The Compass Doesn't Lie

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Crustinator

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Re: The Compass Doesn't Lie
« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2010, 02:00:23 PM »
Not a single FEer is going to try and justify this field line problem?

No. Because it cannot be justified.

Re: The Compass Doesn't Lie
« Reply #61 on: June 30, 2010, 01:46:38 AM »
Remember that FAQ is clear: the disc has its poles on the top at the NMP and the other on the bottom down (as in towards your feet, not south) from the NMP.



We still have a problem here...

Re: The Compass Doesn't Lie
« Reply #62 on: June 30, 2010, 05:41:28 AM »
Remember that FAQ is clear: the disc has its poles on the top at the NMP and the other on the bottom down (as in towards your feet, not south) from the NMP.



We still have a problem here...
Please explain the reason for how you drew the flux lines. Surely you're not suggesting that the flux lines don't follow the surface. Look at the metal filing experiments from grade school of even bar magnets.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: The Compass Doesn't Lie
« Reply #63 on: June 30, 2010, 06:11:22 AM »
You seemed to be saying the major point of magnetism was at the center, meaning the entire surface isn't magnetic--just the one part of it.  How would you have drawn them?  All following the surface, and facing a point in the middle?  If so, I addressed why there are no magnets like that in the opening post.

Re: The Compass Doesn't Lie
« Reply #64 on: June 30, 2010, 06:34:49 AM »
You seemed to be saying the major point of magnetism was at the center, meaning the entire surface isn't magnetic--just the one part of it.  How would you have drawn them?  All following the surface, and facing a point in the middle?  If so, I addressed why there are no magnets like that in the opening post.
I am not saying that the major point of magnetism is at the center.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: The Compass Doesn't Lie
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2010, 06:59:14 AM »
Why do they suddenly bunch up at the edge?  You seem to be arguing for two magnets: one in the middle, and a reversed ring-shaped one of equal strength around the border.  Isn't their strength supposed to decrease with distance?

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12345SA

Re: The Compass Doesn't Lie
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2010, 07:10:29 AM »
http://www.compassdude.com/compass-declination.shtml

How about Magnetic Declination, as you travel long distances you need to adjust your Compass. With FET it seems that you propose a stationary center of the Disc as True N.

Re: The Compass Doesn't Lie
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2010, 08:39:32 AM »
Why do they suddenly bunch up at the edge?  You seem to be arguing for two magnets: one in the middle, and a reversed ring-shaped one of equal strength around the border.  Isn't their strength supposed to decrease with distance?
I don't know that the density changes. It's just an illustration. I guessed the LOFs would "cut the corner" but not intersect. LOFs density, what you called strength, will decrease with distance--unless influenced by an edge or point where they may 'increase in strength'. Consider the lightning rod. Please don't expect me to champion the FET here. I'm just trying to better explain what FET says about this situation. I hope that you can open your mind a bit and reread and reengage the FEers responses.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: The Compass Doesn't Lie
« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2010, 10:57:24 AM »
I don't know that the density changes.

It would have to, or else the FE magnetic south pole would be much weaker than the magnetic north one.  You'd need something in the middle causing the initial magnetic field and some very coincidental geologic formation around the edge to redirect some of it.  Even if that were somehow the case, it wouldn't be able to redirect everything, so the magnetic north pole/middle would always be measurably stronger than the "southern" edge.

You need to decide what's magnetic here.  Mostly uniformly across the mass (like the early examples), the middle (like my later one), or just key areas (center/edge, as yours appears)?  Only the third would even begin to work, but even that is rather coincidental and still doesn't match what we observe.

Re: The Compass Doesn't Lie
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2010, 11:52:35 AM »
I don't know that the density changes.

It would have to, or else the FE magnetic south pole would be much weaker than the magnetic north one.  You'd need something in the middle causing the initial magnetic field and some very coincidental geologic formation around the edge to redirect some of it.  Even if that were somehow the case, it wouldn't be able to redirect everything, so the magnetic north pole/middle would always be measurably stronger than the "southern" edge.

You need to decide what's magnetic here.  Mostly uniformly across the mass (like the early examples), the middle (like my later one), or just key areas (center/edge, as yours appears)?  Only the third would even begin to work, but even that is rather coincidental and still doesn't match what we observe.
AFAIK, FE has never resolved the numerous problems with the magnetic pole problem. I can only help based on what I see when searching or what they posted here. My observation is that you’ve confusing the Rim and the FE’s MSP. FET has to invoke the conspiracy to explain the existence of a MSP in Antarctica, for example. I really like the solution, but understand that it fails when it gets to matching the observations.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: The Compass Doesn't Lie
« Reply #70 on: July 07, 2010, 10:58:23 PM »
ok, I'm replying to clock tower here, as to not derail the other thread.

I don't see what your point is. The magnetic field created by the twin cores looks like Ellipsis' profile pic. Now I assume that the field is being created inside the core, unless they want to claim that it is created by magic. If the flat plain of the earth was in the exact middle, the LoF would all be verticle.  If the plane was above, the lines would still be more or less verticle, but only flat near the center. no matter what the set up is, you will never get a situation, where the line is flat on the equator, but verticle on the poles, because the geometry of the field isn't semetric. Its follows that weird elliptic like curve

Re: The Compass Doesn't Lie
« Reply #71 on: July 08, 2010, 07:17:31 AM »
ok, I'm replying to clock tower here, as to not derail the other thread.

I don't see what your point is. The magnetic field created by the twin cores looks like Ellipsis' profile pic. Now I assume that the field is being created inside the core, unless they want to claim that it is created by magic. If the flat plain of the earth was in the exact middle, the LoF would all be verticle.  If the plane was above, the lines would still be more or less verticle, but only flat near the center. no matter what the set up is, you will never get a situation, where the line is flat on the equator, but verticle on the poles, because the geometry of the field isn't semetric. Its follows that weird elliptic like curve
I really can't defend FET against your points. I agree that Maxwell's Equations predict only the correct general direction of the field so that simple compasses would work; however, the more complex compasses with the ability to detect the 3-D vector of the LoF would not match predictions. Quite simply, FET is wrong, but we all knew that, right? It's just not as wrong as we might think in that it has a theory to explain simple compass readings.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Thevoiceofreason

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  • Bendy Truth specialist
Re: The Compass Doesn't Lie
« Reply #72 on: July 08, 2010, 02:05:17 PM »
ok, I'm replying to clock tower here, as to not derail the other thread.

I don't see what your point is. The magnetic field created by the twin cores looks like Ellipsis' profile pic. Now I assume that the field is being created inside the core, unless they want to claim that it is created by magic. If the flat plain of the earth was in the exact middle, the LoF would all be verticle.  If the plane was above, the lines would still be more or less verticle, but only flat near the center. no matter what the set up is, you will never get a situation, where the line is flat on the equator, but verticle on the poles, because the geometry of the field isn't semetric. Its follows that weird elliptic like curve
I really can't defend FET against your points. I agree that Maxwell's Equations predict only the correct general direction of the field so that simple compasses would work; however, the more complex compasses with the ability to detect the 3-D vector of the LoF would not match predictions. Quite simply, FET is wrong, but we all knew that, right? It's just not as wrong as we might think in that it has a theory to explain simple compass readings.
ok. And that's what ellipses original point was. remember we were talking about 3D vectors, and JD said that FET had the correct predictions