Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.

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Thermal Detonator

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Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« on: April 25, 2010, 02:13:47 PM »
The concept of lunar libration proves that the Moon is not a flat metal disc, as some flat guys believe. When confronted with images showing this effect, the standard flat response is to say "that's an animated computer representation, not a real photo".
Well here's some photos showing the effect, taken by me from my back garden. I am of course still aware that the flat guys don't accept photos as evidence of anything, however now they can no longer say the only thing we show of libration is a computer animation.




These images show the Moon taken firstly on 29th January this year, and secondly on 24th April this year. The red arrow shows the position of the crater Endymion.
Note how much closer this crater is to the edge of the Moon in the first picture than it is in the second. This is because the second picture depicts the Moon tlited southwards, so we get a better view of its northern side.
These pictures were taken with exactly the same camera, from the same location, and are at the same magnification. Resolution of the image is roughly 40km per pixel (these have been blown up 200% to make it easier to see though.)
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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Lorddave

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2010, 02:25:34 PM »
I didn't think most FEers thought the moon was flat.  I thought they saw pretty much everything in the Universe as round except the Earth.
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Thermal Detonator

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2010, 02:28:38 PM »
I didn't think most FEers thought the moon was flat.  I thought they saw pretty much everything in the Universe as round except the Earth.

The Earth can't be round because we all see the same side of it, whether looking at it to our west or to our east. That's a physical impossibility if it's only 3000 miles away. Libration proves it cannot be flat, as Mad James (and therefore probably Itchy) believe.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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Lorddave

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2010, 02:47:28 PM »
I didn't think most FEers thought the moon was flat.  I thought they saw pretty much everything in the Universe as round except the Earth.

The Earth can't be round because we all see the same side of it, whether looking at it to our west or to our east. That's a physical impossibility if it's only 3000 miles away. Libration proves it cannot be flat, as Mad James (and therefore probably Itchy) believe.

You mean Moon.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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James

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2010, 02:57:39 PM »
The Earth can't be round because we all see the same side of it, whether looking at it to our west or to our east.

Correct.

As for the Moon, the current prevailing scientific view is that Lunar biomass migrates from location to location on the underside of the Moon on a seasonal basis, possibly in search of food or because of mating habits. Since man has never been to the Moon, it is difficult to know for sure.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Sliver

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2010, 03:00:34 PM »
The Earth can't be round because we all see the same side of it, whether looking at it to our west or to our east.

Correct.

As for the Moon, the current prevailing scientific view is that Lunar biomass migrates from location to location on the underside of the Moon on a seasonal basis, possibly in search of food or because of mating habits. Since man has never been to the Moon, it is difficult to know for sure.
You just pulled that out of your ass, didn't you?

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Lorddave

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2010, 03:05:46 PM »
The Earth can't be round because we all see the same side of it, whether looking at it to our west or to our east.

Correct.

As for the Moon, the current prevailing scientific view is that Lunar biomass migrates from location to location on the underside of the Moon on a seasonal basis, possibly in search of food or because of mating habits. Since man has never been to the Moon, it is difficult to know for sure.

....
The moon is alive...

And what does it mate with?  Has it shown any behaviors associated with life?  What does it eat?  Why haven't we noticed any kind of growth?  What about waste?

Come now, you really need to brush up on your definition of life.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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James

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2010, 03:08:21 PM »
The Moon mates with itself. It has shown bioluminescence, a trait which it shares with many terrestrial life forms.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Sliver

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2010, 03:32:52 PM »
The Moon mates with itself. It has shown bioluminescence, a trait which it shares with many terrestrial life forms.
That's not bioluminescence!  It's light from the sun reflecting off of the Earth.  Also, for reference, here's a picture of an island 32 miles wide as seen from a distance of 3000 miles.  How well can you see it?  I've circled the island and the altitude in red.


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James

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2010, 03:43:19 PM »
That's not bioluminescence!  It's light from the sun reflecting off of the Earth.  Also, for reference, here's a picture of an island 32 miles wide as seen from a distance of 3000 miles.  How well can you see it?  I've circled the island and the altitude in red.

The Moon does not reflect the Sun's light, that is preposterous. They are both discs, there is no conceivable configuration of Heavenly bodies which would allows this kind of reflection to occur. The Moon emits her own light, as everybody knows and has been proven by direct experiment.

Clearly the image you posted is a poor computer representation of a globularist's fantasies. I don't know what planet you are one, but perhaps it's not Earth! Not the same one I'm on anyway.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Sliver

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2010, 03:49:40 PM »
That's not bioluminescence!  It's light from the sun reflecting off of the Earth.  Also, for reference, here's a picture of an island 32 miles wide as seen from a distance of 3000 miles.  How well can you see it?  I've circled the island and the altitude in red.

The Moon does not reflect the Sun's light, that is preposterous. They are both discs, there is no conceivable configuration of Heavenly bodies which would allows this kind of reflection to occur. The Moon emits her own light, as everybody knows and has been proven by direct experiment.

Clearly the image you posted is a poor computer representation of a globularist's fantasies. I don't know what planet you are one, but perhaps it's not Earth! Not the same one I'm on anyway.
1.  Now you're just being an ass. 
2.  I didn't say the moon reflected the sun's light, I said the Earth reflected the sun's light. 
3.  I'd like to see your source for the claim that moon emits it's own light.
4.  I'm on Earth, but I'm not under the same delusions you are.
5.  Here's a model that works just fine. 
http://witchfulthinking.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/moon_phases_diagram1.jpg

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James

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2010, 03:56:09 PM »
2.  I didn't say the moon reflected the sun's light, I said the Earth reflected the sun's light. 

So we are in agreement that the Moon does not reflect the Sun's light?

3.  I'd like to see your source for the claim that moon emits it's own light.

I have two sources, the experiments of Dr Lardner, and the experiments of Charles Dickens.
Dr Lardner's experiments were published in Lardner, D. (1854-6) 'The Museum of Science and Art', London: Walton and Maberly, page 115.
Dickens' experiments were published in his periodical All the Year Round, and are cited in Rowbotham, S. B. (1881) 'Earth Not a Globe...', Third Edition, London: Simpkin, Marshall & Co., p. 144.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Sliver

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2010, 04:03:01 PM »
2.  I didn't say the moon reflected the sun's light, I said the Earth reflected the sun's light. 

So we are in agreement that the Moon does not reflect the Sun's light?

3.  I'd like to see your source for the claim that moon emits it's own light.

I have two sources, the experiments of Dr Lardner, and the experiments of Charles Dickens.
Dr Lardner's experiments were published in Lardner, D. (1854-6) 'The Museum of Science and Art', London: Walton and Maberly, page 115.
Dickens' experiments were published in his periodical All the Year Round, and are cited in Rowbotham, S. B. (1881) 'Earth Not a Globe...', Third Edition, London: Simpkin, Marshall & Co., p. 144.
I love how you change the subjects.  I corrected you on my original statement.  I never said the moon does not reflect the sun's light.  I said the Earth reflects the sun's light onto the moon.  I'd like to read your evidence, but you forgot the links.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2010, 04:08:05 PM »
I have strong experimental evidence the moon's light is independent of the Sun's light.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

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James

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2010, 04:08:13 PM »
2.  I didn't say the moon reflected the sun's light, I said the Earth reflected the sun's light. 

So we are in agreement that the Moon does not reflect the Sun's light?

3.  I'd like to see your source for the claim that moon emits it's own light.

I have two sources, the experiments of Dr Lardner, and the experiments of Charles Dickens.
Dr Lardner's experiments were published in Lardner, D. (1854-6) 'The Museum of Science and Art', London: Walton and Maberly, page 115.
Dickens' experiments were published in his periodical All the Year Round, and are cited in Rowbotham, S. B. (1881) 'Earth Not a Globe...', Third Edition, London: Simpkin, Marshall & Co., p. 144.
I love how you change the subjects.  I corrected you on my original statement.  I never said the moon does not reflect the sun's light.  I said the Earth reflects the sun's light onto the moon.  I'd like to read your evidence, but you forgot the links.

I did not change any subjects. You told me you never said that the Moon reflected the Sun's light, and you would have been right in that regard.

I regret to inform you that the vast majority of academic materials are not freely available on some website. Perhaps you can negotiate access to your local library or to a university campus?
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Sliver

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2010, 04:23:27 PM »
2.  I didn't say the moon reflected the sun's light, I said the Earth reflected the sun's light. 

So we are in agreement that the Moon does not reflect the Sun's light?

3.  I'd like to see your source for the claim that moon emits it's own light.

I have two sources, the experiments of Dr Lardner, and the experiments of Charles Dickens.
Dr Lardner's experiments were published in Lardner, D. (1854-6) 'The Museum of Science and Art', London: Walton and Maberly, page 115.
Dickens' experiments were published in his periodical All the Year Round, and are cited in Rowbotham, S. B. (1881) 'Earth Not a Globe...', Third Edition, London: Simpkin, Marshall & Co., p. 144.
I love how you change the subjects.  I corrected you on my original statement.  I never said the moon does not reflect the sun's light.  I said the Earth reflects the sun's light onto the moon.  I'd like to read your evidence, but you forgot the links.

I did not change any subjects. You told me you never said that the Moon reflected the Sun's light, and you would have been right in that regard.

I regret to inform you that the vast majority of academic materials are not freely available on some website. Perhaps you can negotiate access to your local library or to a university campus?
I figured, since the validity of the claims made by your FAQ come into question so often, you would have the evidence on hand. 

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James

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2010, 04:25:54 PM »
2.  I didn't say the moon reflected the sun's light, I said the Earth reflected the sun's light. 

So we are in agreement that the Moon does not reflect the Sun's light?

3.  I'd like to see your source for the claim that moon emits it's own light.

I have two sources, the experiments of Dr Lardner, and the experiments of Charles Dickens.
Dr Lardner's experiments were published in Lardner, D. (1854-6) 'The Museum of Science and Art', London: Walton and Maberly, page 115.
Dickens' experiments were published in his periodical All the Year Round, and are cited in Rowbotham, S. B. (1881) 'Earth Not a Globe...', Third Edition, London: Simpkin, Marshall & Co., p. 144.
I love how you change the subjects.  I corrected you on my original statement.  I never said the moon does not reflect the sun's light.  I said the Earth reflects the sun's light onto the moon.  I'd like to read your evidence, but you forgot the links.

I did not change any subjects. You told me you never said that the Moon reflected the Sun's light, and you would have been right in that regard.

I regret to inform you that the vast majority of academic materials are not freely available on some website. Perhaps you can negotiate access to your local library or to a university campus?
I figured, since the validity of the claims made by your FAQ come into question so often, you would have the evidence on hand. 

I do, it's in the two published works which I have cited. If you like I can describe the experiments to you?
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Sliver

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2010, 04:52:50 PM »
2.  I didn't say the moon reflected the sun's light, I said the Earth reflected the sun's light. 

So we are in agreement that the Moon does not reflect the Sun's light?

3.  I'd like to see your source for the claim that moon emits it's own light.

I have two sources, the experiments of Dr Lardner, and the experiments of Charles Dickens.
Dr Lardner's experiments were published in Lardner, D. (1854-6) 'The Museum of Science and Art', London: Walton and Maberly, page 115.
Dickens' experiments were published in his periodical All the Year Round, and are cited in Rowbotham, S. B. (1881) 'Earth Not a Globe...', Third Edition, London: Simpkin, Marshall & Co., p. 144.
I love how you change the subjects.  I corrected you on my original statement.  I never said the moon does not reflect the sun's light.  I said the Earth reflects the sun's light onto the moon.  I'd like to read your evidence, but you forgot the links.

I did not change any subjects. You told me you never said that the Moon reflected the Sun's light, and you would have been right in that regard.

I regret to inform you that the vast majority of academic materials are not freely available on some website. Perhaps you can negotiate access to your local library or to a university campus?
I figured, since the validity of the claims made by your FAQ come into question so often, you would have the evidence on hand. 

I do, it's in the two published works which I have cited. If you like I can describe the experiments to you?
I found the part in "Earth Not A Globe".
Quote from: Earth Not A Globe: page 144
produces a focus so brilliant and luminous that it is difficult to look upon it; yet there is no increase of temperature. In the focus of sun-light there is great heat but no light. In that of the moon's light there is great light but no heat. That the light of the moon is without heat, is fully verified by the following quotations:---

"If the most delicate thermometer be exposed to the full light of the moon, shining with its greatest lustre, the mercury is not elevated a hair's breadth; neither would it be if exposed to the focus of her rays concentrated by the most powerful lenses. This has been proved by actual experiment." 1

"This question has been submitted to the test of direct experiment. . . . The bulb of a thermometer sufficiently sensitive to render apparent a change of temperature amounting to the thousandth part of a degree, was placed in the focus of a concave reflector of vast dimensions, which, being directed to the moon, the lunar rays were collected with great power upon it. Not the slightest change, however, was produced in the thermometric column; proving that a concentration of rays sufficient to fuse gold if they proceeded from the sun, does not produce a change of temperature so great as the thousandth part of a degree when they proceed from the moon." 2

"The most delicate experiments have failed in detecting in the light of the moon either calorific or chemical properties. Though concentrated in the focus of the largest mirrors, it produces no sensible heating effect. To make this experiment, recourse has been had to a bent tube, the extremities of which terminate in two hollow globes filled with air, the one trans-parent, the other blackened, the middle space being occupied
in no way proves that the moon emits it's own light source.  Only that light from the moon produces no heat. 

Try again.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2010, 04:54:37 PM »
2.  I didn't say the moon reflected the sun's light, I said the Earth reflected the sun's light. 

So we are in agreement that the Moon does not reflect the Sun's light?

3.  I'd like to see your source for the claim that moon emits it's own light.

I have two sources, the experiments of Dr Lardner, and the experiments of Charles Dickens.
Dr Lardner's experiments were published in Lardner, D. (1854-6) 'The Museum of Science and Art', London: Walton and Maberly, page 115.
Dickens' experiments were published in his periodical All the Year Round, and are cited in Rowbotham, S. B. (1881) 'Earth Not a Globe...', Third Edition, London: Simpkin, Marshall & Co., p. 144.
I love how you change the subjects.  I corrected you on my original statement.  I never said the moon does not reflect the sun's light.  I said the Earth reflects the sun's light onto the moon.  I'd like to read your evidence, but you forgot the links.

I did not change any subjects. You told me you never said that the Moon reflected the Sun's light, and you would have been right in that regard.

I regret to inform you that the vast majority of academic materials are not freely available on some website. Perhaps you can negotiate access to your local library or to a university campus?
I figured, since the validity of the claims made by your FAQ come into question so often, you would have the evidence on hand. 

I do, it's in the two published works which I have cited. If you like I can describe the experiments to you?

I would suggest making a post in the Wiki about the topic and just linking to it whenever the subject comes up.

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Lorddave

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2010, 06:45:06 PM »
Give it up guys.

You can't stop James from saying what he'll say because he's saying it for the laughs.  He's only riling you up then laughing at his computer as he reads how frustrated you are.

If we were to ignore him, he'd go away.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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004forever

Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2010, 06:46:43 PM »
I have strong experimental evidence the moon's light is independent of the Sun's light.


No you don't.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2010, 06:48:21 PM »
I have strong experimental evidence the moon's light is independent of the Sun's light.


No you don't.
Actually, I do.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

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Lorddave

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2010, 06:52:20 PM »
I have strong experimental evidence the moon's light is independent of the Sun's light.


No you don't.
Actually, I do.

I've read your studies:
No you don't.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2010, 06:56:46 PM »
I have strong experimental evidence the moon's light is independent of the Sun's light.


No you don't.
Actually, I do.

I've read your studies:
No you don't.
Yes I have.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

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Lorddave

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2010, 06:59:09 PM »
I have strong experimental evidence the moon's light is independent of the Sun's light.


No you don't.
Actually, I do.

I've read your studies:
No you don't.
Yes I have.

All you've done is shown that plants grow a stiffener when exposed only to moonlight.  This tells us nothing about the makeup of moonlight or it's source.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2010, 07:01:35 PM »
I have strong experimental evidence the moon's light is independent of the Sun's light.


No you don't.
Actually, I do.

I've read your studies:
No you don't.
Yes I have.

All you've done is shown that plants grow a stiffener when exposed only to moonlight.  This tells us nothing about the makeup of moonlight or it's source.
The light is therefore of different character
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

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Lorddave

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2010, 07:09:44 PM »
I have strong experimental evidence the moon's light is independent of the Sun's light.


No you don't.
Actually, I do.

I've read your studies:
No you don't.
Yes I have.

All you've done is shown that plants grow a stiffener when exposed only to moonlight.  This tells us nothing about the makeup of moonlight or it's source.
The light is therefore of different character

Let me ask you this:
If I shined a light off a wall, would that light be of a different character than the light coming from the flashlight?
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2010, 07:11:11 PM »
No. Where's the plant data?
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

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Lorddave

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2010, 07:17:22 PM »
No. Where's the plant data?

Plant data is irrelevant in this instance since I'm just asking if light changes properties by reflection.

And, of course, you'd be wrong.

The light coming off the wall will not be the same wavelength of the original source since the wall absorbs the light and reflects only a specific range of the light back.  This is why we see color.  Things that reflect red wavelengths appear red.

Thus, I submit that you can not determine that the moon's light is different than the sun by your method because their properties would not be the same to a plant at night.

Try this:
Bounce sunlight off a wall and see if a plant reacts to it.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Proof the Moon is not a flat disc.
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2010, 07:18:19 PM »
Absorption and color has nothing to do with my experiment.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?