Why I became a Flat Earther

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Why I became a Flat Earther
« on: May 02, 2010, 09:00:20 PM »
I used to believe everything that society told me to believe. To be honest, I was pretty much a closed-minded bigot, and I scoffed at everyone who didn't agree with me about things I accepted to be true without evidence. I had only the vaguest knowledge of the Flat Earth Society, and it seemed like just about the silliest thing in the world to me at the time.

Then eventually I found this website. I didn't know what to make of it. I joined the forum and made a post in which I asked why the members believed what they did. I ultimately didn't get much from that, but I got better results by reading the forums, the FAQs, and even some of the FE literature. I realized I'd taken a lot of things for granted; it really opened my eyes.

I realized there was no proof the world was round. I became skeptical. The NASA photos could easily have been faked. The whole concept of gravity makes little scientific sense, but we just accept it because we have never questioned it. I always had some doubts about the nature of gravity, and also special relativity which seemed too far-fetched to believe. If supposed professional scientists could overlook questions like that, who says they couldn't make other mistakes? How have they proved the world is round? In no way have they done so.

The only "proof" we have comes from organizations such as NASA that stand to make a profit off keeping the secret. They get ENORMOUS amounts of money--just to fly things into space, they say. But why bother, when they can pocket the money and save lots of expenses by making up all the stories of what they find out there.

And then there is the fact that bodies of water have been shown to have no curving--at all. I wondered about this; why did RE'ers (my fellow RE'ers back then) never address this? FET addresses the perceived flaws in its ideas; RET does not. It is simply ignored by the scientific community when it doesn't seem to fit. For the longest time I ignored this and assumed the scientists knew what they were doing. I took a lot on faith; almost religiously. I gave up on religion long ago, and eventually I realized I needed to give up my faith in mainstream science. It has only its own interest in mind; see the Global Warming nonsense.

For every perceived flaw, FET has an answer. RE'ers are just so biased by their prejudices that they feel the need to call FE'ers names instead of addressing the issues. It's a travesty--they feel threatened when they cannot back up their beliefs. This, too, I eventually realized. We need to be more open-minded. We need to question our beliefs. I have questioned RET and I have questioned FET. FET holds up. RET does not.

I'm happy to join this community of open-minded individuals.  :D

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flyingmonkey

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2010, 09:32:30 PM »
All we need for you to do is hand in all your belongings and put on this straight jacket, and we will show you to one of our lovely padded rooms.

Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2010, 09:48:45 PM »
The irony in your post is overwhelming. Every time someone has an idea the mainstream doesn't agree with, they are labeled "crazy." Surely you didn't intend to make yourself look so silly?

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flyingmonkey

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2010, 10:05:46 PM »
I'm not the silly one, as you so helped prove in that other thread you posted in.

Also, I meant it as "Welcome" in a funny tone.
Expect to be at the end of things like that from here on in.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 10:10:38 PM by flyingmonkey »

Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2010, 10:20:40 PM »
I proved you weren't silly by correcting you when you misunderstood my post? If you'll return to that thread you'll see that I've corrected you again because you still didn't understand.

I retain hope that there are genuinely welcoming members here who don't waste their time trolling.

Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2010, 10:26:33 PM »
I used to believe everything that society told me to believe. To be honest, I was pretty much a closed-minded bigot, and I scoffed at everyone who didn't agree with me about things I accepted to be true without evidence. I had only the vaguest knowledge of the Flat Earth Society, and it seemed like just about the silliest thing in the world to me at the time.

Then eventually I found this website. I didn't know what to make of it. I joined the forum and made a post in which I asked why the members believed what they did. I ultimately didn't get much from that, but I got better results by reading the forums, the FAQs, and even some of the FE literature. I realized I'd taken a lot of things for granted; it really opened my eyes.

I realized there was no proof the world was round spherical. I became skeptical. The NASA photos could easily have been faked. The whole concept of gravity makes little scientific sense, but we just accept it because we have never questioned it. I always had some doubts about the nature of gravity, and also special relativity which seemed too far-fetched to believe. If supposed professional scientists could overlook questions like that, who says they couldn't make other mistakes? How have they proved the world is round? In no way have they done so.

The only "proof" we have comes from organizations such as NASA that stand to make a profit off keeping the secret. They get ENORMOUS amounts of money--just to fly things into space, they say. But why bother, when they can pocket the money and save lots of expenses by making up all the stories of what they find out there.

And then there is the fact that bodies of water have been shown to have no curving--at all. I wondered about this; why did RE'ers (my fellow RE'ers back then) never address this? FET addresses the perceived flaws in its ideas; RET does not. It is simply ignored by the scientific community when it doesn't seem to fit. For the longest time I ignored this and assumed the scientists knew what they were doing. I took a lot on faith; almost religiously. I gave up on religion long ago, and eventually I realized I needed to give up my faith in mainstream science. It has only its own interest in mind; see the Global Warming nonsense.

For every perceived flaw, FET has an answer. RE'ers are just so biased by their prejudices that they feel the need to call FE'ers names instead of addressing the issues. It's a travesty--they feel threatened when they cannot back up their beliefs. This, too, I eventually realized. We need to be more open-minded. We need to question our beliefs. I have questioned RET and I have questioned FET. FET holds up. RET does not.

I'm happy to join this community of open-minded individuals.  :D

Go to an ocean and watch a ship go off into the distance.  You'll notice that the bottom disappears before the top.  This is due to the curvature of the Earth.  There's your proof.

Dank you, come again.

Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2010, 10:37:29 PM »

Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 11:24:24 PM »
I used to believe everything that society told me to believe. To be honest, I was pretty much a closed-minded bigot, and I scoffed at everyone who didn't agree with me about things I accepted to be true without evidence. I had only the vaguest knowledge of the Flat Earth Society, and it seemed like just about the silliest thing in the world to me at the time.

Then eventually I found this website. I didn't know what to make of it. I joined the forum and made a post in which I asked why the members believed what they did. I ultimately didn't get much from that, but I got better results by reading the forums, the FAQs, and even some of the FE literature. I realized I'd taken a lot of things for granted; it really opened my eyes.

I realized there was no proof the world was round. I became skeptical. The NASA photos could easily have been faked. The whole concept of gravity makes little scientific sense, but we just accept it because we have never questioned it. I always had some doubts about the nature of gravity, and also special relativity which seemed too far-fetched to believe. If supposed professional scientists could overlook questions like that, who says they couldn't make other mistakes? How have they proved the world is round? In no way have they done so.

The only "proof" we have comes from organizations such as NASA that stand to make a profit off keeping the secret. They get ENORMOUS amounts of money--just to fly things into space, they say. But why bother, when they can pocket the money and save lots of expenses by making up all the stories of what they find out there.

And then there is the fact that bodies of water have been shown to have no curving--at all. I wondered about this; why did RE'ers (my fellow RE'ers back then) never address this? FET addresses the perceived flaws in its ideas; RET does not. It is simply ignored by the scientific community when it doesn't seem to fit. For the longest time I ignored this and assumed the scientists knew what they were doing. I took a lot on faith; almost religiously. I gave up on religion long ago, and eventually I realized I needed to give up my faith in mainstream science. It has only its own interest in mind; see the Global Warming nonsense.

For every perceived flaw, FET has an answer. RE'ers are just so biased by their prejudices that they feel the need to call FE'ers names instead of addressing the issues. It's a travesty--they feel threatened when they cannot back up their beliefs. This, too, I eventually realized. We need to be more open-minded. We need to question our beliefs. I have questioned RET and I have questioned FET. FET holds up. RET does not.

I'm happy to join this community of open-minded individuals.  :D

Well and *sigh*, here we go again: the story about how "RE'ers are sheep blindly following what the incompetent scientists and evil NASA are making us believe". I've been told the same one by Parsifal for instance, and other (real or advocate-of-the-devil- ) FE'ers and frankly I find it to be nothing more than a weak argument.

What makes you so sure that I (or RE'ers in general) never questioned the knowledge that was presented to me when I was studying at the university, or when I was (and am) reading books on geography and cosmology (= two of my most favourite topics next to history), or when I was taking the obligatory physics- and geography- and chemistry- and mathematics-classes back in highschool, or...?

What makes you so sure that I (or RE'ers in general) never ask myself questions about what I see whenever I look up to the sky at night and marvel at the beauty and mistery of our universe?

For instance: I am fully aware of the ancient theories about what Earth and the universe look like, one of which is the flat plane with "a dome shaped" universe above it (it didn't move upwards at 9.8m/s2 according to them, as of course the concept of gravitation wasn't known yet back then). And I must grant it to the FE'ers: to the naked eye it certainly looks exactly like that.

So the idea has crossed my mind indeed and I can understand why ancient civilizations (with the exception of some of their "scolars") believed this worldview to be true, as they only had their very own eyes to study what they saw, without any technology at their disposal.

And do you know what I do when I'm asking myself questions about the veracity of that theorie or when I want to know more about Earth and its place in the cosmos (and that's where the bolded part of your post comes into play)? I go out to an observatorium (of which I have visited several already here in Belgium, FAR away from evil NASA) to have a look for myself, and believe me:
What "they" (= the scientists) tell you in books about our solar system for instance, can easily be observed to be true through telescopes and by taking a look at all the measurements done by radio-telescopes (or whatever it is they use to study all the radiation coming from the universe; I'm no astrophysicist after all, only a history major / historian).
That is of course, if you're willing to trust those people, which I am. I hold no master grade in (astro-)physics for instance, so I have to trust those that do and listen to them when they're explaining their subject / field of research to me.

On top of that, over the past years I have watched numerous documentaries about "Space", or "Earth", or "The Sun", or "Black Holes", or "Our Galaxie", or "Stars", or... and to make things complete I have also been buying and reading several scientific books on geography and cosmology ever since I was a young teenager.

Now, at the observatorium and in those documentaries and books there is so much evidence to be found for "the widely accepted view on the nature of our planet and the universe", that it becomse virtually impossible to hold on to the image of "a flat plane with a dome shaped universe".
Unless of course if you insist to be a stubborn sceptical, shouting that science is wrong and has no proof whatsoever to back up all its claims; or if you want be a philosophical purist claiming that nothing can ever be known for certain and that everything always has to be questioned, no matter how much evidence there is in favour of a theory.

Bottom line: back in highschool and at university I have been TAUGHT to ask myself questions about the world that I live in and I have been TAUGHT to go and search for answers (on my own AND in the educational system). I was even allowed to question the theories of my history professors at university, as long as I had evidence to back up my claim.

And that's the main problem with "Flat Earth Theory": it has no credible evidence to back up its claims (and that certainly goes for all the FE-literature in Tom Bishop's signature, the FAQ and the FE-Wiki), "Round Earth Theory" has => following logical reasoning "RE" is most likely to be true, "FE" is not and nothing on this forum so far has been able to convince me of the contrary.

So if you want to be sceptical about something, be sceptical about FE. It has the least amount of evidence to back up its claims, only a collection of unproven hypothesis.

Regards,

P.S.: English isn't my native language. Apologies for any grammar or spelling mistakes I might have made.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 11:28:19 PM by Ergonomicsky »

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2010, 11:38:38 PM »
I used to believe everything that society told me to believe. To be honest, I was pretty much a closed-minded bigot, and I scoffed at everyone who didn't agree with me about things I accepted to be true without evidence. I had only the vaguest knowledge of the Flat Earth Society, and it seemed like just about the silliest thing in the world to me at the time.

Then eventually I found this website. I didn't know what to make of it. I joined the forum and made a post in which I asked why the members believed what they did. I ultimately didn't get much from that, but I got better results by reading the forums, the FAQs, and even some of the FE literature. I realized I'd taken a lot of things for granted; it really opened my eyes.

I realized there was no proof the world was round. I became skeptical. The NASA photos could easily have been faked. The whole concept of gravity makes little scientific sense, but we just accept it because we have never questioned it. I always had some doubts about the nature of gravity, and also special relativity which seemed too far-fetched to believe. If supposed professional scientists could overlook questions like that, who says they couldn't make other mistakes? How have they proved the world is round? In no way have they done so.

The only "proof" we have comes from organizations such as NASA that stand to make a profit off keeping the secret. They get ENORMOUS amounts of money--just to fly things into space, they say. But why bother, when they can pocket the money and save lots of expenses by making up all the stories of what they find out there.

And then there is the fact that bodies of water have been shown to have no curving--at all. I wondered about this; why did RE'ers (my fellow RE'ers back then) never address this? FET addresses the perceived flaws in its ideas; RET does not. It is simply ignored by the scientific community when it doesn't seem to fit. For the longest time I ignored this and assumed the scientists knew what they were doing. I took a lot on faith; almost religiously. I gave up on religion long ago, and eventually I realized I needed to give up my faith in mainstream science. It has only its own interest in mind; see the Global Warming nonsense.

For every perceived flaw, FET has an answer. RE'ers are just so biased by their prejudices that they feel the need to call FE'ers names instead of addressing the issues. It's a travesty--they feel threatened when they cannot back up their beliefs. This, too, I eventually realized. We need to be more open-minded. We need to question our beliefs. I have questioned RET and I have questioned FET. FET holds up. RET does not.

I'm happy to join this community of open-minded individuals.  :D

1. "I realized there was no proof the world was round..."
see Eratosthenes and Copernicus and NASA

2.  "The NASA photos could easily have been faked...The only "proof" we have comes from organizations such as NASA that stand to make a profit off keeping the secret. They get ENORMOUS amounts of money--just to fly things into space, they say. But why bother, when they can pocket the money and save lots of expenses by making up all the stories of what they find out there."
see #1 but cross  out the NASA part

3. "The whole concept of gravity makes little scientific sense, but we just accept it because we have never questioned it. I always had some doubts about the nature of gravity, and also special relativity which seemed too far-fetched to believe."
So gravity, which is theorized to be a force caused by the swapping of graviton particles doesn't make sense to you, but electromagnetic force, which is theorized to be a force caused by the swapping of photons does?
This is a simple case of an argument from ignorance. If you go take a college course, I'm sure that you'll understand it.

4. "If supposed professional scientists could overlook questions like that, who says they couldn't make other mistakes? How have they proved the world is round? In no way have they done so."
they haven't and if you want to see they're answers, see #3. and just because they mess up once, doesn't mean they're always wrong. that fallacy is called ad hominem.

5. "And then there is the fact that bodies of water have been shown to have no curving--at all. I wondered about this; why did RE'ers (my fellow RE'ers back then) never address this?"

probably because your first statement is wrong, the horizon effect and airplane travel when put into the context of excepted science, has indeed shown water to curve, therefore there was no problem to address.

6. "For every perceived flaw, FET has an answer. RE'ers are just so biased by their prejudices that they feel the need to call FE'ers names instead of addressing the issues. It's a travesty--they feel threatened when they cannot back up their beliefs. This, too, I eventually realized. We need to be more open-minded. We need to question our beliefs. I have questioned RET and I have questioned FET. FET holds up. RET does not."

there are now flaws, so FET does not have an answer that disproves the existence of the globe. Most RE'ers don't even know about this site, so they don't have any bias. and for those who do, yes it is a bias, and for good reason, because the world around us has proven time and time again that the earth is round. Wouldn't you be biased against a person who thought the earth was triangular prism? When we do listen to you, we have over 9000 points of evidence certifying the globe. And for your last statement, FET has never and will never hold up scientifically or otherwise. Round Earth has been confirmed via newly found phenomena all the time.

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sillyrob

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 03:43:30 AM »
Gravity makes "no sense", but the idea that the Earth is flat and the center of the universe flying through space because of magic that's given a fancy name is "unique and opens up your mind"? I wanna hear this explanation.

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Sliver

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 06:46:03 AM »
And then there is the fact that bodies of water have been shown to have no curving--at all.
Have you ever seen a drop of water?  Notice how it's a little ball?  Now, imagine that on a really large scale.
Thank you, come again.

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 06:59:40 AM »
The least you could do is NOT use outdated arguments.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Ships+appear+to+sink+as+they+recede+past+the+horizon

The argument from the hugely outdated and wrong source quoted in the wicky is disproved by the simple fact of observing perspective effects on things elsewhere than the horizon, for example aeroplanes which weren't invented when that was written. The claim that a "sufficiently powerful telescope" restores the missing parts is just plain wrong. If you believe something "because it is written" you're no better than a religionist. Rowbottom's theory requires photons to vanish out of existence in accordance with an undetected law of physics. Do you really believe that happens?
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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Lorddave

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2010, 11:59:20 AM »
You're wrong Bandit.

FEers consider the Round Earth model to be a working model without many holes.  I did a thread about the holes in RET and here it is:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=38561.0

Not very many holes and none really relate to the shape of the Earth.

Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2010, 12:53:43 PM »
Not very many holes and none really relate to the shape of the Earth.

Pshh, just because it functions undeniably well and makes flawless predictions doesn't mean it's right.
(This is me being an FEer)

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The Question1

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2010, 03:09:22 PM »
I am not going to bother quoting the post because it seems incredibly ironic.
Read the thread in my sig.

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Xerox

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2010, 08:11:51 AM »
I have noticed a lot on here how many FE followers point out that RE people don't question the "authority" of NASA or related organizations and that we just take what science says for truth.  Do you all honestly believe that everyone who believes in a round Earth is just going along with what they're told?

It's not just NASA that is telling people the world is round.  Even if they were faking space travel to pad their wallets, that doesn't automatically disprove the shape of the Earth.  Many other areas of science only work because the Earth is round.  Many branches of geology (my specialty) rely on the idea that the Earth is round and the observations made in those fields back up that idea. Tectonics is a big one that lots of people don't seem to understand that actually refutes FE.  But, back on point, you all act like NASA and probably some governments are the ones doing it all when really many independent companies, schools and other organizations can do RE without the conspiracy.

I don't blindly follow the RE idea.  I study it.  Geology is my job (as well as librarianship, but that's on the side).  I've done enough work in stratigraphy, tectonics, geomorphology to understand that RE isn't just an idea, it's fact.

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sillyrob

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2010, 08:10:57 PM »
Gravity makes "no sense", but the idea that the Earth is flat and the center of the universe flying through space because of magic that's given a fancy name is "unique and opens up your mind"? I wanna hear this explanation.
I'm still curious.

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markjo

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2010, 08:13:09 PM »
Gravity makes "no sense", but the idea that the Earth is flat and the center of the universe flying through space because of magic that's given a fancy name is "unique and opens up your mind"? I wanna hear this explanation.
I'm still curious.
Patience comes to those willing to wait for it.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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flyingmonkey

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2010, 08:39:11 PM »
I think maybe he left

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2010, 08:17:43 AM »
Welcome brother! I commend you for you open mind and willingness to question the world around you.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2010, 02:50:54 AM »
What is your educational background? How far did you go in school? Have you been to a college or university? If so what did you study?

Gravity makes no sense? That is hilarious. Care to explain what specificly about gravity makes no sense to you?

Just because your mind lacks the scientific education and knowledge to enable you to understand consepts such as gravity and special relatively does NOT make it non-sensical. It only illustrates your ignorance even more.

Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2010, 04:59:18 AM »
I agree  :D

Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2010, 06:29:24 AM »
The irony in your post is overwhelming. Every time someone has an idea the mainstream doesn't agree with, they are labeled "crazy." Surely you didn't intend to make yourself look so silly?

You are so right.  Instead of insulting and physically accosting that guy down the street from me who likes to touch and sleep with children, I will simply shake his hand for standing up to "the man" and voicing his own opinions for something mainstream society doesn't agree with. Ill bring my little sister too.
Obviously there is some sort of attracting phenomenon which affects the stars and planets.

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James

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2010, 08:17:17 AM »
And then there is the fact that bodies of water have been shown to have no curving--at all.
Have you ever seen a drop of water?  Notice how it's a little ball?  Now, imagine that on a really large scale.
Thank you, come again.

Can I confirm, please, that you believe droplets of water are held together by gravity?
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Aihwa

Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2010, 01:32:52 PM »
Your now edgy and different.  Thus "cool".  Grats bro.

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Rahimz

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2010, 03:47:05 PM »
And then there is the fact that bodies of water have been shown to have no curving--at all.
Have you ever seen a drop of water?  Notice how it's a little ball?  Now, imagine that on a really large scale.
Thank you, come again.

Can I confirm, please, that you believe droplets of water are held together by gravity?

No, you cannot. He was obviously making a connection metaphorically.
The Flat Earth Society is awesome

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James

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2010, 03:49:21 PM »
And then there is the fact that bodies of water have been shown to have no curving--at all.
Have you ever seen a drop of water?  Notice how it's a little ball?  Now, imagine that on a really large scale.
Thank you, come again.

Can I confirm, please, that you believe droplets of water are held together by gravity?

No, you cannot. He was obviously making a connection metaphorically.

I am afraid that metaphors carry little stock with men of hard science such as myself. Perhaps he ought to see if he can get to the facts of the matter rather than dallying on word-play and sophistry.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2010, 03:59:24 PM »

I am afraid that metaphors carry little stock with men of hard science such as myself.


Oh, that's comedy gold.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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markjo

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2010, 04:14:32 PM »
I am afraid that metaphors carry little stock with men of hard science such as myself. Perhaps he ought to see if he can get to the facts of the matter rather than dallying on word-play and sophistry.

I'd say quite the contrary.  If you think about it, various scientific models such as GR, the Standard Model, QM, etc., are nothing more than metaphors describing how the universe works.  As our understanding of the workings of the universe becomes better, do do the metaphors.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Gigamonsta

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Re: Why I became a Flat Earther
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2010, 06:55:58 PM »
The irony in your post is overwhelming. Every time someone has an idea the mainstream doesn't agree with, they are labeled "crazy." Surely you didn't intend to make yourself look so silly?

You are so right.  Instead of insulting and physically accosting that guy down the street from me who likes to touch and sleep with children, I will simply shake his hand for standing up to "the man" and voicing his own opinions for something mainstream society doesn't agree with. Ill bring my little sister too.

you ridiculously attempt to put FE'ers and pedophiles in the same camp. Ridiculous and more ad hominen assaults.