Under the clouds?

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Under the clouds?
« on: May 13, 2010, 01:23:42 PM »
I see all flat earth believers ignored my post about GPS coordinates. This leads me to think that they had asolutely no way of finding a flat earth explanation for it.

To add more weight to the load, I decided to focus on a very interesting phenomenon. I've seen it myself personally. Wake up one morning ar 5:00AM or 6:00AM and watch the sun rise (It also works when the sun sets, of course). If it's cloudy in your area and clear in the east you will watch the clouds light up from below. Here's an image:
http://thegrantclan.com/Jim/Backgrounds/Sunrise3.JPG

It doesn't matter if it's photoshopped or not, you can observe this in reality. The only explanation for it is that the sun must be "below" the coulds somehow, no matter what model you choose. On a round earth, it means the sun is shining light nearly parallel to the earth.

Can anybody show how this phenomenon is possible on a flath earth? The clouds are about 1km over the ground (Sometimes less), this would mean that the sun would have to be lower than that, like 500 meters. A home-made rocket could hit the sun at that distance. There are more problems with the flat earth hypothesis regarding this phenomenon, but I think most of you can already guess what they are.

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General Disarray

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2010, 01:39:52 PM »
I never even thought about that, and that's a real cool pic BTW.
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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2010, 01:56:40 PM »
If anyone still believes in that upward-bending-light thing, now's their chance to shine.  I'll go ahead and give the gist: some FEers believe light curves upward, which is why the sun (only getting further away) seems to set and rise by going/coming over the horizon.  Having light from below only means (to the bendy light folks) that the sun is far enough away that its light goes beyond horizontal and begins curving towards the sky again.

...I didn't say it made sense.

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2010, 02:14:51 PM »
If anyone still believes in that upward-bending-light thing, now's their chance to shine.  I'll go ahead and give the gist: some FEers believe light curves upward, which is why the sun (only getting further away) seems to set and rise by going/coming over the horizon.  Having light from below only means (to the bendy light folks) that the sun is far enough away that its light goes beyond horizontal and begins curving towards the sky again.

...I didn't say it made sense.

That theory has been disproved. Next.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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flyingmonkey

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2010, 05:15:36 PM »
This should be a well ignored topic by the FErs.

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James

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2010, 05:56:54 PM »
Do you believe that the Earth absorbs all the light which hits it?
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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General Disarray

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2010, 06:16:24 PM »
Do you believe that the Earth absorbs all the light which hits it?

Most of it, yeah. The earth's surface would have to reflect almost all the sunlight that hits it in order to produce the pattern seen in the picture.

You might not know how color works, but if something is green, it absorbs all colors of light except green light. That green light is reflected to our eyes, which is why we see that thing as green.

There really isn't anything in nature which is that particular color of yellow/orange seen on the clouds, so we can rule out reflection as a cause. And there definitely isn't anything in nature which reflects that much light of those colors.
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Parsifal

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2010, 06:22:18 PM »
This issue has been brought up before, and bendy light provides an explanation.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Lorddave

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2010, 06:23:09 PM »
This issue has been brought up before, and bendy light provides an explanation.

But since Bendy Light contradicts some other models (like the Old Bedford Level experiment) then it can't logically exist.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

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Parsifal

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2010, 06:28:26 PM »
But since Bendy Light contradicts some other models (like the Old Bedford Level experiment) then it can't logically exist.

Or those other models are wrong.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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General Disarray

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2010, 07:22:08 PM »
But since Bendy Light contradicts some other models (like the Old Bedford Level experiment) then it can't logically exist.

Or those other models are wrong.

Or you are the only one who still believes in bendy light. So this picture either means bendy light is the "correct" model, or FET is disproved altogether.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2010, 07:39:19 PM »
Since Ben Franklin holds that "sky mirror" idea, I think it's about time somebody proposed a "ground mirror" to explain this.

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markjo

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2010, 08:19:58 PM »
But since Bendy Light contradicts some other models (like the Old Bedford Level experiment) then it can't logically exist.

Or those other models are wrong.

The mantra of FET is that the earth is flat because it looks flat.  How can you prove that the earth is indeed flat if bendy light makes it looks round?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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General Disarray

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2010, 08:23:14 PM »
But since Bendy Light contradicts some other models (like the Old Bedford Level experiment) then it can't logically exist.

Or those other models are wrong.

The mantra of FET is that the earth is flat because it looks flat.  How can you prove that the earth is indeed flat if bendy light makes it looks round?

I propose an amendment: Earth is flat because it looks flat, except when it doesn't.
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markjo

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2010, 08:26:55 PM »
But since Bendy Light contradicts some other models (like the Old Bedford Level experiment) then it can't logically exist.

Or those other models are wrong.

The mantra of FET is that the earth is flat because it looks flat.  How can you prove that the earth is indeed flat if bendy light makes it looks round?

I propose an amendment: Earth is flat because it looks flat, except when it doesn't.

Or: Earth is flat because it looks flat, except when bendy light makes it look round.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2010, 08:31:27 PM »
If anyone still believes in that upward-bending-light thing, now's their chance to shine.  I'll go ahead and give the gist: some FEers believe light curves upward, which is why the sun (only getting further away) seems to set and rise by going/coming over the horizon.  Having light from below only means (to the bendy light folks) that the sun is far enough away that its light goes beyond horizontal and begins curving towards the sky again.

...I didn't say it made sense.

That theory has been disproved. Next.

What was our best defense for that?
I forgot, too much win

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2010, 08:34:30 PM »
This issue has been brought up before, and bendy light provides an explanation.
Bendy light has been debunked over 9000 times.
Beam neutrinos disproves your sun itself.
that one vid of the sun from near earth orbit disproves the disk shaped sun.
the mathematics behind force and acceleration disprove it right off the bat.

Give me another thing

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Johannes

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2010, 08:50:24 PM »
This issue has been brought up before, and bendy light provides an explanation.
Bendy light has been debunked over 9000 times.
Beam neutrinos disproves your sun itself.
that one vid of the sun from near earth orbit disproves the disk shaped sun.
the mathematics behind force and acceleration disprove it right off the bat.

Give me another thing
Sources? Maths?

Light bends upwards; that is why the clouds are illuminated from the bottom.

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markjo

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2010, 08:54:12 AM »
Light bends upwards; that is why the clouds are illuminated from the bottom.

Without making any assumptions about the shape of the earth, what evidence do you have to support this claim?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2010, 10:21:52 AM »
This issue has been brought up before, and bendy light provides an explanation.
Bendy light has been debunked over 9000 times.
Beam neutrinos disproves your sun itself.
that one vid of the sun from near earth orbit disproves the disk shaped sun.
the mathematics behind force and acceleration disprove it right off the bat.

Give me another thing
Sources? Maths?

Light bends upwards; that is why the clouds are illuminated from the bottom.


Mathematicals for debunk of bendy light:

in order for the horizon effect to keep parallel in both systems, then Light must follow a circular path for very obvious reasons. the path of a circle is governed by x(t)=rcost y(t)=rsint. If light travels at c,
then c=sqrt(x'(t)2+y'(t)2), or in other words, light is going in the path of a cir circle at uniform speed.

that said, the acceleration vector is therefore centripetal. if this vector is centripetal, then so is force, because F=MA. note, that the magnitude and angle of this force varies upon altitude, latitude, zenith and azimuth angles of the ray, etc.

Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2010, 10:23:08 AM »
couldnt this just be our floodlight sunlight reflecting of the earth back to the clouds?

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2010, 10:24:38 AM »
couldnt this just be our floodlight sunlight reflecting of the earth back to the clouds?

off of what? and why that color?

also you need some mathematicals to show how that the reflection would work, given the whole bendy light thing

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2010, 11:03:25 AM »
This issue has been brought up before, and bendy light provides an explanation.

Yet unfortunately for bendy light, if it produces this effect it should also produce other effects such as shifting of star positions proportional to altitude, which does not happen.
Bendy light now disproved 9001 times.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2010, 12:48:57 PM »
I think the idea of bendy light was the only possible solution to this problem on a flat earth. If bendy light doesn't exist, we can prove, beyond all reasonable doubt, that the earth is not flat. The only other possible explanation is magic, unless someone can find a better idea.

Now the flat earth supporters have two honest options:
1- Find a new explanation that won't be disproved.
2- Give up the idea of a flat earth and act like a rational person

And a third, dishonest option:
3- Ignore this post and keep claiming that the earth is flat.

I strongly recommend taking one of the first two, for the sake of your own integrity.

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markjo

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2010, 12:52:39 PM »
I think the idea of bendy light was the only possible solution to this problem on a flat earth. If bendy light doesn't exist, we can prove, beyond all reasonable doubt, that the earth is not flat. The only other possible explanation is magic, unless someone can find a better idea.

But if light does bend, then how do you prove that the earth is flat?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Catchpa

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2010, 12:59:02 PM »
Parsifal is not a FE'er and not a single FE'er has stood forward to say they believe in bendy light. They must come up with another explanation for this.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=38194.0
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=38679.0

Don't let Parsifal troll you on this one.
The conspiracy do train attack-birds

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Johannes

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2010, 01:29:37 PM »
This issue has been brought up before, and bendy light provides an explanation.
Bendy light has been debunked over 9000 times.
Beam neutrinos disproves your sun itself.
that one vid of the sun from near earth orbit disproves the disk shaped sun.
the mathematics behind force and acceleration disprove it right off the bat.

Give me another thing
Sources? Maths?

Light bends upwards; that is why the clouds are illuminated from the bottom.


Mathematicals for debunk of bendy light:

in order for the horizon effect to keep parallel in both systems, then Light must follow a circular path for very obvious reasons. the path of a circle is governed by x(t)=rcost y(t)=rsint. If light travels at c,
then c=sqrt(x'(t)2+y'(t)2), or in other words, light is going in the path of a cir circle at uniform speed.

that said, the acceleration vector is therefore centripetal. if this vector is centripetal, then so is force, because F=MA. note, that the magnitude and angle of this force varies upon altitude, latitude, zenith and azimuth angles of the ray, etc.
That is nonsense.

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Catchpa

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2010, 02:08:20 PM »
Who are you anyway? You suddenly just come in and spurt a bunch of stupid statements with absolutely no basis. Stop it.
The conspiracy do train attack-birds

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The Question1

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2010, 02:15:46 PM »
Who are you anyway? You suddenly just come in and spurt a bunch of stupid statements with absolutely no basis. Stop it.
I think he is the same Johannes from the roundearthsociety.

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SupahLovah

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Re: Under the clouds?
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2010, 02:17:23 PM »
Who are you anyway? You suddenly just come in and spurt a bunch of stupid statements with absolutely no basis. Stop it.
I think he is the same Johannes from the roundearthsociety.
I LOL'd he means thevoiceofreason, I'd hope. Johannes is hopelessly addicted to TFES.
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