What's the deal with...

How come when I was a mod these excuses wouldn't fly, but now they're being flung around left and right?

Fuck it, why do I bother...

cause you were a lousy mod who placed his ego in front of enforcing the rules.

I was banned without warning for 'using a proxy'. I'd done nothing of the sort, and I straightened it out via IRC. I wasn't told how long my ban was; the information I was given was 'proxy.'.

The problem I have.

Quote from: Eddy Baby on April 29, 2010, 12:27:34 PM

I was banned without warning for 'using a proxy'. I'd done nothing of the sort, and I straightened it out via IRC. I wasn't told how long my ban was; the information I was given was 'proxy.'.

The problem I have.

What happened to you should not have happened, and was a bit of a fluke. Someone obviously thought they were banning a proxy, and banned the wrong IP or something.


I'll try and think of some kind of 'middle way', but ultimately I'm constrained by the software and the number of idiots we get at this forum. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

I guarantee you that most sites don't have the kind of review process we do.

You're not in a position to make such a guarantee.

We have a strict and clear set of guidelines for the enforcement of the rules, and moderators cannot issue bans which do not match the appropriate punishment as given in the guidelines.

Lets see those guidelines.

If the members aren't saying anything, and the mods aren't saying anything, then your ban is almost certainly justified, in which case you have no reason or cause to complain.

Sounds like guilt by default. That's a winning system! :thumbsup:

I have enough experience of internet forums to make a fair assessment, and if you have a problem with the specific phrasing used, you can take it elsewhere. This board is for genuine issues.


As for your 'guilty by default' comment, there is an impartial review process in place, and members are welcome to raise any genuine concerns in this board. Aside from being given the right to decide if you're guilty, I'm not sure how much fairer and remain practical.

I have enough experience of internet forums to make a fair assessment

No you don't. Unless you're a mod on most sites. Bombastic statements don't impress.

As for your 'guilty by default' comment, there is an impartial review process in place, and members are welcome to raise any genuine concerns in this board.

This has nothing to do with your statement "If the members aren't saying anything, and the mods aren't saying anything, then your ban is almost certainly justified".

Members cannot raise genuine concerns once banned. There is a good chance that regular members will not know that a member has been banned, so won't say anything. And mods rarely say anything due to the high levels of incompetence in the system already.

Status quo is established.

There is no review process. Impartial or otherwise.

For example, I raised a thread about my last ban. It was filled with spam by other members and then closed. By you. You ended with a threat; "further offences in the near future will result in a significantly larger ban"

Perhaps you should add to the rules that raising queries about bans is a bannable offence.

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on April 30, 2010, 06:43:25 AM

I have enough experience of internet forums to make a fair assessment

No you don't. Unless you're a mod on most sites. Bombastic statements don't impress.

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on April 30, 2010, 06:43:25 AM

As for your 'guilty by default' comment, there is an impartial review process in place, and members are welcome to raise any genuine concerns in this board.

This has nothing to do with your statement "If the members aren't saying anything, and the mods aren't saying anything, then your ban is almost certainly justified".

Members cannot raise genuine concerns once banned. There is a good chance that regular members will not know that a member has been banned, so won't say anything. And mods rarely say anything due to the high levels of incompetence in the system already.

Status quo is established.

There is no review process. Impartial or otherwise.

For example, I raised a thread about my last ban. It was filled with spam by other members and then closed. By you. You ended with a threat; "further offences in the near future will result in a significantly larger ban"

Perhaps you should add to the rules that raising queries about bans is a bannable offence.

They can email us or contact us via .net as much of the moderation team here is also moderators or members there.  Other options include contacting Daniel, contacting us via aim, facebook, and contacting us through other members.

They can email us or contact us via .net as much of the moderation team here is also moderators or members there.

The .net site has nothing to do with this one.

Plus it's a graveyard filled with spam.

Can't issues be resolved within the forum?

They can email us or contact us via .net as much of the moderation team here is also moderators or members there.  Other options include contacting Daniel, contacting us via aim, facebook, and contacting us through other members.

Well, no. Not really. Being banned makes it impossible to contact anyone. You leave no contact deatils.

You should be allowed to protest your ban AND see the forum once banned. Even if it's not possible, do you agree it should be? It's possible to update the forum software, you know.

Quote from: John Davis on April 30, 2010, 07:13:52 AM

They can email us or contact us via .net as much of the moderation team here is also moderators or members there.  Other options include contacting Daniel, contacting us via aim, facebook, and contacting us through other members.

Well, no. Not really. Being banned makes it impossible to contact anyone. You leave no contact deatils.

You should be allowed to protest your ban AND see the forum once banned. Even if it's not possible, do you agree it should be? It's possible to update the forum software, you know.

I agree it would be nice to have suggestions and concerns available to the banned in a perfect world but its not feasible software wise currently and it likely would be abused.

I think maybe a simple solution would be to include an admin's email within the ban message.

For example,

Sorry Ichi,
you have been banned for posting naked pictures of yourself. Your ban is for 1 day. Contact [admin name]@FES.org if further explanation is desired.

In fairness I can now the the problem. 85% of bans would result in either an email flame-war, or a farewell


FUCK YOU

*PORN*



*PORN*


*PORN*

post

I agree it would be nice to have suggestions and concerns available to the banned in a perfect world but its not feasible software wise currently and it likely would be abused.

Nope. No more than the contact details you already proposed would be abused.

If it's abused, ban the offender for good. If not, don't let the abuser harm the innocent.

I think maybe a simple solution would be to include an admin's email within the ban message.

For example,

Sorry Ichi,
you have been banned for posting naked pictures of yourself. Your ban is for 1 day. Contact [admin name]@FES.org if further explanation is desired.

I like this idea.  I'll suggest it in the admin forums.

Quote from: John Davis on April 30, 2010, 08:01:05 AM

I agree it would be nice to have suggestions and concerns available to the banned in a perfect world but its not feasible software wise currently and it likely would be abused.

Nope. No more than the contact details you already proposed would be abused.

Being such an expert in law you should know how to contact your state's AG and begin the process of a class action lawsuit to "make you whole" again for any unjust ban.  You should make yourself the point man for all other members in your state so that they can be included in the suit.  Don't forget about the emotional distress of others impacted by your ban.

Don't forget about the emotional distress of others impacted by your ban.

I don't want to complain about my ban, I want to complain that I was unable to see Crustinator for a week.

Quote from: Its a Sphere on April 30, 2010, 11:28:13 AM

Don't forget about the emotional distress of others impacted by your ban.

I don't want to complain about my ban, I want to complain that I was unable to see Crustinator for a week.

samefag

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on April 30, 2010, 06:43:25 AM

I have enough experience of internet forums to make a fair assessment

No you don't. Unless you're a mod on most sites. Bombastic statements don't impress.

Stop ignoring the bits of my posts which show why you're wrong. This board is not a playground. It's a place for members to express genuine concerns. The meaning of my statement was perfectly obvious, so stop being an ass or face a ban.

This has nothing to do with your statement "If the members aren't saying anything, and the mods aren't saying anything, then your ban is almost certainly justified".

Members cannot raise genuine concerns once banned. There is a good chance that regular members will not know that a member has been banned, so won't say anything. And mods rarely say anything due to the high levels of incompetence in the system already.

Status quo is established.

There is no review process. Impartial or otherwise.

"There is no review process. Impartial or otherwise."


This statement is untrue.

For example, I raised a thread about my last ban. It was filled with spam by other members and then closed. By you. You ended with a threat; "further offences in the near future will result in a significantly larger ban"

Perhaps you should add to the rules that raising queries about bans is a bannable offence.

This board is for raising genuine suggestions and concerns, not being an ass for the sake of it. You didn't even attempt to make a case for yourself, and were obviously more interested in being a troll than actually disputing your ban in any meaningful way.


Catchpa has a concern, and he has raised it in a critical yet civil manner. He is drawing our attention to an aspect of the board which he feels needs attention, and we will try to address the issue within the scope of the forum software and the practical realities of running this place. His queries are totally reasonable, and I welcome his input. Likewise, many others dispute bans without invoking any kind of rebuke from the moderating team, so that clearly isn't the issue here. I believe that the difference between their criticisms and yours is obvious to anyone, and that you're really just here to get a reaction.


In short, your intentions are clear, and I will not hesitate to ban you for abusing this board, which is here for the use of members who actually have something to say. Either contribute properly, or stay out.

If you haven't lurked enough to find out how to contact people despite a ban, you shuoldn't have made an account.

If you haven't lurked enough to find out how to contact people despite a ban, you shuoldn't have made an account.

Maybe you keep documents on your pc with contact details to your favorite FES mods, but the vast majority don't - and shouldn't be expected to either.

Being such an expert in law...

...is irrelevant to this thread.

Stop ignoring the bits of my posts which show why you're wrong. This board is not a playground. It's a place for members to express genuine concerns. The meaning of my statement was perfectly obvious, so stop being an ass or face a ban.

Nothing in your post showed why I was wrong. My post was genuine and sincere. Your inability to deal with it in a proper and mature way only highlights the problems you have here at TFES.

I've "made cases" on the previous occasions when I've been unjustly banned. It's the same old story: Wilmore/James/John Davis post something dumb and then as a consequence get shown why it's dumb. Rather than having to acknowledge this you (as a review panel collective) opt for the ban. There is no "review panel" other than...

"That guy was an ass to me"
"Yeah, he was. I was definitely molested by conspiracy goats. He had no right to challenge me."
"OK well I already banned him anyway"
"Oh good"

I'm not objecting to the fact that run your board like this. Hell it's your square of the precious internez and you are allowed to piss on who you like. But don't pretend you have any kind of virtuous and just system.

Quote from: cmdshft on April 29, 2010, 08:58:43 PM

How come when I was a mod these excuses wouldn't fly, but now they're being flung around left and right?

Fuck it, why do I bother...

cause you were a lousy mod who placed his ego in front of enforcing the rules.

Oh I get it. So if your ego and rule enforcement are equal (high, low, medium, hot, cold, etc), then it's ok.

Quote from: parsec on April 29, 2010, 09:04:09 PM

Quote from: cmdshft on April 29, 2010, 08:58:43 PM

How come when I was a mod these excuses wouldn't fly, but now they're being flung around left and right?

Fuck it, why do I bother...

cause you were a lousy mod who placed his ego in front of enforcing the rules.

Oh I get it. So if your ego and rule enforcement are equal (high, low, medium, hot, cold, etc), then it's ok.

No, I'm afraid you don't.

Quote from: Catchpa on April 30, 2010, 07:55:15 AM

Quote from: John Davis on April 30, 2010, 07:13:52 AM

They can email us or contact us via .net as much of the moderation team here is also moderators or members there.  Other options include contacting Daniel, contacting us via aim, facebook, and contacting us through other members.

Well, no. Not really. Being banned makes it impossible to contact anyone. You leave no contact deatils.

You should be allowed to protest your ban AND see the forum once banned. Even if it's not possible, do you agree it should be? It's possible to update the forum software, you know.

I agree it would be nice to have suggestions and concerns available to the banned in a perfect world but its not feasible software wise currently and it likely would be abused.

phpBB3 has this system. Who suggested using phpBB3 a while back? Me.

Also, as a former mod, Crustinator, you're pretty correct in your statements. I don't understand why Willmore and John are trying to cloud that fact. But seriously, let it the fuck go already. They aren't going to give in, no matter how right you may be.

Quote from: cmdshft on April 30, 2010, 05:36:46 PM

Quote from: parsec on April 29, 2010, 09:04:09 PM

Quote from: cmdshft on April 29, 2010, 08:58:43 PM

How come when I was a mod these excuses wouldn't fly, but now they're being flung around left and right?

Fuck it, why do I bother...

cause you were a lousy mod who placed his ego in front of enforcing the rules.

Oh I get it. So if your ego and rule enforcement are equal (high, low, medium, hot, cold, etc), then it's ok.

No, I'm afraid you don't.

Well, that seems to be how it's going. Oh well.

Quote from: Benjamin Franklin on April 30, 2010, 03:57:31 PM

If you haven't lurked enough to find out how to contact people despite a ban, you shuoldn't have made an account.

Maybe you keep documents on your pc with contact details to your favorite FES mods, but the vast majority don't - and shouldn't be expected to either.

The vast majority of non-newfags know any of the numerous ways to contact the moderators without the forums.
IRC, AIM, MSN, Yahoon, ICQ, e-mail, and Facebook, to name a few.

Yahoon

I don't know how to contact anyone through Yahoon.

Quote from: Catchpa on April 30, 2010, 04:10:08 PM

Quote from: Benjamin Franklin on April 30, 2010, 03:57:31 PM

If you haven't lurked enough to find out how to contact people despite a ban, you shuoldn't have made an account.

Maybe you keep documents on your pc with contact details to your favorite FES mods, but the vast majority don't - and shouldn't be expected to either.

The vast majority of non-newfags know any of the numerous ways to contact the moderators without the forums.
IRC, AIM, MSN, Yahoon, ICQ, e-mail, and Facebook, to name a few.

No they don't. I got more than 300 posts now, and I have yet to see any contact details for any mod. I don't know how to use IRC, Yahoo, ICQ and all FE'ers are too afraid to reveal their own identity, meaning Facebook is not an option either. That leaves me with MSN and Aim(e-mail is merged with both). At this point I still don't have the contact details.

Though you seem to have missed my point, I'll highlight it.

but the vast majority don't - and shouldn't be expected to either.

all FE'ers are too afraid to reveal their own identity, meaning Facebook is not an option either.

Wat? Try joining the FES facebook group, you'll see lots of FE'ers on there, not afraid to reveal their identities. Its not our fault you're too lazy to find ways to contact mods. Or you can take the initiative and note down a mod's email address now in case you are banned in the future, I'm sure I'm not the only one to have their email address listed on their profile.