Icewall theory is consistent with round earth

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Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« on: March 24, 2010, 03:17:05 PM »
I just wanted to point out that a round (but no globular) earth COULD have an icewall. So the conclusion is you cannot use the existence of an icewall to prove flat earth theory. suppose the earth was connected (or an infinite tiling) along the equator, then it is possible that there could be an ice wall at the 'poles' even though they are not really poles we will use that term. Of course ice wall is consistent with the flat earth theory too, but the new result from this exposition is that it is also consistent with a 'tubular world' or infinitely tesselated interpretatation.

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2010, 08:26:11 AM »
In theory yes but it becomes problematic when factoring in the sun. FET depends on a way smaller sun than is fact to work (for the edges to ice up) but then also has an iced up centre on some maps too. A tubular shape would need yet another size of sun but could have no ice running along the centre, only at the edges - or it would require two suns to work, to enable an equatorial ice shelf. So there can only be an ice wall in other models. FETs acknowledge the existence of the iced up arctic (as a land mass), which is why the smaller than fact sun is needed to make the theory work.

Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2010, 02:49:22 PM »
The Icewall only really makes sense on a flat plain.

It would have to be a larger layer of ice,in the shape of a globe for it to be relative to a theoretical round earth.

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Skeleton

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2010, 03:52:53 PM »
Has anyone ever seen the magic ice wall? Even if they have its just a glacier not a big huge wall. Nobody thinks it really exists I think.
If the ultimate objective is to kill Skeleton, we should just do that next.

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2010, 05:07:24 PM »
Has anyone ever seen the magic ice wall? Even if they have its just a glacier not a big huge wall. Nobody thinks it really exists I think.

No it does not exist. Both the arctic and antarctic ice shelves will vary in size (they are melting now) throughout history depending on climate, but there is catagorically no wall. It's just not possible, given all of the shipping activity over time, for an ice wall to remain undiscovered. Whilst FET dismisses aviation and space photography out of hand, shipping is not so easy to dismiss.

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Death-T

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2010, 08:31:50 AM »
Has anyone ever seen the magic ice wall? Even if they have its just a glacier not a big huge wall. Nobody thinks it really exists I think.

No it does not exist. Both the arctic and antarctic ice shelves will vary in size (they are melting now) throughout history depending on climate, but there is catagorically no wall. It's just not possible, given all of the shipping activity over time, for an ice wall to remain undiscovered. Whilst FET dismisses aviation and space photography out of hand, shipping is not so easy to dismiss.

And yet they do it out of hand.... on a regular basis.
" Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. " - Albert Einstein

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Xerox

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2010, 08:52:03 AM »
I guess now would be a good time to bring up the fact that an ice wall wouldn't contain the oceans on a flat earth.  This is because ice is less dense than water and therefore would float (just like on a lake/pond) and would allow water to travel beneath it.

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Death-T

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2010, 09:17:27 AM »
I guess now would be a good time to bring up the fact that an ice wall wouldn't contain the oceans on a flat earth.  This is because ice is less dense than water and therefore would float (just like on a lake/pond) and would allow water to travel beneath it.

I think they adressed this by putting a landmass under it.
" Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. " - Albert Einstein

" We are imperfect.  We cannot expect perfect government. "  ~William Howard Taft

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2010, 09:22:50 AM »
I guess now would be a good time to bring up the fact that an ice wall wouldn't contain the oceans on a flat earth.  This is because ice is less dense than water and therefore would float (just like on a lake/pond) and would allow water to travel beneath it.

The ice could be frozen right down to the sea bed but it would thin towards the unfozen sea. It would also require an extreme temperature difference at the edge compared to the interior too (and would probably have to be a lot wider and higher than the current FE map shows). However given that the earth's crust is a series of tectonic plates that  shift on a softer mantle, and cause the earth to continuosly evolve geologically, the idea of a solid ice wall that is never breached makes no sense. If the edge of the earth itself wasn't a fault line then there would have to one somewhere in front of the ice wall. That would mean there would be a continental shelf. We know none of these things exist.

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Xerox

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2010, 10:39:53 AM »
I guess now would be a good time to bring up the fact that an ice wall wouldn't contain the oceans on a flat earth.  This is because ice is less dense than water and therefore would float (just like on a lake/pond) and would allow water to travel beneath it.

I think they adressed this by putting a landmass under it.

You mean Antarctica, right?  Thought so.

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Deceiver

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2010, 10:44:40 AM »
I guess now would be a good time to bring up the fact that an ice wall wouldn't contain the oceans on a flat earth.  This is because ice is less dense than water and therefore would float (just like on a lake/pond) and would allow water to travel beneath it.

The ice could be frozen right down to the sea bed but it would thin towards the unfozen sea. It would also require an extreme temperature difference at the edge compared to the interior too (and would probably have to be a lot wider and higher than the current FE map shows). However given that the earth's crust is a series of tectonic plates that  shift on a softer mantle, and cause the earth to continuosly evolve geologically, the idea of a solid ice wall that is never breached makes no sense. If the edge of the earth itself wasn't a fault line then there would have to one somewhere in front of the ice wall. That would mean there would be a continental shelf. We know none of these things exist.

The only reason we have the appearance of ice walls on Antarctica in the first place is because the glacier ice is calving off into the ocean. I'm pretty certain that the Flat Earth proponents realize this. Perhaps instead of a literal wall they meant something like an 'ice terminator', that is, a discretely defined region that transitions into nothing except desolate ice. I'll explore both options.

For there to be a massive vertical wall of ice some new phenomenon would definitely have to be occuring. It sounds like the FE theory on this is suggesting something like a Fault Scarp but with ice, obviously. This ends up being rather counter intuitive in the end though. For that to work, even if it was a very gradual buildup of ice resting on continental shelving, at some point the laws of isostacy are being violated. Remember that icebergs only show about 10pct of their mass above the surface of water? Same exact idea, but with rocks being buoyantly supported by denser, partially molten rock below -- that is, the mantle.

What we have then is something like this: Denser oceanic crust sits adjacent to less dense continental crust, followed by a transition of continental crust with some ridiculous amount of ice on top of it. Given something like that, the outer rim of the earth should actually be a pit bounded by an ice cliff -- as a result of sinking, faulting crust like in a caldera. This is because there is no crust supporting ice-laden crust on the edge of the disk. We are also assuming that the ice shelf can magically avoid shelf collapse. Steep cliff sides, especially in ice, are lithologically very weak. What would end up happening most likely is that a basin structure minus the southern half would exist. Sort of like the outer half a donut mold. The landmass would subside like nobody's business with all that ice piling on top of it and nothing except the weak asthenosphere supporting it.

HOWEVER, we can have a temporary ice wall if the crust underneath the ice manages to delaminate. All that means is that a very dense slab (likely ecoglite) founders off of the less dense continental crust causing that segment to uplift, ice goes up with it, and you get a series of fault scarp type features for a few million years. Best thing I can think of is sort of like sitting in a blowup tube with a 20lb rock tied to the bottom. Cut the rope, rock sinks and the tube rises some.

If we switch gears and assume we have an infinite earth disk, the crust has adjacent crust to support it almost equally in every direction -- southern side less supportive than north side -- so you would effectively have a plain of ice, with the approximate mean elevation of antarctica. Ice gets thicker... crust sits lower and pulls on adjacent crust; you get about the same elevation throughout. Problem though is that for the ice to stay level, the crust has to get thicker and thicker to offset the ice. Tall mountains have very deep roots, same idea. To get a gradual increase in elevation, the crust has to get thicker still. Depending on your science background, this might seem a bit odd. Afterall, ice is less dense than crust. However, you still have gravity/UA trying to pull everything down so the that the earth is level.

But in the end everything fails. Before any of the above could actually happen, other laws get violated too. As the ice wall becomes thicker it's going to find its way an area of least potential energy -- to the ocean where it would subsequently calve off, or a continental basin, which still only holds so much ice before overlying ice would start to ride over it, into the ocean. Still, it doesn't matter how big this ice wall is, the warmer crust underneath it will always a create thin layer of water between it and the ice...lubrication... thus the icewall would be forever moving, forever calving. But at the same time, the sheer coldness of a completely sunless zone would starve off precipation as you go further south... no precipitation --> no ice sheet --> no ice wall. It would be like building sand dunes when the desert wind has already blown the sand to the other side of the desert. Without more sand, you can't build dunes on that side! If you have a source of sand in the middle of the desert however, then you would still have dunes, just no Sand Wall! Same thing with the disrupted hydro cycle and the ice sheets. No accumulation, no more ice.

Hope that makes some lick of sense. Obviously it's a complete nightmare, even if some of my reasoning isn't completely thought-out.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 12:14:31 PM by Deceiver »

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2010, 08:43:00 PM »
Ha ha, kind of what I was alluding to. The point is that with all of those forces in place what you would not have at the edge of the world is anything anywhere near stable enough to avoid basically, bits caving in and breaking off.

But here's the other issue. At what point does the mantle end? It can't after all run to the absolute edge of the earth. So what is there? What is underneath too? Esp with UA, geologically you would have to assume some rock formation so dense that nothing can break it. Well we know that that kind of rock only forms in high temperatures and under great pressure (like eclogites). I can't see how such rock can form geologically in a UA model. What is the FET on the geomorphic evolution of the earth?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2010, 08:51:03 PM »
At what point does the mantle end? It can't after all run to the absolute edge of the earth.

Why?  ???
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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EarthISroundISproven

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2010, 11:15:00 PM »
At what point does the mantle end? It can't after all run to the absolute edge of the earth.

Why?  ???

It would run out at the edges as some form of volcanic activity, and given the upward momentum from the UA it would be pretty violent activity (bit like a soft cheese being squeezed between two crackers!). Lava would spew out into space.

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Lord Xenu

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2010, 10:20:32 AM »
At what point does the mantle end? It can't after all run to the absolute edge of the earth.

Why?  ???

It would run out at the edges as some form of volcanic activity, and given the upward momentum from the UA it would be pretty violent activity (bit like a soft cheese being squeezed between two crackers!). Lava would spew out into space.

Or the earth could be like a wagon wheel, in which case the lava would only spew out upwards if it was crushed. Or like a jammy dodger, in which case there would be a single huge central lava pit.

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Xerox

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2010, 04:47:37 PM »
^^ Do you have any evidence of this?

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James

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2010, 06:37:11 AM »
If the Earth was round surely the ice wall would be an ice tower  ???
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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flyingmonkey

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2010, 01:34:52 PM »
If the Earth was round surely the ice wall would be an ice tower  ???


150ft tall and a few hundred km across doesn't seem like a tower to me.

Sound's like a continent, oh hang on, Antarctica maybe?

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Xerox

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2010, 07:29:43 PM »
If the Earth was round surely the ice wall would be an ice tower  ???


150ft tall and a few hundred km across doesn't seem like a tower to me.

Sound's like a continent, oh hang on, Antarctica maybe?

Yes, indeed.

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Death-T

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2010, 07:39:59 AM »
If the Earth was round surely the ice wall would be an ice tower  ???


150ft tall and a few hundred km across doesn't seem like a tower to me.

Sound's like a continent, oh hang on, Antarctica maybe?

Silly monkey - FE'ers can make any claim without the use of such things as "proof" or "logic." That is why, whatever we bring forth to them, they will alwats be right in their minds.
" Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. " - Albert Einstein

" We are imperfect.  We cannot expect perfect government. "  ~William Howard Taft

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Deceiver

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Re: Icewall theory is consistent with round earth
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2010, 10:43:29 PM »
Mass wasting broke the Ice wall! urgh the oceans are spilling out!!!!