The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #150 on: June 21, 2010, 07:09:20 AM »
So to recap the moon has no atmosphere, but it does and we aren't accelerating, but we are.

And zetetics apparently don't own gravimeters or accelerometers.

And you call us trolls.  ::)

To recap: the moon has a very tiny atmospehere and no weather system. We arent accelerating, and surely not thanks to UA. Zetetics owns only the instruments they like, and discard all that dont like.

Yessir, FEs are troll.
Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that zetetics discard instruments they "don't like"?
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #151 on: June 21, 2010, 07:10:10 AM »
We arent accelerating
So, i dont feel acceleration, but it happens.
Yeah we are not accelerating.

You hardly know what you believe and we are expected to take abuse from you about what we believe?

source?
also, how do you explain microgravity?
I'll see if I can dig up the article.  They gave it to a foreign leader as a good will gift.

microgravity does not conflict with my beliefs.  I don't believe in UA.

Ok, i know, you are the one playing on words just to dont answer. And what "we" refers to? I think to earth: earth is not accelerating.

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General Disarray

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #152 on: June 21, 2010, 07:11:08 AM »
Just so you know, we are actually accelerating regardless of the shape of the earth.

However I do find it extremely hard to believe that there is life on the moon, and even harder to believe that it is luminescent and migrates in exactly in the patterns we would see if the earth were round and orbiting the sun with the moon in orbit around us.
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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #153 on: June 21, 2010, 07:12:36 AM »
So to recap the moon has no atmosphere, but it does and we aren't accelerating, but we are.

And zetetics apparently don't own gravimeters or accelerometers.

And you call us trolls.  ::)

To recap: the moon has a very tiny atmospehere and no weather system. We arent accelerating, and surely not thanks to UA. Zetetics owns only the instruments they like, and discard all that dont like.

Yessir, FEs are troll.
Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that zetetics discard instruments they "don't like"?

Yes. They dont like every instruments proving the earth is round, like satellites, GPS, shuttles, telescopes, lunar modules, LRO, LCROSS, and so many others that surely i am forgiving.

Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #154 on: June 21, 2010, 07:15:24 AM »
Just so you know, we are actually accelerating regardless of the shape of the earth.

However I do find it extremely hard to believe that there is life on the moon, and even harder to believe that it is luminescent and migrates in exactly in the patterns we would see if the earth were round and orbiting the sun with the moon in orbit around us.

Sorry man, the earth is accelerating?

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General Disarray

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #155 on: June 21, 2010, 07:18:32 AM »
Just so you know, we are actually accelerating regardless of the shape of the earth.

However I do find it extremely hard to believe that there is life on the moon, and even harder to believe that it is luminescent and migrates in exactly in the patterns we would see if the earth were round and orbiting the sun with the moon in orbit around us.

Sorry man, the earth is accelerating?

We are accelerating directly downwards at 9.81 m/s2, that's what keeps us stuck to the ground, that's what gravity is.
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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #156 on: June 21, 2010, 07:40:25 AM »
Just so you know, we are actually accelerating regardless of the shape of the earth.

However I do find it extremely hard to believe that there is life on the moon, and even harder to believe that it is luminescent and migrates in exactly in the patterns we would see if the earth were round and orbiting the sun with the moon in orbit around us.

Sorry man, the earth is accelerating?

We are accelerating directly downwards at 9.81 m/s2, that's what keeps us stuck to the ground, that's what gravity is.

Yes, but because of space-time distortion due to huge masses, not because of UA.

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General Disarray

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #157 on: June 21, 2010, 07:43:26 AM »
Which is the difference between the RE model and theirs, but we are accelerating.
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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #158 on: June 21, 2010, 07:53:14 AM »
Just so you know, we are actually accelerating regardless of the shape of the earth.

However I do find it extremely hard to believe that there is life on the moon, and even harder to believe that it is luminescent and migrates in exactly in the patterns we would see if the earth were round and orbiting the sun with the moon in orbit around us.
Of course it doesn't migrate.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #159 on: June 21, 2010, 07:54:47 AM »
We arent accelerating
So, i dont feel acceleration, but it happens.
Yeah we are not accelerating.

You hardly know what you believe and we are expected to take abuse from you about what we believe?

source?
also, how do you explain microgravity?
I'll see if I can dig up the article.  They gave it to a foreign leader as a good will gift.

microgravity does not conflict with my beliefs.  I don't believe in UA.

Ok, i know, you are the one playing on words just to dont answer. And what "we" refers to? I think to earth: earth is not accelerating.
I have no issue answering your questions and have repeatedly.

I also am not playing on words.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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General Disarray

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #160 on: June 21, 2010, 08:53:27 AM »
Just so you know, we are actually accelerating regardless of the shape of the earth.

However I do find it extremely hard to believe that there is life on the moon, and even harder to believe that it is luminescent and migrates in exactly in the patterns we would see if the earth were round and orbiting the sun with the moon in orbit around us.
Of course it doesn't migrate.

I must be confusing James' model with yours, it is hard to keep them straight. How does the life on the moon produce the light patterns we see, and why do they exactly match up with what we would expect from the RE rotation model?

EDIT: I wouldn't have to ask so many questions if you would fill in the section for your model on the wiki.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 09:00:00 AM by General Disarray »
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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #161 on: June 21, 2010, 10:31:09 AM »
Anyway man, we are not stuck on the earth because of we are accelerating, but because the earth causes space-time distortion.
We agree on this?

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #162 on: June 21, 2010, 12:14:01 PM »
Anyway man, we are not stuck on the earth because of we are accelerating, but because the earth causes space-time distortion.
We agree on this?
no.
A) GR is still only one model, that isn't compatible with QM
B) We are still accelerating through Euclidean space.

Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #163 on: June 21, 2010, 12:26:22 PM »
Anyway man, we are not stuck on the earth because of we are accelerating, but because the earth causes space-time distortion.
We agree on this?
no.
A) GR is still only one model, that isn't compatible with QM
B) We are still accelerating through Euclidean space.

Yes but nowadays GR is the best model that fits reality... And you say we are accelerating because of big bang or what? We are accelerating within the solar system. Because the earth, in the solar system, is not accelerating, or it's better saying it is accelerating when it is near the sun and decelerating when it is far.

Am i correct? Just asking, i m not an astrophysic.

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #164 on: June 21, 2010, 12:55:51 PM »
Anyway man, we are not stuck on the earth because of we are accelerating, but because the earth causes space-time distortion.
We agree on this?
no.
A) GR is still only one model, that isn't compatible with QM
B) We are still accelerating through Euclidean space.

Yes but nowadays GR is the best model that fits reality... And you say we are accelerating because of big bang or what? We are accelerating within the solar system. Because the earth, in the solar system, is not accelerating, or it's better saying it is accelerating when it is near the sun and decelerating when it is far.

Am i correct? Just asking, i m not an astrophysic.
Actually GR is only the best for very large things. QED is equally if not a better theory for small things.
in FEH, GR is revoked completely, as all of the concepts about gravity are denied. relative to the aether we are accelerating up wards at a rate of g along with the heavens.  the sun and moon are circling above the earth like vultures. In GR and the rest of physics, the aether doesn't exist. also, the Earth is always accelerating around the sun. acceleration is not only change in speed, but change in direction. now of course according to GR, the earth isn't accelerating at all, but rather going straight along the geodesic of space-time.

Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #165 on: June 21, 2010, 01:04:55 PM »
Anyway man, we are not stuck on the earth because of we are accelerating, but because the earth causes space-time distortion.
We agree on this?
no.
A) GR is still only one model, that isn't compatible with QM
B) We are still accelerating through Euclidean space.

Yes but nowadays GR is the best model that fits reality... And you say we are accelerating because of big bang or what? We are accelerating within the solar system. Because the earth, in the solar system, is not accelerating, or it's better saying it is accelerating when it is near the sun and decelerating when it is far.

Am i correct? Just asking, i m not an astrophysic.
Actually GR is only the best for very large things. QED is equally if not a better theory for small things.
in FEH, GR is revoked completely, as all of the concepts about gravity are denied. relative to the aether we are accelerating up wards at a rate of g along with the heavens.  the sun and moon are circling above the earth like vultures. In GR and the rest of physics, the aether doesn't exist. also, the Earth is always accelerating around the sun. acceleration is not only change in speed, but change in direction. now of course according to GR, the earth isn't accelerating at all, but rather going straight along the geodesic of space-time.

Really things get gomplicated...

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #166 on: June 21, 2010, 01:25:33 PM »
Anyway man, we are not stuck on the earth because of we are accelerating, but because the earth causes space-time distortion.
We agree on this?
no.
A) GR is still only one model, that isn't compatible with QM
B) We are still accelerating through Euclidean space.

Yes but nowadays GR is the best model that fits reality... And you say we are accelerating because of big bang or what? We are accelerating within the solar system. Because the earth, in the solar system, is not accelerating, or it's better saying it is accelerating when it is near the sun and decelerating when it is far.

Am i correct? Just asking, i m not an astrophysic.
Actually GR is only the best for very large things. QED is equally if not a better theory for small things.
in FEH, GR is revoked completely, as all of the concepts about gravity are denied. relative to the aether we are accelerating up wards at a rate of g along with the heavens.  the sun and moon are circling above the earth like vultures. In GR and the rest of physics, the aether doesn't exist. also, the Earth is always accelerating around the sun. acceleration is not only change in speed, but change in direction. now of course according to GR, the earth isn't accelerating at all, but rather going straight along the geodesic of space-time.

Really things get gomplicated...
Yeah you're telling me. GR is basically bendy space theory.
what I really hate about the FE use of SR and GR, is that first relies on experiments carried out in space aka the lasers, and the latter requires gravity

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #167 on: June 21, 2010, 01:30:44 PM »
The ether exists in relativity.  See: Ether and the Theory of Relativity, Einstein

Relativity can exist within fet.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #168 on: June 21, 2010, 01:43:49 PM »
The ether exists in relativity.  See: Ether and the Theory of Relativity, Einstein

Relativity can exist within fet.
No it doesn't:
"The general attitude to this amongst physicists today is that although it is purely a matter of semantics, Einstein's comments stretch the word "aether" too far: it is argued that an "aether" with no mechanical properties doesn't correspond to the historical idea of aether, and so it is potentially misleading to apply this name to the spacetime field of general relativity"

"Today the idea of aether, what Albert Michelson called "one of the grandest generalizations of modern science", is regarded as a superseded scientific theory."

Thanks for playing.

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #169 on: June 22, 2010, 01:37:56 AM »
Anyway man, we are not stuck on the earth because of we are accelerating, but because the earth causes space-time distortion.
We agree on this?
Thats not exactly true; 

One can have flat spacetime and still have gravitational pull.  Consider the equivalence principle.  If no tidal forces are present, then spacetime is flat.  Even though spacetime is flat, we still note gravitational pull (or a uniform accelerating FoR.)
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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #170 on: June 22, 2010, 01:44:02 AM »
The ether exists in relativity.  See: Ether and the Theory of Relativity, Einstein

Relativity can exist within fet.
No it doesn't:
"The general attitude to this amongst physicists today is that although it is purely a matter of semantics, Einstein's comments stretch the word "aether" too far: it is argued that an "aether" with no mechanical properties doesn't correspond to the historical idea of aether, and so it is potentially misleading to apply this name to the spacetime field of general relativity"

"Today the idea of aether, what Albert Michelson called "one of the grandest generalizations of modern science", is regarded as a superseded scientific theory."

Thanks for playing.
Not at all.  Einsteins ether has mechanical properties: "To deny the ether is ultimately to assume that empty space has no physical qualities whatever. The fundamental facts of mechanics do not harmonize with this view."

Your issue is that you are saying Luminiferous aether is what we are talking about.  It is not.  Even if it was, it was not disproven.

The issue is people don't like the word.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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General Disarray

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #171 on: June 22, 2010, 06:03:52 AM »
How does the life on the moon produce the light patterns we see, and why do they exactly match up with what we would expect from the RE rotation model?

EDIT: I wouldn't have to ask so many questions if you would fill in the section for your model on the wiki.
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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #172 on: June 22, 2010, 11:19:58 AM »
How does the life on the moon produce the light patterns we see, and why do they exactly match up with what we would expect from the RE rotation model?

EDIT: I wouldn't have to ask so many questions if you would fill in the section for your model on the wiki.
Sorry meant to answer that and must have just forgotten.  Eclipses and the moon phases are due to a weather pattern that passes over the moon.  These are regular cyclical events that happen based on gravitational influences, much like tides on the Earth.

THe red happens at the end of the biomasses life cycle.

I'll try to fill in my wiki page this week.  I've got a huge contract thats over due, but after that will have a lot of time for flat earth.
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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #173 on: June 22, 2010, 12:34:36 PM »
The ether exists in relativity.  See: Ether and the Theory of Relativity, Einstein

Relativity can exist within fet.
No it doesn't:
"The general attitude to this amongst physicists today is that although it is purely a matter of semantics, Einstein's comments stretch the word "aether" too far: it is argued that an "aether" with no mechanical properties doesn't correspond to the historical idea of aether, and so it is potentially misleading to apply this name to the spacetime field of general relativity"

"Today the idea of aether, what Albert Michelson called "one of the grandest generalizations of modern science", is regarded as a superseded scientific theory."

Thanks for playing.
Not at all.  Einsteins ether has mechanical properties: "To deny the ether is ultimately to assume that empty space has no physical qualities whatever. The fundamental facts of mechanics do not harmonize with this view."

Your issue is that you are saying Luminiferous aether is what we are talking about.  It is not.  Even if it was, it was not disproven.

The issue is people don't like the word.
no, the theory of aether is wrong.
aether as the universal inertial reference frame is wrong.
aether as the medium for light is wrong
aether as the fifth element is wrong


"In physics  there is no concept considered exactly analogous to the aether"

"The general attitude to this amongst physicists[who?]  today is that although it is purely a matter of semantics, Einstein's comments stretch the word "aether" too far: it is argued that an "aether" with no mechanical properties doesn't correspond to the historical idea of aether, and so it is potentially misleading to apply this name to the spacetime field of general relativity"

"Hendrik Lorentz and George Francis FitzGerald offered within the framework of Lorentz ether theory a more elegant solution to how the motion of an absolute aether could be undetectable (length contraction), but if their equations were correct, Albert Einstein's 1905 special theory of relativity could generate the same mathematics without referring to an aether at all. This led most physicists to conclude that the classical notion of aether was not a useful concept."

It doesn't take a genius of reading comprehension to figure out the old idea of aether is wrong.
it is current in name only

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #174 on: June 22, 2010, 02:08:31 PM »
The ether exists in relativity.  See: Ether and the Theory of Relativity, Einstein

Relativity can exist within fet.
No it doesn't:
"The general attitude to this amongst physicists today is that although it is purely a matter of semantics, Einstein's comments stretch the word "aether" too far: it is argued that an "aether" with no mechanical properties doesn't correspond to the historical idea of aether, and so it is potentially misleading to apply this name to the spacetime field of general relativity"

"Today the idea of aether, what Albert Michelson called "one of the grandest generalizations of modern science", is regarded as a superseded scientific theory."

Thanks for playing.
Not at all.  Einsteins ether has mechanical properties: "To deny the ether is ultimately to assume that empty space has no physical qualities whatever. The fundamental facts of mechanics do not harmonize with this view."

Your issue is that you are saying Luminiferous aether is what we are talking about.  It is not.  Even if it was, it was not disproven.

The issue is people don't like the word.
no, the theory of aether is wrong.
aether as the universal inertial reference frame is wrong.
aether as the medium for light is wrong
aether as the fifth element is wrong


"In physics  there is no concept considered exactly analogous to the aether"

"The general attitude to this amongst physicists[who?]  today is that although it is purely a matter of semantics, Einstein's comments stretch the word "aether" too far: it is argued that an "aether" with no mechanical properties doesn't correspond to the historical idea of aether, and so it is potentially misleading to apply this name to the spacetime field of general relativity"

"Hendrik Lorentz and George Francis FitzGerald offered within the framework of Lorentz ether theory a more elegant solution to how the motion of an absolute aether could be undetectable (length contraction), but if their equations were correct, Albert Einstein's 1905 special theory of relativity could generate the same mathematics without referring to an aether at all. This led most physicists to conclude that the classical notion of aether was not a useful concept."

It doesn't take a genius of reading comprehension to figure out the old idea of aether is wrong.
it is current in name only
Obviously the older ideas of ether are incorrect.  No one said it wasn't.  Einsteins is not.

It doesn't take anyone of any real worth to realize the climate in the scientific community. Personal talks with Dr. Wang of Dispersive Extinction theory clarify his use of the word "space medium" instead of ether - I feel this is relevant:
Quote
The "aether" is currently a politically incorrect term, although personaly I am quite open to the concept. Centuries ago, people would laugh at you if you declared that air was a substance. Know[sic] it is a common knowledge. It is naive to believe that the outer space is an absolute void. However, to avoid the argument with the reviewers, i did not use the term "eather"[sic?] in the paper. Instead I used a less offensive term "space medium" which is accepted by the astrophysics community.

Ironically, although the Big Bang theory is built upon the theory of relativity that disproves the concept of eather, the Big Bang theorists are now smuggling in an absolute coordinate system, which they called "preferred system" supposedly at rest with the cosmic background radiation (CBR).

I do believe the CBR is an evidence of the exsistence of eather whose temperature around the solar system is 2.7 K.
5/7/08 as transcribed in Notebook Group 4.

Space medium, or quantum foam, or preferred system, or whatever you want to call it, it exists. 

If you wish to have a semantics argument and cry that its called something else, feel free.  Just don't expect me to take you seriously.

Now lets examine your uncited quotes:
For all I know some hobo on 4th street told you "In physics  there is no concept considered exactly analogous to the aether".  However, its obvious you just took that from Wikipedia.  It should be noted there are modern versions of aether theory that are reasonably exceptable use the name aether and are simply not within your limited research capabilities (which clearly are, for the majority, are uncited wikipedia articles.)

"This led most physicists to conclude that the classical notion of aether was not a useful concept."
Its not wrong, its just not particularly more useful as a tool.  Reading comprehension isn't your strong point is it?

"The general attitude to this amongst physicists[who?]  today is that although it is purely a matter of semantics, Einstein's comments stretch the word "aether" too far: it is argued that an "aether" with no mechanical properties doesn't correspond to the historical idea of aether, and so it is potentially misleading to apply this name to the spacetime field of general relativity"
Yes, obviously there is hesitance and prejudice against the word.  However, whether they feel Einstein stretches the word too far or not is irrelevant.  Being the inventor of the theory he has the right to publish and name it as he wishes and I have the right to reference it as such.  Furthermore, as the original article points out, who exactly are these physicists?  Why is this statement not even cited?  Its bad enough you pull it from wikipedia uncited, but honestly you pull it uncited from an uncited entry on wiki.  Fantastic globularist research work.

To think of space to be devoid and barren is sophomoric and silly.  To think it has no physical properties is even more ridiculous.  If you want to quibble over the name people give these properties, fine.    I'll quibble over you not having read any of the work actually concerning ether (under whatever names it has) ever.  Good job trolling from your wikipedia armchair.
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General Disarray

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #175 on: June 22, 2010, 02:11:24 PM »
Are you trying to say that just because something might exist that could possibly be described as "aether", your theories about the properties of the aether are correct?
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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #176 on: June 22, 2010, 03:36:36 PM »
Are you trying to say that just because something might exist that could possibly be described as "aether", your theories about the properties of the aether are correct?

No, I'm saying ether exists in relativity.  Directly from the lectures, notes, letters, and papers of Einstein.  Just because the word ether has a bad rap doesn't mean it is not included in relativity as the physical properties of space.
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James

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #177 on: June 22, 2010, 05:44:10 PM »
Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that zetetics discard instruments they "don't like"?

As a matter of fact, I have on Bullhorn's advice eschewed both the sextant and the astrolabe, but fortunately I require neither in order to conduct my zetetic studies.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #178 on: June 22, 2010, 08:30:56 PM »
Are you trying to say that just because something might exist that could possibly be described as "aether", your theories about the properties of the aether are correct?

No, I'm saying ether exists in relativity.  Directly from the lectures, notes, letters, and papers of Einstein.  Just because the word ether has a bad rap doesn't mean it is not included in relativity as the physical properties of space.

no need to be so insulting gees. the point is the old notion of aether is non existant. there are new things that could be called aether, but none have been taken up in the scientific community. The spirit of the matter is that aether is no longer valid

Re: The only legitimate FET - A call to end debate
« Reply #179 on: June 23, 2010, 01:30:24 AM »
Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that zetetics discard instruments they "don't like"?

As a matter of fact, I have on Bullhorn's advice eschewed both the sextant and the astrolabe, but fortunately I require neither in order to conduct my zetetic studies.

I know, you can just close your eyes and begin to wonder to run your zetetic experiments.