detonator

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #171 on: June 09, 2010, 04:52:30 AM »
Actually, it's your obligation to support your assertion.  I have no obligation to prove you wrong.

You are the one coming here with your claims. The burden of proof is on you. It is you who must prove to us that the earth is not a cube as accepted by the majority of scientists. Etc etc.

Instant fail triggered.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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Crustinator

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #172 on: June 09, 2010, 03:55:37 PM »
I just said that the earth can't be flat.

Please provide evidence for this assertion. Use ships logs if required. You may also claim to have data supporting your case but refuse to show it. The burden of proof is on you. This is not the "the earth can't be flat" site. You are the one coming here with your outlandish claims. Here it is defacto that the earth is flat. The burden of proof is on you.

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zork

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #173 on: July 04, 2010, 11:52:34 AM »
How was Ichi's moonlight experiment zetetic? It seems he researched about moonlight and therefore interpreted that was harmful, then later made further experiments to see if it was true. His hypothesis being "Moonlight is harmful to plants".
  I really wonder if he researched the effects of the moonlight. It seems to me that he researched the effects of the absence of the sunlight.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
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http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

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markjo

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Re: A FE'er please explain Zetetisicm
« Reply #174 on: July 05, 2010, 10:22:31 AM »
I just said that the earth can't be flat.

Please provide evidence for this assertion. Use ships logs if required. You may also claim to have data supporting your case but refuse to show it. The burden of proof is on you. This is not the "the earth can't be flat" site. You are the one coming here with your outlandish claims. Here it is defacto that the earth is flat. The burden of proof is on you.

Watch the sun set.  Since the sun cannot move below the surface of a flat earth, that is direct evidence that the earth can not be flat.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.